Refusal of a refund for £3,100

[curious]

I agree, the alleged 2 keys are also a distraction, it is what the dealer is doing to drag it out.

I have already made an official complaint about Capital One credit card company, but it was not upheld.

Your post #76 implies it is still ongoing with the credit card company (albeit slowly).

Have you submitted a Section 75 claim? (Not the same as a complaint.)
What is you complaint about Capital One, the way the're handling it?

 

[Rotorhead500]

I did chat with DVLA yesterday, this is the relevant part to your question blow, I have received their letter conformation today.

Agent (2022/10/04 11:19:59): Because we received details to say you have returned the vehicle a V5c was not issued. The dealer can ring us for confirmation of that.
You (2022/10/04 11:20:47): Where is the V5c now please
Agent (2022/10/04 11:23:35): There wasn't one issued so the dealer can apply for one using a V62 form.
You (2022/10/04 11:24:41): Who is the legal owner at the moment please.
Agent (2022/10/04 11:25:43): The V5c does not prove ownership of a vehicle, that would be a receipt or invoice.
You (2022/10/04 11:27:01): Does the car still belong to the person on the invoice/receipt of purchase please
Agent (2022/10/04 11:27:50): I can only confirm that you are no longer the registered keeper for the vehicle.
You (2022/10/04 11:28:35): Who is the registered keeper for the vehicle please.
Agent (2022/10/04 11:28:53): There are no details on the record.
You (2022/10/04 11:29:35): So am I still the legal owner please
Agent (2022/10/04 11:30:26): I cannot help you with that, that is between yourself and the motor dealer.
You (2022/10/04 11:31:53): Does the dealer now own the car now that it is in his possession please
Agent (2022/10/04 11:34:07): As I said DVLA do not get involved with the ownership of a vehicle, I can only say that you are no longer the registered keeper.
If the dealer wants to contact us for confirmation of this you can give them the number below.
0300 790 6802



.

I'd go back to them again, and clarify that they're permitted to change registered keeper status without owner's consent, which is what they appear to have done! They claim they don't get involved in ownership, but that effectively is what they've done.

I'd then ask for their complaints procedure.

 

[curly]

Your post #76 implies it is still ongoing with the credit card company (albeit slowly).

Have you submitted a Section 75 claim? (Not the same as a complaint.)
What is you complaint about Capital One, the way the're handling it?

Yes, I opened a dispute 25th August 2022 and submitted it to Section 75 claims department.

 

[Droverunner]

It is absolutely clear DVLA register a keeper and have no part in who owns the vehicle. If you think about it Curly is no longer the keeper as he has clearly rejected it and sent it back... the garage is the keeper as they have the car. As someone above said this V5 is a distraction.

 

[curly]

It is absolutely clear DVLA register a keeper and have no part in who owns the vehicle. If you think about it Curly is no longer the keeper as he has clearly rejected it and sent it back... the garage is the keeper as they have the car. As someone above said this V5 is a distraction.

That must mean that the dealer should refund me the payment I made, he cannot have it both ways.

 

[Droverunner]

Oh absolutely... but you have dealt with the lowest of the low car dealer wise and he will play you as long as he can. The V5 however as I said is a distraction.... you need to get past that and move towards legal recourse via small claims and/or credit card.

 

[curly]

Here is a copy letter I mentioned above, I received it this morning and sent it onto Capital One and hope that will unblock the delays I am having with them. it will be quite clear that I do not have the car.

 

[marsdalebear]

Just go the Small Claims Court route and get over your distrust of the legal system. Your paranoia is costing you money. Forget V5, one key, paperwork DVLA and all, just do as you have been advised several times, Small Claims Court.
You seem reluctant to take advice and come across as very entrenched in your interpretation of things like "theft" "fraudulent". People have explained things but you just go on and on. Get over your paranoia and get down to the Small Claims, you never know, it might work. Have you ever considered that you lost in court and in CC disputes because you had no case? You have one now.

 

[MBDevotee]

Remember if you go Small claims court the grief this will cause him is well worth the fee alone.

He will do one of 2 things

1) Not defend - you win by default. If he is a decent size its a pain in the bum to close his whole business down and re-open it, plus you could make it an absolute misery for him.....

