My R170 has been sold - I am looking for some help/advice on a W203/204

[ARoosterinaRoadster]

Hi to you all out there. Yes,I very reluctantly sold my R170 SLK 230 prompted in the main by arthritis and a pending total replacement of my right knee,my left was totally replaced 12+ years ago.

I am pondering replacing my 51 plate BMW 330i Touring Automatic with a 2005/2006 W203 Estate Automatic and I am looking for some guidance on the whys and wherefores of the model and also a little insight into the W204.

I am especially interested/concerned about the seemingly total absence of an engine oil dip-stick and the reliance upon a warning light - what about bulb failure and the potential pending disaster of no oil whilst running at motorway speed.

What about steering linkages and suspension parts like road springs and shock absorbers !!

 

[sonic]

I am perhaps not the right person to answer your questions having never owned a C class. But we have owned 6 MB's in the last 20 years, SLK's, CLK's, & a E class. We keep then for 100K miles plus.
I have had a couple with no dipstick but no problem with the warning display, in fact I have never put oil into a MB engine between services.
Headlight bulbs on a SLK after 80K miles, is the only bulb failure.
One shock absorber on a CLK at about 100K miles, & front suspension bushes on the same car at about 115K miles.
If you are worried about component failures I would suggest you buy newer than 15 years old.

 

[ARoosterinaRoadster]

I am perhaps not the right person to answer your questions having never owned a C class. But we have owned 6 MB's in the last 20 years, SLK's, CLK's, & a E class. We keep then for 100K miles plus.
I have had a couple with no dipstick but no problem with the warning display, in fact I have never put oil into a MB engine between services.
Headlight bulbs on a SLK after 80K miles, is the only bulb failure.
One shock absorber on a CLK at about 100K miles, & front suspension bushes on the same car at about 115K miles.
If you are worried about component failures I would suggest you buy newer than 15 years old.

Hi sonic. I am not so worried about component failure as even Rolls Royce and Bentley suffer with those issues on occasions.
I am more concerned about know manufacturing failures and the need for certain components being eaten like feeding Smarties to a 6 year old.

Fully stamped Service history with supporting invoices for work that has been carried out and either MB or recommended Indy and or MB Specialists having carried out the work is the only options that I would consider.

I am pondering a 2006 (55 plate) C class 2.1 C220 CDI Avantgarde SE Estate which seemingly ticks all of the boxes and with a fully stamped service book at 99,000 miles - the car has had 5 previous owners. The MoT history is one of the cleanest that I have ever seen and I can only put that down to regular and correct servicing before things start final failures and taking other components with them.
I have arranged to go and see /drive it on Thursday.

 

[Chrishazle]

For an S203 you're looking at the right age range as prior to 2003/4 they were not galvanised and did not have nano paint. My first MB was a 2001 S203, and after much research I went for the c270Cdi (which original road testers said was the best engine in the range) in Elegance trim as it had enough but not too many toys to go wrong, and did not have the stiffer suspension of the Avantgard. However, budget permitting I'd look at the S204 as the interior is much nicer (which is why I've had one for 8 1/2 years now). I went for the c220Cdi Elegance (roughly the same power as the C270), but the one I accidentally found had a few toys - Comand NTG4, full leather interior, heated front seats, electric tailgate. Beware the very early ones with Comand - my July 2008 had a small nav partition on the satnav so I could only install updates to 2014-15, cost £500 at comand.co.,uk to correct that and get the latest maps installed. At the same time I had front parking sensors and a reversing camera installed, really nice as I've always had problems deciding where the front of the car is when parking, wish I'd also had the rear parking sensors installed at the same time! I also have linguatronic but find it useless, I have the telephony pre-install but can't use the UHI in the centre arm rest (even with a bluetooth adapter rather than a phone specific adapter) with our Samsung A10's, but they do link to Comand quite happily. Also beware facelift S204's (MY 2011) with Comand NTG 4.5 - you need a PIN from MB specific to the car (cost about £50) as well as the DVD's to update the maps, whereas NTG4 you can use "second user" DVD's much cheaper!!

