Rusting Mercedes 2007 ML.

[officer305]

Update from Mercedes. ( They need to visit Specsaver)

The photos were sent to Merc uk today and they have said that they are of poor quality and don't really show anything. The photos are incanclusive. The Merc Garage can't believe what they have said.

I will post some very obvious ones up to let you see. Took more this morning.

The last one is one of the good side for comparison. I struggle to see the difference???????? ( That guy at The Merc UK Warranty department should visit Specsavers. ) Maybe they could use him in one of their adds!!!!!

I am determind not to let this one go. I have invited the guy to come and view the vehicle. My lawyer will be there if he comes?????

The Mercedes Garage part of the Sytner group can't beleive that Merc UK are not replacing the bonnet. They agree where the rust is can't be stopped.

Next person to write to is the head office at Synter. Letter half composed to Nr Byrne at Merc UK. Waiting to get more photos.

It si now obvious that The Warranty guy has dug his heals in.

 

[television]

This does bring up an interesting point,, your contract was with the firm that sold you the car, and not MB, Sytner's have their own contract with MB

 

[Mic]

The photos were sent to Merc uk today and they have said that they are of poor quality and don't really show anything. The photos are incanclusive. The Merc Garage can't believe what they have said.

I will post some very obvious ones up to let you see. Took more this morning.

The last one is one of the good side for comparison. I struggle to see the difference???????? ( That guy at The Merc UK Warranty department should visit Specsavers. ) Maybe they could use him in one of their adds!!!!!

I am determind not to let this one go. I have invited the guy to come and view the vehicle. My lawyer will be there if he comes?????

The Mercedes Garage part of the Sytner group can't beleive that Merc UK are not replacing the bonnet. They agree where the rust is can't be stopped.

Next person to write to is the head office at Synter. Letter half composed to Nr Byrne at Merc UK. Waiting to get more photos.

It si now obvious that The Warranty guy has dug his heals in.

I had a similar but somewhat better response about my wheel arches.
MB UK sanctioned three of four even though the photographs of all four wheel arches showed similar corrosion. They said one was stone chips.....absolute non-sense which was obvious to not only me but also MB Oxford. I am not sure how the finances were sorted but MB Oxford ensured that Liam Kenny, the body shop did all four wheel arches.

MB UK seeming apply not only discretionary responses but also somewhat arbitrary and irrational responses.....not helpful and does them no credit.

Mic

 

[officer305]

Rusty

I have received an E-Mail from Merc UK saying that they at my request are willing to inspect the car. They will not be able to do this till the later part of October 2010. The winter. So that in effect means that the car is going to be in and out of the body shop being repaired. The bodyshop after seeing the photos of in between the panels have now said that they would be unable to stop the rust as it would come through from the inside. I thought that was obvious. There initial statement was that they would be able to stop the rust???

 

[EGBM]

It cant be, Hawk said that 2006 cars do not rust

errr <cough>

 

[EGBM]

Early ones didn't, later ones did..

Mk2 series 1's - rust buckets. Series 2s superb (I now have series 2 panels on my '79) BUT this car is garaged and pampered, never sees salty roads etc etc.

 

[hawk20]

It cant be, Hawk said that 2006 cars do not rust

Really? Just for once in your life, quote me accurately. Where do I say that?

 

[hawk20]

For those who are taken in by Television continually trying to give the impression that I deny the rust problem, or support MB’s handling of it, I suggest a glance at what I said in an earlier thread: -

“BUT fifthly and lastly there appears to have been a recent change in policy that cars without full MBSH are being rejected for free 'goodwill' rust repairs. If this is so, I think it is a retrograde step by Mercedes, will lead to ill will with those affected, and will harm Mercedes reputation with many others.

Mercedes has few greater fans than me, but I am greatly disappointed to hear of people being turned down for free remedial work for a problem which all agree should never have happened. Nobody who buys a car of Mercedes quality and price should expect to have a serious rust problem in under eight years regardless of whether or not they have a full MB service history or not.

Hard times often necessitate hard decisions. But this is a bad decision. Mercedes should not go back on its obligations to customers who have been sold a seriously faulty product. It may not be a legal obligation, but it is certainly a moral one.”

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=39412&page=20 Posting 194

 

[officer305]

Rusting ML and other Merc cars. Sad Day.

Hi Chaps, I today spent some time speaking to a gentleman who has worked for Mercedes servicing cars for nearly 45 years.

He told me that without a doubt Mercedes have a serious rust problem. He told me that they are seeing cars from 2004 up to 2008 with rust showing on them. Mostly under the paint and gavanization. All the model types. From the cheepest to the very expensive. Even ones made in Germany. There is a tick box on the service book.