2) Defend - loads of hassle.

My gut is, when you put in the claim he'll let it get to a couple of days before court then pay up. If he doesn't - you will win.

Every time I've used the SCC court (several) I have won because I was in the right. In all but one case the people paid without further quibble and in the other although I never got my money, I did get the flat back which was the main aim (tenant hadn't paid).

Just do it - you can do this AND the CCard thing at the same time.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

If you go down the small claims court route you will jeopardise the credit card route to resolving this. I’m afraid the CC company have to talk to both sides to come to a resolution so it will take time. I would be inclined to keep talking to the CC company for updates on a regular basis you should have been given a named contact there. My experience of pursuing £1500 back from a CC was very positive and it did take time the other party always stalls it’s the nature of the game unfortunately don’t forget these people can make or break a company.

 

[curly]

If you go down the small claims court route you will jeopardise the credit card route to resolving this. I’m afraid the CC company have to talk to both sides to come to a resolution so it will take time. I would be inclined to keep talking to the CC company for updates on a regular basis you should have been given a named contact there. My experience of pursuing £1500 back from a CC was very positive and it did take time the other party always stalls it’s the nature of the game unfortunately don’t forget these people can make or break a company.

I totally agree, that is exactly were we are at now, it is very close to ending as far as I can tell without a court case.

I don’t know how to multi quote with #88

I am happy to listen to anyone’s advice but what I wont tolerate, as in my signature, an arrogant rude brash individual macho man who appears to have absolutely no opinion other than their moronic pathetic obnoxious view, that they insultingly insist that only what they say is worthwhile listening to and should be obeyed without question who has only put in 7 messages in 2 years.

Copied below so he cant remove it.
"just go the Small Claims Court route and get over your distrust of the legal system. Your paranoia is costing you money. Forget V5, one key, paperwork DVLA and all, just do as you have been advised several times, Small Claims Court.
You seem reluctant to take advice and come across as very entrenched in your interpretation of things like "theft" "fraudulent". People have explained things but you just go on and on. Get over your paranoia and get down to the Small Claims, you never know, it might work. Have you ever considered that you lost in court and in CC disputes because you had no case? You have one now."

 

[AMGeed]

I am happy to listen to anyone’s advice but what I wont tolerate, as in my signature, an arrogant rude brash individual macho man who appears to have absolutely no opinion other than their moronic pathetic obnoxious view, that they insultingly insist that only what they say is worthwhile listening to and should be obeyed without question who has only put in 7 messages in 2 years.

You'll be happy to see said member has been removed.

 

[curly]

You'll be happy to see said member has been removed.

Many thanks for letting me know, it makes me feel a whole lot safer, I did stop posting because of his unnecessary rude abuse, I just hoped for a friendly discussion that would help me and others in the future if it should happen to them.

Anyway! The situation now is that the seller is refusing to refund me, in his words:
….“because the back of the car is plastered with golf stickers”…
ha ha,... well you’ve got to laugh.

see picture of the car on a trailer and being returned.

As requested on the phone I sent this picture to the CC company, I got the feeling from them that they wont be putting up with this nonsense from the seller much longer.

malcolm210, I agree with you:
“If you go down the small claims court route you will jeopardise the credit card route to resolving this”
That was always a concern of mine.

 

[DSK]

Evidencing and documenting every interaction and detail is key, well done you!

His lies will catch up with him as there will be some variation to what he may be repeatedly asked. You have straight forward evidence to help discredit him.


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[oliveau]

I understand from many pages of this topic that the dealer will not refund you until you supply certain paperwork.
You don't want to part with said paperwork.
So hire a solicitor in Gt Yarmouth and send them the paperwork with the instructions to hand over to the dealer upon receipt of cleared funds.

 

[curly]

I understand from many pages of this topic that the dealer will not refund you until you supply certain paperwork.
You don't want to part with said paperwork.
So hire a solicitor in Gt Yarmouth and send them the paperwork with the instructions to hand over to the dealer upon receipt of cleared funds.

