RUST- THE RULES Aug 2009

[Frontstep]

Maybe they need more information to allay concerns ?

 

[television]

Maybe they need more information to allay concerns ?

They could just go around Tesco parks and they would find many

 

[solarmer1]

Reported MB advice to dealership:
Yesterday I spent about 30 min with a superficially helpful head of servicing trying to get the rust on my June 2000 CLK 320 assessed. He commented that in the last 6 weeks Mercedes called him up to a course on how to asses rust waranty claims. He states that Mercedes have taught him that their waranty will no longer cover the edge of a panel. Hence he feels that my wheel arch problems will not get past them centrally. He feels that lesser rust around the edge of my sunroof will get through.

He feels service histories are important. My car did only 25k between 2003 and 2010 and the 70k, 80k and 90k oil changes during these years were not MB. Otherwise I have a full MB service history including two services at the dealer I am talking to in the past 9 months. He is concerned by the 6 year lack of a mercedes stamp during these years.


I explained that I see nothing Mobilo mentioning the word "EDGE", I explained that I did not think oil services at 70k 80k and 90k were relevant to the waranty. I explained that I believed MB would loose in small claims. I explained that 40 of the 80 employyees I work with buy mercedes from him at some point and that I'll be talking away there business as best I can.

I am due back there next week to hand him a list of where I think the rust is.

Any advice on handling next week ?

Thanks,

Graham

Hi.
Had the same conversation in June this year re' changes made by MB in claims assessment.
Regards
solarmer

 

[solarmer1]

I have today be contacted by the BBC who would like more details about our rust claims for one of there consumer programs, and would be greatly interested in any emails or letters from Mercedes denying liability on their 30 year protection policy. If you have any such letters please PM with details.

Andy Hi.

I'd like to make a contribution to this however I've tried to PM you without success. Is this as a consequence of my newly created membership i.e. today?

Regards
solarmer.

 

[don_j]

Rusty Mercs!

I have today be contacted by the BBC who would like more details about our rust claims for one of there consumer programs, and would be greatly interested in any emails or letters from Mercedes denying liability on their 30 year protection policy. If you have any such letters please PM with details.

Hi Andy,


I know its a while since you posted this message so I wonder how you got on?

MB UK have messed me around [putting it politely!!] since July 2010 and have just sent me through hoops to give me the same answer - a "no" to my claim.

I have a 50,000-mile 2001 W203 C320 Avantgarde which I've owned since it was 1-year old and 8,000-miles. It was bought from an MB main dealer and has always been serviced by an MB main dealer.

I've had an independent inspection done [an inspection which is accepted in court - should I wish to go that far] that confirms my car's paint is original; i.e. it hasn't been crash repaired and/or repainted but is rusting from its seams AND there is no evidence of rust-proofing when new? The inspection also states that my cars is NOT suffering from perforation so MB UK have chosen to dismiss my claim as a result of excessive rust from untreated stone chips!! Totally disregarding the fact that its rusting from its seams and had no rust-proofing from new!

The car is wrapped in cotton wool and garaged dry when not in use. Its barely done 5,000-miles per annum since new and I'm told by an MB bodyshop, a general bodyshop AND the vehicle assessor who carried out the independent report that to solve my car's problems, it needs FOUR NEW DOORS + FOUR NEW WINGS, FFS!!!!

Basically, the car is rotting away and will fall apart - no exaggeration as you'll understand if you saw the photos.

The other thing of note is this, the bonnet of my car (which has some stone chips - as any car will have) is NOT rusting but all the doors and wings are. As I understand it, the bonnet, roof and boot lid of the 2001 W203 came a different supplier to the wings and doors.

MB UK have fobbed me off with the reason of rust being untreated stone chips but it clearly isn't that - any non-MB affiliated person who looks at the car says its rusting from its seams.

Oh and by the way, MB UK say they can't find my claim which I submitted in July 2010! It was all done via Milton Keynes!

This whole matter has made me very angry but rather than let the anger control me, I'd prefer to build a strong case with the other hundreds or thousands of other Merc owners affected by rust and then go mob-handed to MB UK to force them to sort this out.

I wonder if we can collectively engage a solicitor?

Would love to hear any thoughts on this.



With thanks,



Don J

 

[television]

I think that you would win in court Don

 

[Frontstep]

Hi Andy,


I know its a while since you posted this message so I wonder how you got on?

MB UK have messed me around [putting it politely!!] since July 2010 and have just sent me through hoops to give me the same answer - a "no" to my claim.

I have a 50,000-mile 2001 W203 C320 Avantgarde which I've owned since it was 1-year old and 8,000-miles. It was bought from an MB main dealer and has always been serviced by an MB main dealer.

