RUST- THE RULES Aug 2009

[television]

I love the "Heinz should make some tin cans from Mb steel and the beans would spill themselves".

It is crap metal if an MB gets a stone chip that knocks the paint right off it goes rusty very quickly going under the paint and spreads or grows.

My V70 gets the same chip down to bare metal and nothing happens, it does not even go rusty,

So cheap lousy wrong quality steel sheet used.

I have looked at piles of damaged wings at a toyota repair bodyworks and all of the piles of wings with sheets of paint off do not go rusty and been there all winter

 

[Frontstep]

I just wonder what happened when the steel was ordered "please send us some of that corroding stuff you sent last time it will annoy some more customers"
Or are MB ahead of the game and have quietly introduced a biodegradeable car, oh and van;
Then perversely warranted it against corrosion, I simply don't get it nor understand it.
Unless they have a plant from another manufacturer in their midst ?

 

[ilovevans]

Thanks for repsonses :wink:

I just seem to get a lot of otherwise genuine/straight Mercs coming in with rust issues-my pet view was that the steel was overworked and stressed at the points where corrosion started as it *mostly* appears around boot handles, on seams and arch edges where the metal is heavily worked.

As per comments above, Mercedes metal appear totally different from other marques in its structure and the way it reacts. The paint is fragile and often trim is misguidedly fitted very tightly against the metal where it rubs and holds water around the rubbed area-eg the trim around the side loading door runner on a Vito rubs on the seam of the panel and holds water against it, whereas the trim would be less tightly fitted on, say a Citroen, so not rub and have enough gap to let the water drain and dry off so no problem is caused. The best way I can describe Merc metal is porous and overstressed; it breaks up from within, spreads very rapidly once started and ruptures like a Carrs water biscuit. It is unlike anything else and the chips rust immediately-as has been said, a Volvo can be peppered with chips to the metal but not rust, but so can many other marques' panels now. How can my 2001 Transit bonnet have "down to the metal" chips that have not rusted, when a 2007 Vito is rotting away? My Iveco was covered in down to the metal scratch damage but just needed top coat touch ins, too. I have just done a cherished, low-mile 1-owner 2003 C Class which needed major rust repair to all four wings and all four doors as it was rotting away-WHY??!

All modern cars have issues with the waterbase paint chipping more easily than the old solvent paints (eg compare the bonnet edge of an 80s Passat with a current one; the latter will be peppered with chips) but Mercedes have got some kind of major issue with corrosion and paint finish on fairly late cars that was unthinkable on the older models.

I have had over 100 cars of my own and deal with car paint day in, day out and have been staggered by the level of paint/panel failure on modern Merc cars and vans and am surprised there is no consumer campaign or major publicity about the problem. It does come to something when the paint and bodywork of a 2003 Perodua Kelisa which cost less than £4000 new is in better shape in 2012 than a £35,000 E-Class with the same age and miles.
The main rust cuplrits I see are C-Class, E-Class, Vito, Sprinter and the Ford Ka which rusts around the filler and rear wiper hole-this is a cheap car mind but still gives Ford's image a good kicking as most Ka owners are put off the brand by it. Usually when a repair quote comes in for a Mercedes it is for rust not damage which says it all really.

I have spent a while on here looking at threads on this helpful site to try and assist clients with possible claims, but the sticking point seems to be having full MB service history. However, most people tend to stray out of the main agent network on most brands after a few years for servicing, yet even after five years any car should not begin to rust. Personally, I would not rest until Mercedes had properly fixed it if it was my own car, but clients are often embarrassed to argue about it and just accept the lack of a service stamp as being the end of it. (Even if serviced correctly with the correct MB parts, on schedule, by a qualified VAT registered mechanic).

My love of Mercedes was bashed from W124/6 onwards when the quality went right down and the car was "accountable" rather than just being the best at whatever cost.
The stream of knackered Mercs I see had not convinced me otherwise, but I had thought the issues were a passing 10 year phase that ended when the bosses saw the long term result and brought the quality back up with the latest cars. Then I got a nearly new E350 CGI to sort out. Hmmmm.

