My Mercedes is smoking badly

[Calumcco]

This man is a Mercedes Benz and BMW specialist though, thats whats puzzling me, he even has a website!
I cant understand why he wouldnt fix the car for me, why would I buy a whole new engine that could be f*****? Where is the sense in that?

 

[mandrake]

The garage owner rang me today and said it was either the piston rings or valve guides or valve seals or both. He didnt seem to want to fix it as he didnt offer to fix it or give me a quote.

He said if he was me he would buy a second hand engine for a 300CE-24 and put a completely new engine in the car. He said if the car had done 50,000 miles he would put some new rings in but he semmed to be suggesting that as my car was approaching 200,000 miles it wouldn't be worth repairing.

But the problem is I dont know the first thing about engines and even if I found one and bought it it could have the same thing that is wrong with mine and I cant install an engine and how f****** much would that cost?

I am in a right mess at the moment, I am stranded

looks as if the guy dont want the job .as i said many years since i knew of that garage ,sorry about that . also as he hasent even looked at the car i dont think he should have tried to guess the problem not vey helpfull just checked your first post and to me i doubt very much the diagnosis he gave was correct anyway if it was piston rings any smoke would be ble not white and you would suffer from crank case pressurisation causing heavy engine breathing also mabey poor staring due to lack of compression .anyway you would have blue smoke and your exhaust would smell like a two stroke

 

[Calumcco]

I now plan to just carrying on driving the car until it can no longer go.. Its sad but what can I do? I cant afford to have a whole new engine put into the car and I cant afford a new car so what can I do?

 

[mandrake]

just an idea ,it may be a daft one but ,what is the general condition of the car and how much mot is left on it no i am not going to say bump it and claim on the insurance if your f/comp .... do you have an ebay account .if so i have just had a look and these mercs seem to be fetching good money ok there running and in good condition . have you thorght about putting it up for auction as spares or repair before it finaly gives up the ghost and then having to mabey pay for the privilidge of some scrappy to collect the car .i do belive somone out there will either need one for parts or even be willing to repair the car they are getting collectable if it sells for a few hundred quid you can always use that cash toward anothe car as i say just an option beats running it and it dieing miles from home and then the costs you may incure also the cops take a dim view of smokey cars

 

[Calumcco]

thats not a bad idea, I've got really expensive alloys on the car as well, so I could probably sell it for a grand

 

[mandrake]

you dont have the standard wheels do you ,or could you get hold of any cheap and sell the alloys seperate .anything to get you that bit extra cash will help .and if all goes well and you wanted another merc ,there a many w202 diesels out there for under a grand ,mine was only 800 quid theres a guy selling some crappy fiesta diesel near me ok its a year or so newer the my merc but the poor demented soul wants a grand for its worth 400 quid max in my oppinion

 

[Calumcco]

I am going to take it to one more garage for a final diagnosis! I'll try a garage in Luton tomorrow and see if they can shed any more light on the problem and after that I will make my decision.

 

[Some guy on the internet]

Is the Luton guy a MB specialist?

If not use the search button on here to find one. There are plenty in N. & W. London.

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/search.php?searchid=3052387

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/search.php?searchid=3052381

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/search.php?searchid=3052378

 

[mandrake]

Is the Luton guy a MB specialist?

If not use the search button on here to find one. There are plenty in N. & W. London.

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/search.php?searchid=3052387

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/search.php?searchid=3052381

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/search.php?searchid=3052378

seems as if the guy that i posted was a merc and bmw specialist ,and look what he said load of bull s..t. a diagnosis for an internal combustion engines problems are the same for a morris 1000 or a lambo as they all work the same always have always will (apart from honda they run backwards) , suck squeeze bang fart , why is it that some people think that a merc is something special and only merc specialsts know how they work and only specialists can repair them probaply thats why some shell out silly money for those mechanics ok there are specialised things to any engine some are more complicated than others.was it alfas or lancias that were well known for wrecking the engine if you started them with the steering on full lock do you understand that if this member decides to drive all the way to london the car may not make it now thats exelent advice is it not

 

[fozzymandeus]

Someone who says they are a Mercedes AND BMW specialist....