Edit - just seen what you posted while I was typing! Original road test reports on the 203 said the 220Cdi was gutless!

 

[grahamcol]

Really sorry you've had to part with the SLK. However 203's and 204's are nice cars, although l think you'll find performance of the 220 diesel somewhat lack lustre after the 230k petrol. I have the 220 diesel in my CLK (203 based coupe) and it's very economical and I'd describe performance as adequate rather than fast. But there again l do have an SLK230k as well. I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of dipstick as you get a text display on the dash and not just a warning light, at least that's what l understand (mine's never come up yet). Buy wisely and l think you'll be OK.

 

[ARoosterinaRoadster]

For an S203 you're looking at the right age range as prior to 2003/4 they were not galvanised and did not have nano paint. My first MB was a 2001 S203, and after much research I went for the c270Cdi (which original road testers said was the best engine in the range) in Elegance trim as it had enough but not too many toys to go wrong, and did not have the stiffer suspension of the Avantgard. However, budget permitting I'd look at the S204 as the interior is much nicer (which is why I've had one for 8 1/2 years now). I went for the c220Cdi Elegance (roughly the same power as the C270), but the one I accidentally found had a few toys - Comand NTG4, full leather interior, heated front seats, electric tailgate. Beware the very early ones with Comand - my July 2008 had a small nav partition on the satnav so I could only install updates to 2014-15, cost £500 at comand.co.,uk to correct that and get the latest maps installed. At the same time I had front parking sensors and a reversing camera installed, really nice as I've always had problems deciding where the front of the car is when parking, wish I'd also had the rear parking sensors installed at the same time! I also have linguatronic but find it useless, I have the telephony pre-install but can't use the UHI in the centre arm rest (even with a bluetooth adapter rather than a phone specific adapter) with our Samsung A10's, but they do link to Comand quite happily. Also beware facelift S204's (MY 2011) with Comand NTG 4.5 - you need a PIN from MB specific to the car (cost about £50) as well as the DVD's to update the maps, whereas NTG4 you can use "second user" DVD's much cheaper!!

Edit - just seen what you posted while I was typing! Original road test reports on the 203 said the 220Cdi was gutless!

Hi Chris. Thank you for your reply and the appropriate warnings !!

What was the car pulling that would result in a 'gutless remark' ! surely the 2.1 litre engine would be as good and frisky as that of a Volvo D5 Geartronic.

The only way I could really go for a W204 Auto Estate is by buying one with stupid mileage at sensible money or a really low mileage one for insane money which I don't possess.

 

[ARoosterinaRoadster]

Really sorry you've had to part with the SLK. However 203's and 204's are nice cars, although l think you'll find performance of the 220 diesel somewhat lack lustre after the 230k petrol. I have the 220 diesel in my CLK (203 based coupe) and it's very economical and I'd describe performance as adequate rather than fast. But there again l do have an SLK230k as well. I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of dipstick as you get a text display on the dash and not just a warning light, at least that's what l understand (mine's never come up yet). Buy wisely and l think you'll be OK.

Thank you Graham. What would be a likely C Class petrol Auto Estate instead of the C220 CDI Auto Estate.
I currently also run a 51 plate BMW 330i touring Auto which is a bit of a diplomatic beast.

 

[sonic]

I think Chrishazle has answered your questions, I always buy second hand with full MBSH, & that has served me well. I have never had an advisory on any of my MB MOT's.
Looking at Chrishazle's history mine was similar starting with a 2001 CLK200K then moving onto a CLK270CDI, I did over 115K miles in both of those cars. Then onto a E350CDI which has been an outstanding car.
Good luck with your search.

 

[grahamcol]

Thank you Graham. What would be a likely C Class petrol Auto Estate instead of the C220 CDI Auto Estate.
I currently also run a 51 plate BMW 330i touring Auto which is a bit of a diplomatic beast.

