Oil quality checker in the engine

[mattkh]

I understand that some Mercs have a gadget fitted into the engine that checks the quality of the engine oil.
Any idea where it is and how it works..?

 

[Blobcat]

It was part of the ASSYST variable servicing system, depending upon usage you could (I did regularly) get >18K between services on my W210.

Understanding the Mercedes-Benz Active Service System (ASSYST, ASSYST PLUS, ASSYST Fixed Intervals) Service Indicator Lights | YourMechanic Advice

Car symbols, or dashboard lights, are a car service reminder. The Mercedes-Benz Active Service System indicates when and what service your car needs.

www.yourmechanic.com

 

[LostKiwi]

Saab also used an oil monitoring system for their services on the 9-3 model (and probably others). I believe it works by measuring resistance of the oil to measure contaminants.

 

[Jim2]

Well my Eclass 220 regularly tells me when an oil is due, every 365 days, and it will start the reminders end of Jan. Regardless of the condition....

 

[Blobcat]

Well my Eclass 220 regularly tells me when an oil is due, every 365 days, and it will start the reminders end of Jan. Regardless of the condition....

That's because Mercedes realised they were missing out on revenue... So they changed from variable to fixed annual or 15.5k miles

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Well I’ve declared my own time based service regime, we can hardly save the planet by mandatory annual oil and filter changes before they are due my MB will have only covered 6k miles biannually, if that, and synthetic oil can certainly last twice that long.
To BMWs credit they use a condition based service regime if you don’t do the miles the car goes in for an oil change biannually, their on board service indicator gives up to date wear information on brake condition, oil condition and brake fluid (biannual change) - full marks for that. The only downside is that the dealer service advisors are trained to upsell as much as possible which is a bit of an irritation I can see myself using the local specialist before long as this is really tedious.

 

[Wighty]

I change my oil weekly even when it doesn’t need it . Better safe than sorry

 

[Botus]

there are various systems, the level of sophistication used varies. I don't have info on the Merc ideas

some literally do some basic maths, on distance, on hours of use, temps reached for what duration etc. I thought I read VW have a basic optical thing in the sump for their long service interval models,

but the basic ones is time and distance, hence no need for a sensor - the idea is to market extended service intervals and then get you back in early to spend more

note: modern oil is full of a new breed of delicate, expensive, built in time to fail additives - they claim are less likely to impact the performance of emission control systems - what they mean is if you don't change it within 2 years it self destructs and they can sell an new car

research low SAPS oils - it means falls to bits and destroys the engine, vs long lasting durable high end oils, with the new stuff dropping from 800 to 200 whatsevers, that protect the components under extreme abuse - and just in case you were clever enough to know this and try to look after your modern engine using high SAPS oils they now redesigned the engines... so high SAPS will damage a low SAPS spec engine and vice versa - exactly how not sure - guess tweaks to material specs and clearances - so buying the oil spec in the owners manual is no longer a recco, but absolutely vital

hard to believe but ford now use a wet belt to drive the camshaft - it runs in the hot engine oil and is designed to self destruct with old oil - see alongside above - a nice belt and braces approach to car sales

 

[DMK/Happy]

Well I’ve declared my own time based service regime, we can hardly save the planet by mandatory annual oil and filter changes before they are due my MB will have only covered 6k miles biannually, if that, and synthetic oil can certainly last twice that long.
To BMWs credit they use a condition based service regime if you don’t do the miles the car goes in for an oil change biannually, their on board service indicator gives up to date wear information on brake condition, oil condition and brake fluid (biannual change) - full marks for that. The only downside is that the dealer service advisors are trained to upsell as much as possible which is a bit of an irritation I can see myself using the local specialist before long as this is really tedious.

Makes sound sense.