What strikes me is that unless I have missed something Mercedes owners have not got organised together and tackled Mercedes in any coherent way; there is very obviously a major issue with paint and corrosion on many models (which could well affect structural safety if corrosion is not just the visible areas) and Mercedes should sort it out-a premium car should outlast a budget car, not corrode before it. Many consumer groups have taken action on other matters and got a free fix; eg the dimming/dead digital dash displays on 2003-7 Renault Scenics are now fixed free by Renault after a campaign.

If anyone gets anywhere with Mercedes or knows of any ongoing campaign, please post and I will try and help the people I see to get somewhere

 

[Frontstep]

There is to my mind an element of snobbery attached to the issue of Mercedes Rust.
On this forum some people will tell you to correct manufacturing issues at your expense.
Some will invent with the smallest of seed detail "Mercedes Policy" from so called insiders,
X told me Mercedes will, won't etc with all the sycophantic enthusiasm of a so called Royal Family "Expert"
"Goodwill" and arbitary time limits are often touted, yet in many claims they clearly breach contract and legislation for consumer contracts.
Some will distort the english language to undermine legitimate warranty and Mobilo contract claims.

There are also of course neglected cars which haven't been looked after with owners seeking free repairs.

At the heart of the problem though is a combination of poor steel choice and even poorer finishing which has persisted for too long, that is entirely Daimler Benz's fault.

There are many examples on this forum of people giving good DIY advice, take Televisions wheelarch treatment an easy and effective DIY others relating their experience of different products, people will help but it is difficult trying to undo poor manufacturing from afar and after corrosion has set in.

I strongly recommend using the Courts and Legal Insurance if you have it, but try to be objective and get someone to be frank with you.


Unfortunately you are often on your own with corrosion claims as there are a lot of variables unlike simple identifiable component failure;
and in Mercedes defence when you do battle through the layers of ill educated screen jockeys they will in my experience sort things out well.
It does sometimes though end up before the Courts and shouldn't.

 

[st4]

ilovevans- thank you for your detailed postings. Naturally it struck a chord as I've had to deal with rust in the arches of a 2005 E class.

Are there other cases of corrosion on C and E class that you've seen, and how would you advise an owner to protect against it....

 

[ilovevans]

ilovevans- thank you for your detailed postings. Naturally it struck a chord as I've had to deal with rust in the arches of a 2005 E class.

Are there other cases of corrosion on C and E class that you've seen, and how would you advise an owner to protect against it....

Thanks for positive comment

C/E Class; usually door bottoms, all wheelarches, front wings above bumper and around trim strip, boot strip, where rear bumper meets rear wings

My opinion on the cause

The failure breaks into two categories:
1/ From poor paint protection on exposed areas or from body fittings holding in moisture. Causes paint failure allowing water to create rust.

2/ From a fault within the metal prior to painting, likely to be due to poor quality metal being overpressed causing failure of the metal inside the panel.

I would recommend fully inspecting any exposed areas which chip/delaminate easily (door bottoms, arch inners etc) every time the car is washed and if needed, removing the rust and applying coats of Kurust before touching in the paint.

However, as much of the corrosion comes from inside the metal (which appears either overstressed or contaminated), this is hard to do anything with, apart from wait until it gets really bad then either bodge where it will come back quickly or replace the panel.

If owning a newish MB, I would find a rusty earlier one, take notes on where the metal failed and Waxoyl these areas to help prevention-then keep a careful eye on the bodywork, touching in as necessary.

My first rusty late Merc would be my very last if MB did not fully sort it out

There is obviously a big problem with this; it needs a PR job and some goodwill to make things right; as said a £40,000 car should outlive a £4000 Perodua...

 

[Sea Rocket]

Being a newcomer to this forum, I had not realised the extent of the rust problem with other Mercedes owners. I had posted on the Mercedes Benz Club forum a year or so ago but this issue is not taken so seriously with them. One reply was, we ought to have a concours event for the most rusty Merc. Not so funny when you are seeking advice.

