Not Merc, just scary

jberks

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For those with doors that use the yale style keys (upvc 'euro locks' etc) look up "lock bumping" on youtube.

The really scary part is that there's no trace, it looks like you've not locked the door and your insurance co refuses to pay out. According to a mate, last year 1 in 10 break ins were done this way. This year its closer to 8 out of 10!

I've just ordered one of these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360175621627&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Not entirely foolproof either (one guy in Russia has cracked it) but they'd need a very special key that your average muppet won't be able to get, so its still a lot better than what most of us have at the moment.
 

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Is this saying that you can use the wrong key and bump it with the hammer and the eurolock will open
 
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jberks

jberks

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Is this saying that you can use the wrong key and bump it with the hammer and the eurolock will open

Yes.
It has to be a specially made key, but they won't be hard to come by if you go to the right pubs.....
 

The Hooded Claw

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Of Course you could always do what I do ..........Leave a key (the Wrong key) in the lock on the INSIDE of the door (With the Barrel half turned) then they can't get ANY KEY in from the outside coz the barrell aint in line!!!!!!!!
 

Jay Gee

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Of Course you could always do what I do ..........Leave a key (the Wrong key) in the lock on the INSIDE of the door (With the Barrel half turned) then they can't get ANY KEY in from the outside coz the barrell aint in line!!!!!!!!

That's good advice---if you're at home with a baseball bat (but don't forget the ball!). What if you're on holiday?
 

Phil D

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Of Course you could always do what I do ..........Leave a key (the Wrong key) in the lock on the INSIDE of the door (With the Barrel half turned) then they can't get ANY KEY in from the outside coz the barrell aint in line!!!!!!!!

on the other hand some of us get out from time to time..............:rolleyes:
 

davidsl500

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Whenever I buy a security device I always pay cash over the counter and if they really need an address on the receipt then they get and old one from 20 years ago.

Maybe its the industry that I work in that makes me look at every angle and question everything !

Do I want to buy a security lock off ebay from someone I dont know who has my address details, the type of lock and the key code - err, not me !!
 
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jberks

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Whenever I buy a security device I always pay cash over the counter and if they really need an address on the receipt then they get and old one from 20 years ago.

Maybe its the industry that I work in that makes me look at every angle and question everything !

Do I want to buy a security lock off ebay from someone I dont know who has my address details, the type of lock and the key code - err, not me !!

Its a very valid point and one I did consider, but apart from the fact that I couldn't find an agent for this locally and they're 30% cheaper than the traditional routes I did find, I figure that they're 200 miles from me so unless they're running a national burglar info scheme its unlikely that they have any contact with people up here. Secondly, it wouldn't be difficult to trace back to them if anything happened given the high security and obscure nature of the product, and thirdly, whilst its true I gave them an address, they don't know that its for that address. It's enough maybes for me to be relaxed about it, though with hindsight, perhaps it would have been better to get a relative to order on my behalf.

Naive perhaps but I work on the basis that most people are basically honest. After all, a locksmith has access to hundreds of properties and looking at some of the lock picking things on youtube it's surprisingly easy to get past most locks so to be fair, someone sophisticated enough to have such a setup is probably smart enough to be able to pick a lock anyway.

A tiny fraction of burglaries will be done with info like this. Possibly none. It happens on the Bill but I suspect in reality its pretty rare and the risky nature of such a venture makes it just not worth it. After all, if you came back and found your house burgled with no evident sign of a break in and you'd recently had a lock changed, what are you going to tell the police?. Ok, 1 they may get away with but the 2nd and they're going to get a knock on the door?

If you think of the number of people that get access to house keys, builders, cleaners, decorators etc, any one could copy a key, but they don't. How many call outs does a locksmith do on a daily basis - and he gets to recky the place first too.

I agree with and aplaud your caution but you can't protect against everything and sometimes you just have to trust. After all, I ordered over the phone so he has my credit card details too...!
 

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What's all this about locking doors? :)

I'll probably bite me sometime, but I really couldn't be doing with it.
 

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As I said JB, I tend to be over cautious these days where security is concerned! With the number of scams operating on Ebay, where the seller can be quite anonymous, I am naturally cautious.

Just to take a hypothetical example. Advertise a high security product on Ebay, incorporate a video in the advert to scare you into buying the product, take a copy of the address and key codes of all those that buy the product and store them away for a couple of years or so…Actually, you don’t need the key codes, just advertise the lock sets with 3 keys when there should be 4 and keep one for later use. After a few years and a couple of thousand sales, shut the business down, compile the address lists into areas and take short holidays in the most “lucrative” areas… (google map with streetview will help here!). Of course the police may eventually track the source back – if people have kept the purchase record from several years ago. This will lead them to a rented flat where countless other scams were operated from….

