Petrol Fuel Injector Cleaner. How often to use? Which is best?

[Brian23]

How often should you use Petrol Fuel Injector Cleaner, if at all? Which is best? Does it make a difference?

 

[bembo449]

I woukd never use it as a matter of routine , should not be a need

 

[Noddy 99]

It's one of those where the benefits are difficult to quantify but I DO use them as preventative maintenance. Three names which I (and many other people) would recommend are:

BG44K
Liqui Moly
Hydra

The Hydra DPB100 is an on-going small amount so that's every fill-up. The other 2 would be about every 6000 miles.

Note: my car is a diesel but I've used the BG44K on a succession of petrol engines.

 

[Brian23]

It's one of those where the benefits are difficult to quantify but I DO use them as preventative maintenance. Three names which I (and many other people) would recommend are:

BG44K
Liqui Moly
Hydra

The Hydra DPB100 is an on-going small amount so that's every fill-up. The other 2 would be about every 6000 miles.

Note: my car is a diesel but I've used the BG44K on a succession of petrol engines.

Thank you

 

[rifiki]

Never used it, quack remedy?

 

[Botus]

Ethanol in E5 and now far worse still E10, is a budget nasty way to increase the octane rating and is cheap way to bulk out real fuel whilst pretending to be better for the planet – the real aim is to kill off cars and bikes, so they can sell new ones – and as our crooked government are only in it for the money this dangerous rubbish is now in your tank and damaging your vehicle...

It has the following “benefits”

1) Rots rubber, on hoses, O rings, and gaskets etc. (and shouldn't be near your tyres, wiper blades or window rubbers ever)
2) Distorts, damages and wears plastics
3) Erodes various metals (particularly alloys)
4) Is hydroscopic causing rust in metal tanks, pipes, pumps and injectors

All of which means your car is under attack – a good way to combat this is to move to high octane fuels from the big players – Esso 99 in the south east contains no ethanol at all, just high quality fuel with very expensive octane boosters and posh additives. The type, quality and quantity of the additive is vastly different to the utter crap you buy at Morrison’s for example.

There are lots of desirable additives in posh petrol with, Detergents, anti-rust, anti-foam, anti-varnish, anti-aging, anti-knock, etc. etc.

Your engine is designed to run on well atomised fuel with a great spray pattern from clean healthy injectors – it gives better drive-ability, more power and lower emissions. If a car has only run on junk fuel the injectors will be gummed up, varnished and rusty and could be making 20% less power than it originally had and 15% worse emissions.

If it was driven regularly only using high quality fuels then it will be in far better shape – but running decent brand cleaners will only help – it’s a cost / benefit / longevity question that’s hard to quantify – but the easiest and most sensible thing is to only use BP Shell or Esso

Note if you fill with E10 and don’t empty that filth inside a month it will cause damage

 

[Botus]

Note terraclean (and alike) is not a myth - around 30k miles even running decent fuel the throttle body, intake ports, fuel injectors, valves and combustion camber's will be filthy - impacting emissions and power output. By 60k it needs cleaning - due to the dust and debris that gets past ALL air filters and the acidic, soggy, oily filth puked out of the engine breather system - on all cars the intake system is very quickly a disgusting mess - but nothing you put in the tank will clean this - it needs something else (which is where terraclean comes in)

if your car has done >50k and you use this - you will feel the car run much better afterwards - it can easily take a car with failed emissions back to std after an hour of its alchemy

 

[Brian23]

Note terraclean (and alike) is not a myth - around 30k miles even running decent fuel the throttle body, intake ports, fuel injectors, valves and combustion camber's will be filthy - impacting emissions and power output. By 60k it needs cleaning - due to the dust and debris that gets past ALL air filters and the acidic, soggy, oily filth puked out of the engine breather system - on all cars the intake system is very quickly a disgusting mess - but nothing you put in the tank will clean this - it needs something else (which is where terraclean comes in)

if your car has done >50k and you use this - you will feel the car run much better afterwards - it can easily take a car with failed emissions back to std after an hour of its alchemy

Thank you. I think I saw that on Wheeler Dealers.