I'm always suspicious of that.

"I did my apprenticeship at a BMW dealer but my mate Dave had a C Class and we fixed it up... so they're all the same aren't they?"

No disrespect to any experienced mechanics who know the ins and outs of lots of types of cars but surely that makes you a "Highly Competent Generalist"?

What kind of condition is the car in apart from the oil and water mixing? Is the interior in good shape? Is it rusty? I wouldnt capitulate on it simply because it has a cylinder head issue that as yet is undiagnosed. Have you spent any money on the suspension recently? Is the gearbox knackered?

It's things like this that might inform whether you chop it in or whether you soldier on with it and fix it.

You might end up buying someone else's car that they are offloading because of an issue they don't want to deal with.

Oh, and, don't drive it any more until you've fixed this issue, it clearly needs imminent attention.

 

[Calumcco]

The interior is very nice, there is slight rust on the grill and apart from this I haven't had any other issues with it since I bought it in July 2009.

I really want someone to delve deeper and see what they can find as it might not be a major problem, it might just be a knackered piston ring and that wouldn't cost a great deal of money to repair, most people I speak to are assuming worst case scenario which is head gasket and a bill of thousands of pounds. If no-one will investigate further how can we know where the root of the problem stems from?

 

[Some guy on the internet]

seems as if the guy that i posted was a merc and bmw specialist ,and look what he said load of bull s..t. a diagnosis for an internal combustion engines problems are the same for a morris 1000 or a lambo as they all work the same always have always will (apart from honda they run backwards) , suck squeeze bang fart , why is it that some people think that a merc is something special and only merc specialsts know how they work and only specialists can repair them probaply thats why some shell out silly money for those mechanics ok there are specialised things to any engine some are more complicated than others.was it alfas or lancias that were well known for wrecking the engine if you started them with the steering on full lock do you understand that if this member decides to drive all the way to london the car may not make it now thats exelent advice is it not

You're wrong.

Anytime I can pick someone who specialises in something I'm going to always chose them over someone who is not a specialist, whether it's a mechanic, a doctor, a builder, a web site designer, a teacher or indeed anything.

A case in point is your MB & BMW 'specialist' who gives such wildly different remedies as replacing the rings or the valve stem seals, or both. That doesn't say to me the guy knows what he's talking about.

As to what they charge, I can find their hourly rate over the phone. Chances are if they specialise they know what they're doing, have done it before & can do it better, faster & cheaper than the general mechanic.

The OP said he was going to drive the car into the ground, so if that's the case driving it to an MB indy 10 or 15 miles away can be part of that process.

He still doesn't know what's wrong with his car & could be scrapping it over something that would be fixed for a couple of hundred quid.

 

[Calumcco]

Could it be something simple like oil and water mixing which would cause smoke and a burning smell? If so that wouldn't be very difficult to repair would it?

Are the rings and valves seals completely different problems then?

 

[mandrake]

The interior is very nice, there is slight rust on the grill and apart from this I haven't had any other issues with it since I bought it in July 2009.

I really want someone to delve deeper and see what they can find as it might not be a major problem, it might just be a knackered piston ring and that wouldn't cost a great deal of money to repair, most people I speak to are assuming worst case scenario which is head gasket and a bill of thousands of pounds. If no-one will investigate further how can we know where the root of the problem stems from?

no the head gasket is not the worst case by far the worst case mentiond would be piston rings as to do that job means engine out and a strip and rebuild it is a major job . but with the symptoms you give i am as shure as i can be that it is head related , any exesive wear in the bottom half of an engine ie rings bores pistons will show blue smoke and a loss of compression and crank case pressurisation showing up as heavy breathing from the oil filler when the cap is removed

 

[mandrake]

Could it be something simple like oil and water mixing which would cause smoke and a burning smell? If so that wouldn't be very difficult to repair would it?