I wonder if there is a book and film in that !

Possibly far fetched I know, but criminals are getting smart out there! I can recount quite a few stories from the last 10-12 years of being in business where people have been scammed or unaware they were about to be!
 

lulu

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Whenever I buy a security device I always pay cash over the counter and if they really need an address on the receipt then they get and old one from 20 years ago.

Maybe its the industry that I work in that makes me look at every angle and question everything !

Do I want to buy a security lock off ebay from someone I dont know who has my address details, the type of lock and the key code - err, not me !!

Those particular locks have the key code security card and keys sealed in a tamper proof bag with the lock. You'll also need the key card to get replacement or additional keys cut.
 

davidsl500

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Those particular locks have the key code security card and keys sealed in a tamper proof bag with the lock. You'll also need the key card to get replacement or additional keys cut.

Yes, I am aware of that. You do assume that the customer that buys the product is also aware that they come like this though ! You can, of course, buy tamper proof bags online easily (around 20p each in 500's)and repackage the lock less one key or after a spare has been cut using the key card..
 
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jberks

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Well, to be fair, I also ordered extra keys so he had to open it all up before I got it so, yes, if he were dodgy he could make and extra key and let himself into my house.

On the other side, if that is the case, at least there's only one bloke running around with my key now, rather than thousands of druggies who, since this technique was discovered, now have keys for pretty much everyone elses. Actually, given how many houses are now effectively wide open, you'd have to ask, why would he bother? He could simply go to a nice area and help himself.

As I said, it wasn't the add with the 'scary video' that convinced me. In fact I hadn't thought about it. It was the conversation a friend of mine had with his neighbourhood bobbie. If they've gone from a rariity to a majority in a year in Huddersfield then ,now the theives know about this technique, there's going to be an rash of these break ins everywhere. Allegedly the UK authorities want to keep it quiet so they don't publicise the technique, but in reality the only people who don't know about it are the public. The theieves already know. The lock snapping technique I was told about personally a year ago by another copper doing his crime prevention bit.

So, whether you buy for cash locally or over ebay the facts are still the same. If you have a conventional euro or yale lock, it will take your average dumb, druggie thief less than 10 seconds to get into your house, with no noise or commotion. No going equipped with a jemmy and a screwdriver. No broken glass, no jumping fences. Just pop in a key and open the door. Any passer by with see them opening the door with a key so not question it and when you put in your insurance claim, if your policy requires forced entry, you've got a fight on your hands. Ok, you'll never protect from the clever or cunning thieves but they're 1 in a 10000. The other 9999 are morons, and we can beat them.

So, if you've got one of these locks, change it.
 

Dosco

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I believe these locks have been around for some time as I had something akin to this fitted several years ago - using the Ebay advert as a reference here - and I think they were of American parentage. At the time they were recommended by a local Alarm company I used, quite expensive if memory serves me well but needed to lock up the premises in an area which made Dodge City look like a camp for vestal virgins.

However it is a timely reminder and as JBerks says get them either Ebay or your local locksmiths your choice.
 

Rory

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Allegedly the UK authorities want to keep it quiet so they don't publicise the technique, but in reality the only people who don't know about it are the public.

It's not that much of a secret - It was shown on BBC Watchdog a couple of years ago.
 

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It's not that much of a secret - It was shown on BBC Watchdog a couple of years ago.

Just shows what a sheltered life that I lead, Mind you I do not have any of these locks on the front of my house, I do on the rear and workshops, but these are not accessible from the front and there is no access at the rear
 
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jberks

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It's not that much of a secret - It was shown on BBC Watchdog a couple of years ago.

Didn't see it myself (can't stand that Scottish DJ muppet who presents it) but given how serious it is. Just thing how many houses have upvc doors with these locks. I personally have 4 of these locks around my house. Any one of them would give access to the whole place and burglar alarm or not,once they're in, they'll leave with something. If the only reference to them being about as much use as sellotape that we can come up with is a short one-off watchdog report from 2 years ago, it's not a lot and not exactly government or police sponsored. I'm fairly clued up about most things and this came as a complete surprise to me.
I personally think it's important enough for a proper publicity campaign. In fact, I had an extension done last year and the British Standard multipoint locking doors that were installed, have what turns out to be virtually useless locks installed. Doesn't say much about british standards.
 


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