 

[LostKiwi]

Isn't it funny how everyone seems to hate E10 (personally I've extensive experience of it in France and never seen any issues) and yet E85 is a fantastic fuel for high power outputs.

Most cars after the introduction of three way cats have no issues with E10 rotting rubber components (especially MBs, there's only a handful that aren't E10 compatible).

We store vehicles for extended periods in France and guess what fuel they have? Yep E10. Any issues? None. My Smart Roadster has been stored there for near three years and has not had the fuel replaced in that time. Every six months it get started and it starts and runs perfectly. No sign of any issues on a short run round the block either (private land )

My 129 spends 90% of it's time there and has never shown any issues. It's tank is filled with E10. A full tank lasts a round 6 months on its current usage profile. Next year it will get French plates and will live there permanently (no road tax and controle technique (MOT) every 5 years).

So many of the stories about E10 are exactly that and not based on real life experiences and are just regurgitated "a bloke in the pub said" tales.

 

[Botus]

Ethanol attracts water. When the two get together, they create the perfect environment to grow a type of bacteria called acetobacter. These excrete acetic acid which is highly corrosive

Fuel systems that are regularly refilled are the least likely to have problems with corrosion from acetic acid as the petrol is constantly being used and replaced, leaving little time for Acetobacter to grow. However, when its sat for a bit, the bacteria colonies grow and begin to destroy elements of your fuel system. Fortunately, there are ways to fight ethanol-induced corrosion.

Whether it is a car, yard tool, marine engine or an ATV, when petrol sits for even a short time — a month or more — the fuel becomes stale, and bacteria breed. It is possible to protect a fuel system from corrosion by using additives formulated especially for that purpose. But not all additives are created equal. Some contain alcohol, and using this additive only makes matters worse.

Many fuel additives are effective for preventing rust. However, if rust is present, it can’t fix it. Regular use of a fuel additive with the ability to absorb water and the ability to prevent rust from forming (many have a bactericide that kills off Acetobacter) with an added protectant is the least expensive way to keep your fuel system running well.

Ethanol causes other problems in fuel tanks including fuel separation and — since it is burns at a lower temperature than pure petrol — it is less powerful as a fuel.

weird beard science bit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513208/

Organic acids, including acetic acid, are byproducts of many microbial metabolisms. Microbial organic acid production has been shown to enhance corrosion or deterioration of many materials (Little and Lee 2007). Fungal and bacterial organic acid production has been associated with fuel degradation and corrosion of carbon steel, stainless steel, aluminum, and other materials that are used to construct fuel storage and transportation infrastructure (Salvarezza et al. 1983; Little et al. 1992; Little et al. 1995; McNamara et al. 2005). Acetic acid production by Acetobacter aceti has been shown to accelerate corrosion of cathodically protected stainless steel (Little et al. 1988), and corrosion of carbon steel has also been associated with microbial acetic acid production (Little et al. 1992). The corrosive nature of the Acetobacter spp. cultivated in this study is described in associated works elsewhere (Jain 2011; Sowards et al. 2014; Sowards and Mansfield 2014). Jain (2011) found that carbon steel exposed to an acetic-acid-producing bacterial culture experienced pitting corrosion, and Sowards and colleagues (2014) demonstrated that an Acetobacter spp. culture enhanced fatigue crack growth rates of carbon steels commonly used for pipelines and tanks. Sowards and Mansfield (2014) investigated the corrosion impact of biotically produced acetic acid on copper and steel in tests designed to simulate underground storage tank pump sumps. Corrosion damage was observed for both materials after direct exposure to the Acetobacter spp. culture as well as exposure to acetic acid vapor in the headspace above the cultures. Interestingly, acetic acid has been shown to impact the corrosion and cracking behavior of carbon steel in fuel-grade ethanol environments containing low amounts of water (abiotic tests) (Lou et al. 2009; Lou and Singh 2010). The research of Lou and colleagues did not address MIC; however, microbial acetic acid production could potentially impact these phenomena.