I've had an independent inspection done [an inspection which is accepted in court - should I wish to go that far] that confirms my car's paint is original; i.e. it hasn't been crash repaired and/or repainted but is rusting from its seams AND there is no evidence of rust-proofing when new? The inspection also states that my cars is NOT suffering from perforation so MB UK have chosen to dismiss my claim as a result of excessive rust from untreated stone chips!! Totally disregarding the fact that its rusting from its seams and had no rust-proofing from new!

The car is wrapped in cotton wool and garaged dry when not in use. Its barely done 5,000-miles per annum since new and I'm told by an MB bodyshop, a general bodyshop AND the vehicle assessor who carried out the independent report that to solve my car's problems, it needs FOUR NEW DOORS + FOUR NEW WINGS, FFS!!!!

Basically, the car is rotting away and will fall apart - no exaggeration as you'll understand if you saw the photos.

The other thing of note is this, the bonnet of my car (which has some stone chips - as any car will have) is NOT rusting but all the doors and wings are. As I understand it, the bonnet, roof and boot lid of the 2001 W203 came a different supplier to the wings and doors.

MB UK have fobbed me off with the reason of rust being untreated stone chips but it clearly isn't that - any non-MB affiliated person who looks at the car says its rusting from its seams.

Oh and by the way, MB UK say they can't find my claim which I submitted in July 2010! It was all done via Milton Keynes!

This whole matter has made me very angry but rather than let the anger control me, I'd prefer to build a strong case with the other hundreds or thousands of other Merc owners affected by rust and then go mob-handed to MB UK to force them to sort this out.

I wonder if we can collectively engage a solicitor?

Would love to hear any thoughts on this.



With thanks,



Don J

You simply don't need the mob handed approach.
Take MB to Court it is straightforward, if your account is accurate and objective you will have little to worry about.
As I have often said check to see if you have Legal Cover attached to any Insurance Policy if not do it yourself.

 

[don_j]

Rusty Mercs!

You simply don't need the mob handed approach.
Take MB to Court it is straightforward, if your account is accurate and objective you will have little to worry about.
As I have often said check to see if you have Legal Cover attached to any Insurance Policy if not do it yourself.

I think that you would win in court Don

Thank you Frontstep and Television,

This last negotiation was handled over a period of months by the SMMT. The lady there is very nice and very helpful but I think her hands are somewhat tied as she can't help anymore or increase the pressure on MB UK.

The reason I wanted to go mob-handed to MB UK is to really sock it to them. I'd love it if I had a part in forcing them to spend millions repairing our cars - they forced me to take it personally!


Thanks,


Don J

 

[don_j]

Rusty Mercs! Warranty lengths?

I think that you would win in court Don

You simply don't need the mob handed approach.
Take MB to Court it is straightforward, if your account is accurate and objective you will have little to worry about.
As I have often said check to see if you have Legal Cover attached to any Insurance Policy if not do it yourself.

Andy Hi.

I'd like to make a contribution to this however I've tried to PM you without success. Is this as a consequence of my newly created membership i.e. today?

Regards
solarmer.

I have today be contacted by the BBC who would like more details about our rust claims for one of there consumer programs, and would be greatly interested in any emails or letters from Mercedes denying liability on their 30 year protection policy. If you have any such letters please PM with details.

....


Hi everyone,


Can anyone please help me with where to find confirmation of warranty lengths for 2001-built Mercs - other than in my service book?

As I understand it they were/are for my 2001 W203;

3-year paintwork/mechanical
8-year corrosion
30-year perforation
30-year mobilo breakdown recovery

I was also told by an MB bodyshop that SEAM CORROSION warranty was 10-years from new but last year was dropped to 8-years?


Any help greatly appreciated!


Thanks,



Don J

 

[JBell]

I have a 2001 W203 Estate with 94,000 miles on, been in the family for 7 years and is always garaged. It is rusting on all 4 arches and the tailgate (just above the number plate surround).

The bonnet is stone chipped but has NO rust on it at all. I have spoken to several body shops and they all said "arch rust" after i told them what car it was.

The rust on the tailgate is nowhere near the edge and on the passenger rear arch is on the outside and going towards the inner lip.

Not good at all

 

[ilovevans]

Rusty Mercedes Vans & Cars

Hi, new member joined in curiosity about the never ending rust and paint issues on recent Mercedes.

I read the posts and this thread with interest as my job as a paint repair business involves me seeing a large number of disgruntled Mercedes owners who put simply are quite correct in thinking that their expensive vehicle should have decent paint quality and rust protection.