 

[grahamcol]

Thank you Graham. What would be a likely C Class petrol Auto Estate instead of the C220 CDI Auto Estate.
I currently also run a 51 plate BMW 330i touring Auto which is a bit of a diplomatic beast.

 

[grahamcol]

Well I'm not sure here really. You've got to be careful with some of the petrol engines of this era. Beware of chocolate timing gears etc. The 220 CDI diesel is one of the best reliability wise, but like l said, isn't the most lively in my opinion. But l do have the SLK 230k which goes like the proverbial rocket as you must know and l can't help but compare.

 

[grahamcol]

Thank you Graham. What would be a likely C Class petrol Auto Estate instead of the C220 CDI Auto Estate.
I currently also run a 51 plate BMW 330i touring Auto which is a bit of a diplomatic beast.

See my earlier reply. For some reason your original post wasn't quoted.

 

[ARoosterinaRoadster]

See my earlier reply. For some reason your original post wasn't quoted.

Hi again Graham. Yes I would have another R170 SLK 230 Auto in a heart beat but for the issues that surround getting out of one with the rapidly failing right knee and the arthritis in my hips and lower back.
I had invested a fair bit of time and money in getting mine sorted to my liking in the 18+ months that I had it.
It was sold to a chap from the Skegness area that came over to view and drive the car,he paid me and drove it back home and returned a few days later by train for his car which had been left outside of my bungalow.

 

[Chrishazle]

Hi Chris. Thank you for your reply and the appropriate warnings !!
What was the car pulling that would result in a 'gutless remark' ! surely the 2.1 litre engine would be as good and frisky as that of a Volvo D5 Geartronic.

You're asking me to dig into 12 year old memories of an internet search for information on the W/S203 - with me having had a bus pass for quite a few years and about to enter 3 yearly renewal of driving licence.... Our village garage suddenly had an S203 Classic on his forecourt for not a lot of money, that started me looking and researching, I found a few road tests of the W203 when it first came out (1999/2000?) which said the 220Cdi was gutless and the best engine in the range was the C270Cdi. It also flagged that Classic was very basic trim and that Avantgard had lowered and firmer suspension (as well as more toys) so I looked for an S203 c270Cdi Elegance, found one (2001)and really liked it. Useless in any snow without winter tyres, had looked at the 204 when it came out and decided I'd swop "once they get down to my price range" not expecting that for a while, and bumped into our current car when killing time at our local MB main agent while they were re-installing my summer tyres. Saw the colour first, read the spec and expected it to be +/-£20K, saw the price(4 years old, 60k miles, £15.5k!) - Mr Salesman talk to me, give me a price to swop!

 

[daibevan]

I love my W203. 5 years now and not missed a beat. Still like brand new inside. If you get one with the M271 engine beware of the stretched chain/worn timing. Both my front springs broke at 45000 and 6000 miles. Common on these and I change my rear springs due to rust after 14 years (sea side car). Rear suspension is now making a few noises, but what do you expect in an old car. I intend to sort this and keep her forever,

 

[umblecumbuz]

To answer part of your question, both the 203 and 204 models have an engine dipstick.
Possibly you're getting confused with the gearbox, which in some 203's did have a dipstick, and in others, as in the 204's, no dipstick was provided. However, a gearbox dipstick can be retro installed easily, as the tube for such is already there.
With the 5g box, which both these models use (except in the higher engine sizes), the tube also acts as the atf filler tube.

The dashboard display will show you the engine oil level in either model as an additional quick check, but having had several of both models I rarely used this facility. I loved my 203's and the 270cdi was by far the best. Economy was amazing, and I regularly saw mid 60's mpg! My 204 Estate was slightly more responsive to steering inputs, and I thoroughly enjoy its ownership.
By choice I would plump for a pristine post 2004 face-lit model 203. terrific car i wish I had kept.

All mine were diesels.