While fuels contain dissolved oxygen and oxic conditions are likely present in parts of a fuel tank environment (Passman 2003), anoxic micro-niches are likely to occur due to microbial oxygen consumption as has been demonstrated in biofilms (Costerton et al. 1995). The presence of anoxic micro-environments and anaerobic microbes suggests that interactions of many types of microbial metabolisms may impact corrosion in these FGE environments; thus, it is important to consider microbial communities when attempting to control MIC. Anaerobic microbes identified in the ECT samples include members of the Proteobacteria and Firmicutes. Clostridium spp. were identified in ECT sample pyrosequencing libraries as well as the ECT.2 sulfate-reducing consortium. Some Clostridium spp. are known to produce acetic acid from hydrogen and carbon dioxide (Braun et al. 1981), compounds likely to be present in the tanks due to the activity of Acetobacter spp. and Gluconacetobacter spp. Additionally, these aerobic, acetic-acid-producing microbes are likely to consume oxygen and create conditions suitable for the growth of anaerobic Clostridium spp. as well as sulfate-reducing bacteria such as Desulfosporosinus spp., which were also identified in pyrosequencing libraries as well as the sulfate-reducing consortium cultivated from sample ECT.2. The impact that the sulfate-reducing consortium cultivated in this study may have on corrosion of carbon steel are examined elsewhere (Jain 2011; Sowards et al. 2014), but briefly, Jain (2011) found that the sulfate-reducing consortium increased general corrosion rates of X52 and X70 linepipe steel. Sowards et al. (2014) demonstrated increased fatigue crack growth rates of A36, X52, and X70 steels in the presence of the sulfate-reducing consortium. Clostridium spp. are known to be associated with corrosion of carbon steels in oil and gas industry environments (Jan-Roblero et al. 2008; Monroy et al. 2011; Zhu et al. 2003). Microbial sulfate reduction has long been associated with MIC of many materials (Von Wolzogen Kuehr and van der Vlugt 1934; Little and Lee 2007; Javaherdashti 2008; Enning et al. 2012; Venzlaff et al. 2013), indicating that even if the corrosive impact of microbial acetic acid production was neutralized, microbial corrosion issues could persist due to microbial sulfate reduction or due to microbial utilization of iron and other alloy metals as a dominant electron donor. While sulfate-reducing microbes are often associated with oil industry environments (Cord-Ruwisch et al. 1987; Magot et al. 2000; Stevenson et al. 2011), we did find these types of microbes in these fuel-grade ethanol environments.

Microbial communities capable of metabolising ethanol and producing corrosive organic acids as well as microbes associated with other biocorrosion mechanisms (e.g., sulfate reduction), enhance corrosion of steels and other materials in systems (e.g., tanks, pipes, pump sumps)

 

[LostKiwi]

The science is interesting but have you ever personally had experience of issues with E10? I've been using it for years and have not yet had any issues even in stored garden equipment such as mowers and chainsaws.

 

[oigle]

Has been in regular use in Oz for many many years. No problems at all in modern cars. Some older ones had to look at different hoses etc but any car less than about 15 years old have no issues. As LK - lots of stupid rumour based stories.

 

[mioba]

How often should you use Petrol Fuel Injector Cleaner, if at all? Which is best? Does it make a difference?

I just stick to premium fuels. Has it all in apparently and I use a bottle of redex per year.
Horses for courses.

 

[Brian23]

Thank you for all your interesting replies, but we seemed to have gone off track of the question, which was :-

Petrol Fuel Injector Cleaner. How often to use? Which is best?​

 

[Botus]

The science is interesting but have you ever personally had experience of issues with E10? I've been using it for years and have not yet had any issues even in stored garden equipment such as mowers and chainsaws.