It's not that simple actually, this is just a ploy as so many others have recognised, if you read it all you will see it started with wanting a second key, which he never supplied, then it was the V5C which DVLA will not give him until he gives me the refund, then there was the 12 months fraudulent MOT he supplied that he wanted returned, more recently it was because the back of the car was covered with golf stickers allegedly, see picture above, this will go on until the CC company feel like putting a stop to his ridiculous nonsense, but it would appear that it wont be any time soon as the section 75 man in charge of this claim now tells me today that he is going away on holiday for the next few weeks, as of next week and no one else will be dealing with it, I’m sure when he returns there will be some other excuse for not giving me a refund all the while the seller has the car in his possession and my £3100.

I have spoken to a solicitor who advises me to avoid court action at all costs as it could end up costing more than the £3100 that is owed to me plus all the turmoil and uncertainty, further more he tells me in addition to this it cuts across the CC company who could put the case on hold until a court case ended, that may take years, that’s the reality of it.

This has been going on since 22nd August, If I ever get my refund I will be closing down my account with Capital One for good with vigour.

I truly thought the credit card company was there to help the victim, not the fraudster.

 

[lewyboy]

It's not that simple actually, this is just a ploy as so many others have recognised, if you read it all you will see it started with wanting a second key, which he never supplied, then it was the V5C which DVLA will not give him until he gives me the refund, then there was the 12 months fraudulent MOT he supplied that he wanted returned, more recently it was because the back of the car was covered with golf stickers allegedly, see picture above, this will go on until the CC company feel like putting a stop to his ridiculous nonsense, but it would appear that it wont be any time soon as the section 75 man in charge of this claim now tells me today that he is going away on holiday for the next few weeks, as of next week and no one else will be dealing with it, I’m sure when he returns there will be some other excuse for not giving me a refund all the while the seller has the car in his possession and my £3100.

I have spoken to a solicitor who advises me to avoid court action at all costs as it could end up costing more than the £3100 that is owed to me plus all the turmoil and uncertainty, further more he tells me in addition to this it cuts across the CC company who could put the case on hold until a court case ended, that may take years, that’s the reality of it.

This has been going on since 22nd August, If I ever get my refund I will be closing down my account with Capital One for good with vigour.

I truly thought the credit card company was there to help the victim, not the fraudster.

So long as you did nothing incorrectly.

 

[oliveau]

You allege that the MOT is fraudulent. Can you substantiate this claim? As others have advised you should raise this with VOSA. If they support your assertation you will be in a far stronger position.
I think the V5 issue is complicated despite your letter above from DVLA I think that until you get your refund - ie the vendor has accepted the car back - you are still technically the registered keeper, even thought the car is actually on the vendors premises. The fact that DVLA will not issue a V5C to the vendor until he refunds you is ammunition in your favour, but is also supporting the idea that you are still the registered keeper since DVLA will not supply a V5 to the 'new keeper'.
In respect of the accusation of 'theft' you might be on a bit of a sticky wicket as you actually returned the car to the vendor. Did you arrange for it to be sent or did the vendor arrange it's collection?
You must have an absolutely watertight case to submit to SCC. Your photo of the rear of the car without stickers in one such piece of evidence to your advantage. Now you need to take steps the prove your allegation of a fake MOT. Another garage stating that they have found MOT failure items is only a suggestion of negligence on the part of the tester, not evidence that the dealer conspired to supply a false document.

 

[curly]

None of the nonsense made by the seller is reason for not giving a refund,

I did hear on the radio yesterday of a solicitor in Plymouth who claimed money owing on a no win no fee basis, strangely enough they mentioned £3000! alas I did not get their name.
I will let the cc company take its course first but I wondered if a claim for worry and stress caused could be applied for post refund.

 

[DSK]

Trust me,

Document it all (all parties)
Keep it in date order (who did/said whatever)

Copy it then send it to whom ever needs it such as credit card company/solicitor etc.

Sadly even solicitors and investigators are human and subject to being lazy, not giving a poop about us as we are just another person bringing our problems to them. Don’t expect them to read the full facts and take it in. You have to do their work for them and put it in front of their face! They then rubber stamp their name on it. You will actually be making it easier for them to fight for you.

Hang in there, put the agony to one side, collate the facts and then only use that to keep slapping the relevant people in the face with it.


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