 

[Gazwould]

there are various systems, the level of sophistication used varies. I don't have info on the Merc ideas

some literally do some basic maths, on distance, on hours of use, temps reached for what duration etc. I thought I read VW have a basic optical thing in the sump for their long service interval models,

but the basic ones is time and distance, hence no need for a sensor - the idea is to market extended service intervals and then get you back in early to spend more

note: modern oil is full of a new breed of delicate, expensive, built in time to fail additives - they claim are less likely to impact the performance of emission control systems - what they mean is if you don't change it within 2 years it self destructs and they can sell an new car

research low SAPS oils - it means falls to bits and destroys the engine, vs long lasting durable high end oils, with the new stuff dropping from 800 to 200 whatsevers, that protect the components under extreme abuse - and just in case you were clever enough to know this and try to look after your modern engine using high SAPS oils they now redesigned the engines... so high SAPS will damage a low SAPS spec engine and vice versa - exactly how not sure - guess tweaks to material specs and clearances - so buying the oil spec in the owners manual is no longer a recco, but absolutely vital

hard to believe but ford now use a wet belt to drive the camshaft - it runs in the hot engine oil and is designed to self destruct with old oil - see alongside above - a nice belt and braces approach to car sales

Including this one , love hearing these engine oil mystery adventures .

 

[Botus]

how much confusion do we want ? this is the NEW simple list so its straightforward


A1/B1 For use in gasoline and light duty diesel engines
capable of using low friction, low viscosity, and
low HT/HS shear (2.9 to 3.5cP) oils. A fuel
economy specification, this oil may not be able
to be used in all engines.

A3/B3 Stable, stay in grade oil intended for use in
high performance gasoline and diesel engines
or extended drain intervals.

A3/B4 For use in direct injection diesel engines where
special oils may be required, but also suitable
for applications described under A3/B3.

A5/B5 Similar to A3/B3 but for engines capable of
using low friction, low viscosity and low HT/HS
oils. May be unsuitable for use in some engines.

C1 Stable, stay in grade oil of A5/B5 performance
level and low SAPS (Sulphated Ash 0.5%).
These oils cannot meet API SM/SN

C2 Stable, stay in grade oil of A5/B5 performance
and mid SAPS (Sulphated Ash 0.8%).

C3 Stable, stay in grade oil with mid SAPS
(Sulphated Ash 0.8%). These oils may also
meet A3/B4* and API SN. HT/HS >3.5cP.

C4 Stable, stay in grade oil similar to C1 but with
tighter volatility limits and no lower limit
on phosphorus.

E2 General purpose oil for naturally aspirated and
turbocharged diesel engines, medium to heavy
duty service and mostly normal drain intervals.
(Obsolete by 2010).

E4 Stable, stay in grade oil more severe than E7,
for significantly extended oil drain intervals.
Usually synthetic or predominantly synthetic.
Also for Euro 3 and Euro 4 engines.

E6 As for E4 but with chemical limits to allow use
in engines with particulate filters and SCR NOx
reduction systems. Only for diesel fuel with
<50ppm sulphur. 1.0% ash, 0.08% phosphorus.
Euro 4 and 5.

E7 Designed for use in Euro 1, Euro 2 and Euro 3
emission diesel engines in severe heavy duty
service and extended drain intervals where
allowed. More severe than E2/E3 but not as
severe as E4.

E9 Designed for Euro 5 engines with DPFs. SAPS
limits line up with API CJ-4 and 7BN minimum.

ACEA specification oils have tighter shear stability and oil volatility requirements than equivalent API specification oils.

*ACEA 2010 specification oils can no longer meet both C3 and A3/B4.

 

[Gazwould]

ACEA , API and ILSAC are a garden path as they are but a small part of an oils performance profile .

For the complete picture it's the manufacturer oil spec like MB229.52 .

Pick an ACEA / API and I'll show you .

 

[DMK/Happy]

how much confusion do we want ? this is the NEW simple list so its straightforward


A1/B1 For use in gasoline and light duty diesel engines
capable of using low friction, low viscosity, and
low HT/HS shear (2.9 to 3.5cP) oils. A fuel
economy specification, this oil may not be able
to be used in all engines.

A3/B3 Stable, stay in grade oil intended for use in
high performance gasoline and diesel engines
or extended drain intervals.

A3/B4 For use in direct injection diesel engines where
special oils may be required, but also suitable
for applications described under A3/B3.