Having read the past posts on the subject, I found then very informative especially, Xtractorfan, television, Mic and excellent result for Rodererick for instigating court action.

MB always have an excuse as regards the rust. Their favourite is, the car has been repainted (as measured with a paint thickness gauge) and therefore has been repaired before and a subsequent repair will not be allowed.
I've been fighting this battle with them for years. I have owned my 1999 E320 Est for eleven years now, it has been serviced at all the indicated Service A or B intervals and the book fully stamped, 12 stamps A & B from 2 dealerships.

I had an issue with rust in the early days surrounding the tailgate (Estate) which to their credit they replaced. All the known areas of rust formation (there are MBUK memos to garages highlighting these areas as shown by their willingness to waxoyle the affected areas) subsequently showed, tops of doors under the weather seal and rear nearside wheelarch which on another occasion was rectified by repainting, however due to a bad colour match it was decided to repaint, their repairer not mine, THE ENTIRE CAR.

Now, rust has surfaced on the OS Front wing behind the mudguard division panel and near to the lights at the front, it has obviously come from inside out, which is in their remit to repair free of charge, but they will not; saying the paint thickness of the wing has had additional coats applied to it and so they will not repair a repair. What a get out clause. I have pointed out the repainting was done by an authorised MB dealership to no avail. Rules is Rules.

I am considering taking this further with legal help though God knows what this will cost if I lose.

Reading one of the posts above, re rust in spare wheel compartment. I also have this, it is perforated and the road can be seen below. Now, this could be a difficult claim to persue as rust has to appear from inside to out for the claim to be valid (no repainting in this area) and I'm sure, due to past experience, it will be debatable to MB which is inside or out. The battery compartment is similar, surface rust breaking through from behind paint.

I have no confidence in the dealerships as regards the rust issue, we are up against big guns and they will do everything to get out of it, I've kept my part of the bargain, all servicing at MB dealerships for eleven years and not a mile over the reading which might affect my claim.

Reading through the above posts, many I think are correct in saying, never mind 'goodwill', MBUK have a contractural obligation to remedy a problem such as this under their 30 year mobilo-life and that 8 or 10 years or 170K on the clock is immaterial.

The following is an extract from the mobilo-life guantee for a 1999 E320T CDI.

'We provide a warranty against perforated bodywork. In the unlikely event that corrosion does occur from the inside out anywhere on the bodywork or the underbody of the vehicle, it will be repaired by a Mercedes-Benz authorised workshop, free of charge for labour and marerials. Subsequent claims for the same fault, however will not be accepted. The guarantee applies for 30 years. We will also ensure that you remain mobile while your car is being repaired.'

Ironically this is the main reason I had the car serviced at the dealer network. It looked too good to be true.

Having read Roderick's successful claim, gives me fresh hope, I'm due to have a B Service next week , so will raise the matter again. If I could get an insurance legal representative on my side it would carry more weight, I've approached the RAC Legal Dept but they won't touch it.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Being a newcomer to this forum, I had not realised the extent of the rust problem with other Mercedes owners.

Having read the past posts on the subject, I found then very informative especially, Xtractorfan, television, Mic and excellent result for Rodererick for instigating court action..

Hello and welcome - although you have clearly been around MB cars for a while.

You have certainly spotted, and listed, our rustiest members. I think we are all incredulous at the way in which MB have morphed a guarantee into a discretionary goodwill issue and the way in which rust can appear spontaneously without surface damage, yet be deemed not to be from the inside out. It is also marvelous that alloy wheels (which seem to corrode more and more readily, the newer the car) are not part of the bodywork so no claim can be entertained.

MB would have been better not to have entered into a warranty of this sort. To give a warranty, then to apply retroactive conditions, and to renege on it leaves us back where we started (we have a rusty car) but because of the published warranty arrangements, we are now fed up. So we are now fed up, in a way which would have been bad enough if the car had rusted, but is much worse because the premium car we bought, and in this case the expensive dealer servicing, has turned out to be no better than any other, and less good than most.