They are not allowed to tell the customer as most change every three years and wouldn't see the rust anyway. The galvanizing process is not working and cars etc are rusting at the seams where they are stuck together with glue. Mercedes use glue as to try and not break the galvanizing. They try not to spotweld. Thats an indictment that they know that their metal isn't up to standard. He thinks its the metal thats the problem. Galvanising cant stop poor quality metal rusting. Mercedes say they build cars stronger with glue.

He says Mercedes are aware of the problems but don't seem to care. The warranty department are turning more and more claims back for as many reasons as they can think up. If they ask you if you live by the sea say no! or drive on salty/ gritted roads say no? Make sure you tell that your car is washed and waxed regularly. Thats how stupid it is.

He feels sad that things have got so bad. He is shortly retiring. He said that Mercedes used to be a great company to work for but it is now like all the rest with mass produced cars. Penny pinching, corner cutting and all the rest.

He is amazed that customers keep coming back and puts it down to Mercedes being a status symbol. He said it won't be long till the panels, engines, engine parts etc are made in China or India and shipped to USA, Germany etc where they would be assembled so they can say they were made in those countries.

There are more complaints than ever for new cars coming out not running properly or things wrong with them. Apparently they can turn back the mileage as long as they don't go over 150 miles in one continuous burst. So your new car could have done a few hundred miles although it only shows delivery mileage. This was to hide the fact that they had to fix it when it was new. I feel this is a bit of a con. He quoted the 350 Cdi efficiency engine. The first V6 Diesels on E Class and W164 ML's camshafts seized up along with problems with fan motors and so on. Gearbox problems on cars. Electronic issues. Catalytic convertors etc etc.Window surrounds rusting. Chrome fittings bubbling and chrome coming off.

He said the true mileage of the car is in the ECU. He has seen differences of nearly 100 miles from what is displayed on the dash. Although the first owner bought it as a new car??? He has known sales staff to run around in new cars on trade plates for days and each day the mileage would be taken back to a few miles.

He is totally disillusioned at what is happening to Mercedes Benz as a company. They are no longer the car they claim or should be.

Quote: If they spent less money putting all these gizmo's into the cars and built a solid foundation with a strong rust free body and good mechanicals then they would be more thought of. Did you know there is a computer sensor thing that checks the qaulity of the engine oil every now and again?

This is a sad endorsenment of what I have suspected over the last few weeks. I wish I had had this conversation with him some 7 years ago when I bought my first Mercedes. I would be several thousand pouns better of and probaly have a rust free 4X4. As apposed to what I have now.

Mercedes in there present form are becoming the laughing stock of the car industry. Nissan are their latest partners I beleive since the last sell of merger what have you. These seem to be happening more and more frquently. I wonder why. Do Mercedes make a profit??

This will be my last Mercedes. The last one my son buys and the last ones my cousins buy. Mercedes Benz are going to the dogs. The best of it is when I bought it I took an extended extra three year warranty as I thought I was buying a car that would last me a few years. Silly me. Its only done just over 26000 miles. Just over 2000 since its service at the begining of the year. A 2007 rust bucket.

What a pitty. Mr Benz will be rolling in his grave where his company might soon find itself. Is this the start of the end? Reading these forums it might be.

 

[television]

I have always said the metal is crap, it has to be, the paint is the same as all other makers

 

[hawk20]

For the record the paint is not the same as all other makers.

Nor do I accept the wild assertion about the steel.

Interesting article on MB paint: -
http://www.ae-plus.com/Key topics/kt-materials8.htm

 

[television]

For the record the paint is not the same as all other makers.

You really do not know much do you, are you saying that MB make their own paint now, ignore the Nano bit thats a lot newer, but the nono paint cars are going rusty too

Nor do I accept the wild assertion about the steel.

Now our car have 2 elements in the making of the body, the paint and the steel, do I have to say more

Interesting article on MB paint: -
http://www.ae-plus.com/Key topics/kt-materials8.htm

How many cars have you ground the rust from and sprayed this week hawk

 

[hawk20]

How many cars have you ground the rust from and sprayed this week hawk

Is that meant to save you from admitting that all cars do not have the same paint?

Too much grinding and too little reading can be a dangerous thing. Try the article I gave the link to.

 

[EGBM]

So, what do other "prestige" manufacturers do? You'll have to excuse my ignorance and naivety, but do Jags/BMs/Audis suffer like MB cars? What do they do different?

(I've got another couple of years to source a prestige vehicle that lags behind a 1984 Ford in terms of build quality)

 

[officer305]

Rusting ML

Dear Hawk,

I have read the article.

