Re-mapping after the MB software update

[Mark A]

There have been. Large number of posts about how the diesel software update has adversely affected the performance and economy of many members cars.

Do any of our forum members/sponsors have positive updates on how to restore/improve things post software update??

 

[Tony Dyson]

Statements made by a number of forum members have indicated that when questioned, MB have always responded with a standard statement of ‘The ECM software update cannot be rolled back to the previous version.’ This has puzzled me for a long time, I cannot comment on Star/Xentry as I have no working knowledge of it but being involved with the programming and re-programming of Programmable Logic Controllers, Smart Meters, Intelligent relays etc, the list goes on and on, the process is the same with all the proprietary software, you can create new, save copies, retrieve existing versions from hardware, edit and post to the various devices, without exception. So why you cannot perform similar functions to a CAN-Bus installation I have a great difficulty in understanding? Surely records are kept within the automotive industry?

 

[V6Matty]

They may exist but no good software house would let you use a version with known illegal faults, that’s why they can’t/won’t revert the car back. There will likely also be code to prevent rollback to ensure people can’t overwrite the newer version.

 

[Larkone]

Technically it could be done but if MB installed the old version they would be installing the software that got them into trouble with the regulators in the first place so I can see why they take that position as it puts them in a risky legal position. The new software is rubbish and makes it sound like being forced to upgrade from Windows 7, which worked, to Windows 8, which didn't and Windows 10 unlikely to happen any time soon.

 

[js190d]

The software prior to this update is not illegal in the UK. It may be inconvenient for Mercedes after having to pay all that money to the EU in "fines" but i suppose they must have forgotten to grease the palms of our politicians in the same way.

Installing the previous version of the software will be easy enough as there are always people able to do such things despite any security Mercedes may have put in place.

 

[V6Matty]

The software prior to this update is not illegal in the UK. It may be inconvenient for Mercedes after having to pay all that money to the EU in "fines" but i suppose they must have forgotten to grease the palms of our politicians in the same way.

Installing the previous version of the software will be easy enough as there are always people able to do such things despite any security Mercedes may have put in place.

If it’s under a mandatory recall then I would say it’s illegal,
There may be people that can do so but it takes a lot of time and effort to get around the security, it took years (around 5 iirc) for someone to finally crack the security on the ECU’s to allow read write via the ODB for tuning,

 

[LostKiwi]

If it’s under a mandatory recall then I would say it’s illegal,
There may be people that can do so but it takes a lot of time and effort to get around the security, it took years (around 5 iirc) for someone to finally crack the security on the ECU’s to allow read write via the ODB for tuning,

Agreed. It will be tied in with Type Approvals certification which will undoubtedly specify an emissions standard which the earlier software does not comply with.

 

[Mark A]

I think I was possibly misunderstood. I’m not asking how to restore the previous settings/software, more on how to improve things after the update.

before the update lots of people had their ECU remapped to improve drivability/economy etc... lots of dyno prints to show that there have been gains in power and torque (not necessarily efficiency).

surely after the MB update someone has also tried to improve things?

anything from GAD/MSL etc....?

 

[alexanderfoti]

The main reason software updates cannot be rolled back, is that the whole car is updated as whole. Updates for one module may be dependant on another module having a certain version and so on.

Whilst most remappers/tuners have the ability to read and write the engine ecu, independently from xentry/STAR, when it comes to other modules, it can be very difficult or not possible at all.

So, my rolling back the engine ecu to a version with desireable charachteristics, it may cause issues with other modules/functions.

That said, you can always try it and see what happens, it is dependent on having the correct version of the software available in your database to write.

 

[LostKiwi]

Emissions are indeed part of the Type Approvals certification process:
https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/fcb/air-quality.asp

Interesting line in there about penalties for modifications...

 

[Gazwould]

Ever had a car remaped Al ?

 

[V6Matty]

I think I was possibly misunderstood. I’m not asking how to restore the previous settings/software, more on how to improve things after the update.

before the update lots of people had their ECU remapped to improve drivability/economy etc... lots of dyno prints to show that there have been gains in power and torque (not necessarily efficiency).

surely after the MB update someone has also tried to improve things?

anything from GAD/MSL etc....?

Yes a remap is still possible, that hasn’t changed,

 

[davidsl500]

But the cars met type approval before the updates didn't they and the update is not mandatory..

I asked the question about remaps on diesel cars that had had the update on other threads but never got any answers..

 

[Blobcat]

I asked the question about remaps on diesel cars that had had the update on other threads but never got any answers..

As did I...

 

[Gazwould]

GAD and MSL ?

 

[alexanderfoti]

But the cars met type approval before the updates didn't they and the update is not mandatory..

I asked the question about remaps on diesel cars that had had the update on other threads but never got any answers..

What's the q?

 

[davidsl500]

What's the q?

Here's a few for starters: Has anyone done a before and after dyno run to compare the graphs? Can fuel flow be measured on those runs as well? If say, a stage 1 remap had been applied before the update and was wiped by the software update then the stage 1 remap reapplied from a backup - would the dyno run be comparable? Can a new remap improve the mpg back to before the update?

I'm guessing that the software update has a wide effect across the engine management and whilst the performance may be maintained the mpg can not be got back as extra fuel is being used on more frequent regens etc.,

 

[Larkone]

Here's a few for starters: Has anyone done a before and after dyno run to compare the graphs? Can fuel flow be measured on those runs as well? If say, a stage 1 remap had been applied before the update and was wiped by the software update then the stage 1 remap reapplied from a backup - would the dyno run be comparable? Can a new remap improve the mpg back to before the update?

I'm guessing that the software update has a wide effect across the engine management and whilst the performance may be maintained the mpg can not be got back as extra fuel is being used on more frequent regens etc.,

Have you tried asking GAD or MSL?

 

[Larkone]

Emissions are indeed part of the Type Approvals certification process:
https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/fcb/air-quality.asp

Interesting line in there about penalties for modifications...

This one:
It is an offence under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations (Regulation 61a(3)) to use a vehicle which has been modified (tampered) in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to meet.

But they will only fine if it has been modified and does not meet the standards - that surely would be picked up in an MOT

 

[LostKiwi]

This one:
It is an offence under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations (Regulation 61a(3)) to use a vehicle which has been modified (tampered) in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to meet.

But they will only fine if it has been modified and does not meet the standards - that surely would be picked up in an MOT

That's the one but an MOT may not pick it up (MOT currently cannot measure PM or NOx for example).
DVSA does have equipment that can measure emissions accurately.
It's a little line that could have serious impact for remaps if roadside random checks were ever implemented again.