Good luck on your quest - you are preaching to the converted here.

 

[Frontstep]

I have an almost identical car with nearly every panel replaced under Mobilo including after the mythical 8 years cut off;
and had the same arguments,
You are at the first line of Mercedes Customer Service "treat customer like idiot and hope he goes away".
As I often repeat you may have legal cover under an Insurance Policy check household first.
If not, do not be afraid of the Courts issue proceedings under Money Claim on Line.

You need a number of pieces of paperwork PM me I am heartily sick of this and normally would not be able to assist but I will guide you through and you can post your experiences on here.

 

[Sea Rocket]

Alex
Thank you for your welcome and reply, well put.

 

[Sea Rocket]

Frontstep
Thankyou, I will investigate the insurance angle and after visiting the dealership next week, decide what next. Kind of you to offer to help.

 

[Frontstep]

If you are going into the Dealership ask for copies of ALL the Eskulab history on your car.

 

[don_j]

MB UK Finally repainted my car!

Thank you to all who helped when I started this battle (and it was a battle!) with MB UK to sort out the awful corrosion on my car. This fight had gone on over 2yrs but now sorted (my car: huge spec C320 2001 W203 - owned from 1yr old and FMBSH, now only 55000 miles).

I got my car back a couple of weeks ago after having all four doors replaced and all four wings repainted. All four wheels were replaced too as clearly there was no damage to them and the paint was peeling off.

The corrosion was dealt with at the seams and MB UK paid for all of it.

It was a ridiculous and unecessary battle with MB UK and I was never going to back down - nor should anyone else. I do thank the last people I dealt with at MB UK for finally doing the honourable and decent thing and sorting out this whole mess.

On a separate note (which I might post elsewhere in this forum) I need a good Merc auto-electrician to remove my factory command unit and install a retro-fit one in it's place. Any ideas, please?


Thank you,

don_j

 

[television]

Just shows that if you really push and threaten, something can be done, well done don_j

 

[Mic]

Thank you to all who helped when I started this battle (and it was a battle!) with MB UK to sort out the awful corrosion on my car. This fight had gone on over 2yrs but now sorted (my car: huge spec C320 2001 W203 - owned from 1yr old and FMBSH, now only 55000 miles).

I got my car back a couple of weeks ago after having all four doors replaced and all four wings repainted. All four wheels were replaced too as clearly there was no damage to them and the paint was peeling off.

The corrosion was dealt with at the seams and MB UK paid for all of it.

It was a ridiculous and unecessary battle with MB UK and I was never going to back down - nor should anyone else. I do thank the last people I dealt with at MB UK for finally doing the honourable and decent thing and sorting out this whole mess.

On a separate note (which I might post elsewhere in this forum) I need a good Merc auto-electrician to remove my factory command unit and install a retro-fit one in it's place. Any ideas, please?


Thank you,

don_j

Oxford Car Audio

Mic

 

[hawk20]

Try comand.co.uk

 

[martinopy]

Hi everyone, I have been reading through the thread as I have some dreaded rust issues. I have a Sep 07 cls 320 and the paint is starting to bubble up quite badly around the rear arches and along where the rear quarter panel meets the bumper. There is also some minor issues on the front arches and bootlid. The car has 55k miles and a full history but unfortunately with a specialist and not a main dealer. I have contacted Mercedes directly and they have referred me to my local dealer to have a bodyshop assessor look at it. What do you think my chances are of getting it fixed free of charge? I would imagine the non main dealer history will be their get out?

 

[television]

So the car is only 5 years old, though MB may dismiss the claim because of the service history you would win in a county court as in reality servicing the car does not influence the rust in any way. When was the last MB service on the car

 

[Frontstep]

If Mercedes have referred you too their Body Shop it usually means you have passed the first hurdle of Service history or not, it is very important that you retain all your paperwork from this matter, they may ask for a "Contribution" if so post the details.

What does grate though is the supposed galvanising seems to have failed, it may though have had some other work done.

 

[television]

Certainly is a worry as my CL is 07 but not a spec anywhere of rust.