I filled up my 1993 bike with modern fuels and within 3 tank fulls it spat the whole tank full in to the engine sump via the stupidly located engine breater - I didn't know it had done that, till I started it up and the 3ltr engine oil capacity (now 10 liters made a lot of mess on the drive - Still haven't got the fuel tap to work well since) And its tank is full of rust particles that filled up a mug - I presume its that bad as it came from belguim where its had that filth for longer

On my BMW its clean inside - but on the BM bike forum often get people saying my bike isn't right - and when they take out the fuel pump that sits in the tank it looks like this (which is quite scary as most were replaced on a recall so should only be 3 or so year's old)

See "sludge" on 1 and 2, and top left, the level of corrosion that's been going on - the bike with these parts should be from 2010

 

[Botus]

Thank you for all your interesting replies, but we seemed to have gone off track of the question, which was :-

Petrol Fuel Injector Cleaner. How often to use? Which is best?​

very much on track - use proper fuels and you get some protection and cleaning additives - buy stuff like morrison's supermarket junk and then put in expensive additives every few months (you will have spent more and still damaged the car). If you want things to last better and stay cleaner use super unleaded

Esso Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.

Synergy Fuels | Esso

Esso branded service stations have a variety of Synergy fuel blends (grades) to help you get to where you're going. Learn more here.

www.esso.co.uk

​

 

[LostKiwi]

Thank you for all your interesting replies, but we seemed to have gone off track of the question, which was :-

Petrol Fuel Injector Cleaner. How often to use? Which is best?​

Never use them. Last engine went to 167k before the body fell apart around it. Bloke who took it away for scrap said "it drives beautifully - shame the body is beyond repair."
Smart Roadster on 145k - sitting in barn waiting for me to bother doing a timing chain but aside from that still runs beautifully and still on standard pistons, turbo, injectors, valves, headgasket etc. These have a reputation for self destructing at 100k miles or so so 50% beyond is pretty good, especially given its remapped with 25% more power.
R129 on 145k and runs beautifully. Doesn't see much use these days as it's become a bit of a garage queen. Only used on nice summer days.

Previously had Volvo's and Audi's go to 200k miles plus without any additives and a W203 on 250k that ran like a charm.

 

[Noddy 99]

If you go on YouTube you can see many product tests of the ones I mentioned. NONE of them will blast away all the nasty deposits but you can clearly see that they DO make a difference, however slight.

Our washing machine repairer says that ALL wash tablets are the same in effectiveness; nevertheless I still use Finish Platinum +++ because I want "the best". I take a similar view with additives: maybe everything will run just fine without additives but if it can run even marginally better - or help to prevent later malfunction - I'll take it.

 

[Brian23]

very much on track - use proper fuels and you get some protection and cleaning additives - buy stuff like morrison's supermarket junk and then put in expensive additives every few months (you will have spent more and still damaged the car). If you want things to last better and stay cleaner use super unleaded

Esso Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.n

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.

Synergy Fuels | Esso

Esso branded service stations have a variety of Synergy fuel blends (grades) to help you get to where you're going. Learn more here.

www.esso.co.uk

​

So the question was about injection cleaner. Nothing in that says anything about INJECTION CLEANERS. So no not relevant at all. If I wanted to know about E10 petrol then I would have asked about it. so not relevant at all. Now we answers about a motorbike engine, but no mention of Injection Cleaners. If anyone has an answer about this and NOT E10 petrol, it would be better.

 

[mioba]

So the question was about injection cleaner. Nothing in that says anything about INJECTION CLEANERS. So no not relevant at all. If I wanted to know about E10 petrol then I would have asked about it. so not relevant at all. Now we answers about a motorbike engine, but no mention of Injection Cleaners. If anyone has an answer about this and NOT E10 petrol, it would be better.

Take a chill pill buddy.

The poster is alluding that using a good quality fuel with detergents in it negates the need for additives, which may be offset by fuel grades.