I had to machine polish a 60 plate E350 CGI Wagon for a client who called me in to ask whether the car should be rejected for the poor finish. I explained about the Eco standards/low VOC paints cars now have to have before meeting, but fully understood what he meant on seeing the car which had more orange-peel effect than an orange plus the paint was dry, flat, inconsistent and looked cheap. I have seen better finish on a Proton. After being flatted with 2000 grit (on a NEW expensive car!) and a three grade polish, it looked ok, but where is the factory quality control. He charged the cost to the dealer.

I have had so many late Mercs come in with original finish but rust in body joint, round boot handles or locks or on door bases it has amazed me.

The worst culprits are the Vito vans though which just literally decompose after a few years. I run a very hard-worked beasted and high mile ex-courier Iveco Daily as a works van which has ZERO rust-even on scratched bare metal and a well used 2001 Transit Tourneo as the family bus which has a couple of tiny sill spots-from untreated stone chips and cannot believe the difference between other vans and Mercedes vans that I see week in, week out.

Today, I was presented with a one owner, 2007, privately owned Vito with 70k miles and a very fastidious owner. It is serviced in the family, the original supplying dealer has closed and the owner came to me for advice on what to do about the rust on it after approaching another local main dealer who turned him away as the servicing after three years old was done by his mechanic brother. On inspection, some rust was from chips-not Mercedes fault, but the entire van was original paint and panels with no accident damage-yet a low mile, well cared for, private van has the rear tailgate handle surround so rusty it is letting in water and the handle is getting loose, plus some of the body seams are bubbling away.

On an abused 10 year old Korean van this would not shock, but the Vito was mint and obviously cherished.

WHAT is going on?
Any advice much appreciated...

 

[Xtractorfan]

Poor quality metal, then a paint process that has been cut to an absolute bare minimum.
Even the present day..around 04 on.. galvanising process has not stopped the wheel arch rusting .. They are now using a lot of aluminium ,bonnet and wings, on many models so this will cut down a lot of the areas that will rust
The other problem is refusing to take responsibility for their manufacturing blunders..
Some even blame waterbased paints..would be a good excuse if it was left on wet and never dried..but once dried it is no different from solvent based paints..

 

[whitenemesis]

Aluminium rusts (oxidises) too! Also there is a catalytic reaction between the aly and the steel.
That said my '05 has numerous chips, down to the metal. Never touched up and no rust. Do I have one of the good ones?

 

[cleverdicky]

Once you get an oxide on Alluminium it actually protects it.

So ive been told

 

[whitenemesis]

But it will still push off the paint coating, causing bubbling and peeling.

Not pretty..

 

[television]

With alli, once the skin is broken the trouble starts

 

[Xtractorfan]

Aluminium rusts... Rust is a common name for Iron oxide ..so how much iron do you think you would find in aluminium..
Aluminium oxidises or corrodes .. If you have aluminium that is rusting you should get it checked..
If your car has stone chips on the front end then it wont rust because it is aluminium..
if anywhere else then the galvanising process is working ... which is good.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Once you get an oxide on Alluminium it actually protects it.

So ive been told

Yes an oxide is a coating or protective skin that protects the metal from the elements...Im sure many people remember the red oxide that used to be painted on all things metal....
But oxidisation or oxidation is a process whereby the metal begins to corrode.
unless with copper where oxidation just changes the copper to a green colour..

 

[Frontstep]

Forgive any ignorance but my understanding is that the manufacturer MB purchases a complete finishing system from a supplier say Glasurit.
MB also purchase steel made to their spec.
Well how on earth have they so consistently got it wrong ?
this is not just a blip its been going on for years.
I cannot believe somebody somewhere in this chain has not warned them.
If the paint system is failing are these paintwork claims being landed on the suppliers.
The steel is surely batched tested before production ?
It is amazing that an employee hasn't spilled the beans.

 

[Xtractorfan]

MB develop a paint system or process that is applied to their cars, the system will be developed in conjuction with a major paint supplier, as these are the guys who have the know how... Now glasurit or PPG or any paint company is guided by the customer and the customers constraints... I did hear an engineer say that MB at one time spent £300 per car on paint processes.. this was subsequently cut to under a 3rd..but that is heresay...or conjecture... also if you read the post earlier by 47p2 ..I shall have a look for it...this confirms the lack of paint and process...
As with regard to the metal, anyone who works with metal can spot the difference between it and other car manufacturers, and more so when it rusts.. it has a differnt characteristic to it when it does rust.. It gives the impression of steel that has rusted from within itself and when rust starts or shows it spreads with a vengance , almost like wildfire..
I do beleive that there is a cunning plan hatched by MB to allow their cars to rust away after 4 or 5 yrs and hope that the second owners wont complain...
why would an employee want to spill the beans ...Heinz should make some tin cans from Mb steel and the beans would spill themselves.
You have to also remember that MB did bring on board a new MD around the time the problems would have begun, and one of his bugbears was the fact that MB cars were too well built and put together..