A5/B5 Similar to A3/B3 but for engines capable of
using low friction, low viscosity and low HT/HS
oils. May be unsuitable for use in some engines.

C1 Stable, stay in grade oil of A5/B5 performance
level and low SAPS (Sulphated Ash 0.5%).
These oils cannot meet API SM/SN

C2 Stable, stay in grade oil of A5/B5 performance
and mid SAPS (Sulphated Ash 0.8%).

C3 Stable, stay in grade oil with mid SAPS
(Sulphated Ash 0.8%). These oils may also
meet A3/B4* and API SN. HT/HS >3.5cP.

C4 Stable, stay in grade oil similar to C1 but with
tighter volatility limits and no lower limit
on phosphorus.

E2 General purpose oil for naturally aspirated and
turbocharged diesel engines, medium to heavy
duty service and mostly normal drain intervals.
(Obsolete by 2010).

E4 Stable, stay in grade oil more severe than E7,
for significantly extended oil drain intervals.
Usually synthetic or predominantly synthetic.
Also for Euro 3 and Euro 4 engines.

E6 As for E4 but with chemical limits to allow use
in engines with particulate filters and SCR NOx
reduction systems. Only for diesel fuel with
<50ppm sulphur. 1.0% ash, 0.08% phosphorus.
Euro 4 and 5.

E7 Designed for use in Euro 1, Euro 2 and Euro 3
emission diesel engines in severe heavy duty
service and extended drain intervals where
allowed. More severe than E2/E3 but not as
severe as E4.

E9 Designed for Euro 5 engines with DPFs. SAPS
limits line up with API CJ-4 and 7BN minimum.

ACEA specification oils have tighter shear stability and oil volatility requirements than equivalent API specification oils.

*ACEA 2010 specification oils can no longer meet both C3 and A3/B4.

Saved the info for reference, I go for OM spec always.

 

[EmilysDad]

....

hard to believe but ford now use a wet belt to drive the camshaft - it runs in the hot engine oil and is designed to self destruct with old oil - see alongside above - a nice belt and braces approach to car sales

Peugeot use a wet belt too .... there is a go-no go gauge to determine when it's swollen too much

 

[DMK/Happy]

Peugeot use a wet belt too .... there is a go-no go gauge to determine when it's swollen too much

I would not be keen on wet belts I'm old school.

 

[DMK/Happy]

there are various systems, the level of sophistication used varies. I don't have info on the Merc ideas

some literally do some basic maths, on distance, on hours of use, temps reached for what duration etc. I thought I read VW have a basic optical thing in the sump for their long service interval models,

but the basic ones is time and distance, hence no need for a sensor - the idea is to market extended service intervals and then get you back in early to spend more

note: modern oil is full of a new breed of delicate, expensive, built in time to fail additives - they claim are less likely to impact the performance of emission control systems - what they mean is if you don't change it within 2 years it self destructs and they can sell an new car

research low SAPS oils - it means falls to bits and destroys the engine, vs long lasting durable high end oils, with the new stuff dropping from 800 to 200 whatsevers, that protect the components under extreme abuse - and just in case you were clever enough to know this and try to look after your modern engine using high SAPS oils they now redesigned the engines... so high SAPS will damage a low SAPS spec engine and vice versa - exactly how not sure - guess tweaks to material specs and clearances - so buying the oil spec in the owners manual is no longer a recco, but absolutely vital

hard to believe but ford now use a wet belt to drive the camshaft - it runs in the hot engine oil and is designed to self destruct with old oil - see alongside above - a nice belt and braces approach to car sales

Most likely expensive service item to change also.

 

[EmilysDad]

I would not be keen on wet belts I'm old school.

I'd not be keen on a Peugeot

 

[Blobcat]

Peugeot use a wet belt too .... there is a go-no go gauge to determine when it's swollen too much

As do VW / Skoda

 

[EmilysDad]

As do VW / Skoda

I only know about Peugeot because a neighbour works for them & showed it me on the car he was working on

 

[Blobcat]

I only know about Peugeot because a neighbour works for them & showed it me on the car he was working on

Unclebenz of this parish had a Skoda in which he reported on here. Seems a crazy setup to me