 

[ARoosterinaRoadster]

To answer part of your question, both the 203 and 204 models have an engine dipstick.
Possibly you're getting confused with the gearbox, which in some 203's did have a dipstick, and in others, as in the 204's, no dipstick was provided. However, a gearbox dipstick can be retro installed easily, as the tube for such is already there.
With the 5g box, which both these models use (except in the higher engine sizes), the tube also acts as the atf filler tube.

The dashboard display will show you the engine oil level in either model as an additional quick check, but having had several of both models I rarely used this facility. I loved my 203's and the 270cdi was by far the best. Economy was amazing, and I regularly saw mid 60's mpg! My 204 Estate was slightly more responsive to steering inputs, and I thoroughly enjoy its ownership.
By choice I would plump for a pristine post 2004 face-lit model 203. terrific car i wish I had kept.

All mine were diesels.

Hi umb' If your reply was for me then I can only say that I got my info about the engine oil dipstick not being present from the internet. I was previously warned about the absence of it when looking for info on the W204.
I am in a real dilemma at present being 75 years young and on fixed income with my State Pension (NOT a Benefit as the government likes to call it) and with a series of small annuities. The dilemma is do I retain my 51 plate BMW 330i Touring Auto that now has 137,000 miles and still goes like stink and produces reasonable fuel figures both local driving and when at motorway speeds when needed or do I go into unknow territory and go for the 2006 W203 2.2 C220 CDI Auto Estate with 96,000 miles on the clock.

Of the W203 & the W204 I much prefer the frontal treatment of the W203 as it gives a less brutal/aggressive look to the car.

 

[umblecumbuz]

At the risk of being disbarred for all time from this excellent forum and being banished to the dark side, I would stick with the devil I know.

The basic question must be, why change?
Is it because your Beemer is getting tired (translated as 'you're getting tired of your Beemer'), or is it just the natural 'grass is greener' curiosity?
A really good 203 is an excellent long-life car - and it seems that you've located one already - but so is a Beemer 330.

 

[ARoosterinaRoadster]

At the risk of being disbarred for all time from this excellent forum and being banished to the dark side, I would stick with the devil I know.

The basic question must be, why change?
Is it because your Beemer is getting tired (translated as 'you're getting tired of your Beemer'), or is it just the natural 'grass is greener' curiosity?
A really good 203 is an excellent long-life car - and it seems that you've located one already - but so is a Beemer 330.

Hi again Umble. On the basis of your comments/observations my 330i Touring is not getting tired nor am I becoming tired of it.
I will contact the seller of the MB W203 as planned and if the car is ready for sale I will go down and view/drive it.

I have received a video of the car showing the 'age related' marks and a couple of really small dings from shopping trolleys and the like that will be addressed by the 'Dent Man' on Wednesday.

This is the car and even without the Dent Mans magic it looks 'A' OK for a 14 year old car with an MoT history showing 99,000 miles.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Beautiful colour. That is the facelift model, with the much-favoured wheels. Worth checking for chassis rust, even though the post-2004 models were made with better rust protection. Examine the small area of the wheel arches just forward of the rear wheels - they often show corrosion.
Check that the heater/aircon works through all its cycles, as this is sometimes a hiccup. Examine front tyre wear patterns, as these models are known for uneven wear across the tread. Make sure that the steering does not pull strongly to the left, which is sometimes a characteristic of cars with neglected proper alignment. And obviously give the usual general checks for any car, including gearbox atf change history. At that mileage, it should have been changed at least twice, including the internal gearbox filter. The engine temperature should show 85 degrees on the dashboard readout. Significantly lower than that, and the thermostat will be the culprit. A code reader will probably show a few minor faults, which is normal, but worth scanning the car, to check for anything major or historical.
You can also, as you probably know, get a read-out of its Mot history and any outstanding recalls from the Gov't site.
If it's a good one, then you are in for a treat. They really are great Mercs. To my mind they represent the last of the truly elegant Mercedes era.
Reading what I've just written, it looks as though I'm trying to sell you the car!