Are the rings and valves seals completely different problems then?

basicaly the valve stem seals are in the head and they are there to form an oil tight seal between the valve and the guide that the valves fit in its not a total seal as some oil must be allowed to get between the valve stem and guide if not there would be the problem of friction and the valve would sieze in the guide . in time they wear and this allows exess oil to leak from the head through the valve guide and into the combustion chamber usual symptoms is a nice blast of blue smoke out of the exhaust ,usualy on start up when the car has been stood a while . piston rings are fitted into grooves in a piston the main reason is that the engine block is made of cast iron and the pistons are of different metal an alloy as such both these metals expand and contract at a diferent rate depending on the heat at any one time so to cut a long and more than likely boring story down to size if i can, there must be a gap between the piston and bore the rings are in there basicaly to take up this gap they are fitted in a way that when the piston expands or contracts you will have a tight enough fit of the piston in the bore to prevent the pressure build up on the compression stroke escaping past the piston there is also other jobs they do that is to keep the bores clean and stop oil from getting past the pison and into the combustion chambers thats about it basicaly i may have missed some things out if so its years since i was a mechanic also the explanation may be a bit weak as i was never too good at explaining things a lot better at doing than explaining ......... a head gasket s prime function is to provide a seal as all gasket do ,but between the head and cylinder block faces . there are oil galeries that provide lubrication to the moving parts and also to provide a certain cooling effect to the engine and a water jacket that circulates water round the engine as both the cooling system and the oil are circulated under pressure . the gasket provides a seal between the heads oil galleries and water jacket and the blocks ones , also it provides a seal between the combustion chamber in the head (some dont have a chamber in the head they have it in the piston top ) and the bores in the block so as to prevent leakage of compression .a head gasket when it fails can fail at difrent points so giving difering symptoms if you like it can fail between cylindres giving a misfire and low compresion in the ajoining cylinders . it can go between a cylinder and water jacket causing overheating pressurising of the cooling system and white smoke if you like out of the exhaust .it can fail between the oil galleries and water jacket hence you get mixing of oil and water. there are other ways of head gasket failing also giving other symptoms or if you lucky ,not, a combination of either or all as i say hope this helps explain some of your questions and as said earlier i am not the best at explaining things out and others may explain it better i hope you get the general idea of things

 

[Calumcco]

Would all engines have to be rubuilt if piston rings went? Or is it just specifically Merc/BMW's?

 

[Calumcco]

got my car back from the garage this morning, the man has recommended not to drive it and says he will look for an engine for me on the internet and fit it for me for £1000 roughly. That includes labour and VAT, he said the labour would take 10-12 hours and he charges £55 an hour. He made reference to the bores and said something about a 6 digit number on an engine or something like that...

 

[mandrake]

Would all engines have to be rubuilt if piston rings went? Or is it just specifically Merc/BMW's?

yes ,an internal combustion engine is an internal combustion engine wether it be fitted to a mini or a merc they are all the same exept one other engine that works different and thats a rotary ****el engine . but you have to take em to all bits to do the job then put em back together thats the intresting bit . opps just noticed i cannot put ****el engine .so i must say vankle ,****le , all the same anyway rotary engine

 

[mandrake]

got my car back from the garage this morning, the man has recommended not to drive it and says he will look for an engine for me on the internet and fit it for me for £1000 roughly. That includes labour and VAT, he said the labour would take 10-12 hours and he charges £55 an hour. He made reference to the bores and said something about a 6 digit number on an engine or something like that...

if you do go down this road .make shure that if he sources the engine and then fits it ,if the engine has any problem then he must fix it at his own costs including labour charges because for 1000 quid i would want an exelent engine , by the way is that a quote or an estimate he has given you .and you want it in wrighting

 

[Calumcco]

My Uncle has told me not to tamper with engine and to not touch it with a bargepole and said it isnt worth spending that much money on a 21 year old H Reg that isn't worth that much, I am gutted, such a terrible day...