So the paint is superior.

The lacquer is superior.

The Galvanization process is the same as other manufacturers.
( Industry Standard )

The panels are glued together to stop breaking the galvanization barrier.

All these things put together and rust is a thing of the past? As with other manufacturers. Or for at least quite a few years down the line.

But wait there is one other element to take into consideration and

by simple process of elimination. What does that leave?????

Just in case you can't figure it out.

THE METAL

Its the only thing left. Or I am I missing something?

Process: Quality Bare metal panel properly prepaired. Galvanization. Primer. Paint. Glue. ( No Rust )

Or are Mercedes taking short cuts in prepairing the Metal??? Its one or the other. Either way its Mercedes Benz that have to be held accountable for a sub standard product??? There are no excuses in this day of technilogical advances.

I stand to be corrected.

Thank You.

 

[hawk20]

Many views on this officer 345 if you search the threads but little factual evidence. Odd thing is that if you take the 210's where rust was the biggest problem, some have no rust at all -even round here by the sea- and others have plenty. There are more theories than you could shake a stick at.

 

[hawk20]

So, what do other "prestige" manufacturers do? You'll have to excuse my ignorance and naivety, but do Jags/BMs/Audis suffer like MB cars? What do they do different?

(I've got another couple of years to source a prestige vehicle that lags behind a 1984 Ford in terms of build quality)

Oddly enough BMW had serious problems at around the same time as MB and they too went over to galvanising at around the same time.
BMWs and rust -worth a read. Other BMW forums reveal a similar story.

http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=39921&PN=1

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Galvanizing

is not that recent though. I believe that the 107s from the point of the face lift in 1985 were galvanized (and their durability tends to support this, compared with earlier 107s), and 129s were galvanized.

MB were certainly making cars with better rust resistance in the 1990s (190, 129, 124 (?)), than in the rogue spell 1998-2002.

 

[hawk20]

is not that recent though. I believe that the 107s from the point of the face lift in 1985 were galvanized (and their durability tends to support this, compared with earlier 107s), and 129s were galvanized.

MB were certainly making cars with better rust resistance in the 1990s (190, 129, 124 (?)), than in the rogue spell 1998-2002.

Main advantage on earlier cars was the use of cellulose paints which are inherently waterproof. Trouble with the water-based paints they were all required to change to for environmental reasons, is that they are not waterproof and rely on the lacquer to keep the water out. Hence the need for full galvanising of all steel panels as protection under the paint.

The evidence I give in the galvanising thread in the bodywork section has been confirmed at a high level by MB.

 

[officer305]

Rusting ML.

Dear Hawk,

I would guess that the reason there is no factual evidence is that as yet nobody has had the resources to take Mercedes Benz to task. Would Mercedes honestly let you take dip samples of metal before being treated? After being prepared for Galvanization, etc. To be tested. These samples being taken on a day not determined, but on a drop in basis. So to be fair and a true example of there everyday process. The metal etc to be tested. This would cost a lot of money. Since there is no benefit in it for the person doing it apart from helping other customers and maybe getting Mercedes to get their act together.

In USA where litigation is the key word then it is a no go as there again is no money benefit in it. It isn't a safety issue just a quality one. If there was a chance of getting money from Mercedes a result of their build/ corrosion problem then the Americans would have done it.

The chap that I referred to has had all these years working with Mercedes. He has seen the ups and downs. His opinion I think is qualified by his time and experience. I wish Mercedes didn't rust. I wouldn't have this problem now on a three year old car that obviously been rusting for some time. Although the service book is stamped for a rust check. Just what the chap said.

May suggest that you write to Mercedes along the suggestions that I have said and have the metal/ process tested. Then you can without doubt prove why Mercedes rust or don't as the case maybe. I am sure Mercedes would be delighted in your findings.

It shouldn't be pot luck that you get one that doesn't rust. I don't know your trade but from what Television hints are you a spray painter? Body repairer?

The truth of the matter is that this vehicle that I have is rusting in places it shouldn't. Mercedes don't have a get out clause. No chips under the bonnet. I don't live by the sea. The car is washed regularly as well as underneath. It is clearly a manufacturing process fault. Can you argue with that?

Mercedes are as with all auto mobile companies feeling the pinch. They are finding ways to maximise their profit? They no longer have the cash reserve to keep there customers happy by repairing the rust. So the person that suffers is the customer on both accounts. Substandard build and customer support.

I am taking the ML in next week to two independent body repairer shops. One is BMW/ Audi approved and the other Jaguar approved. I will get quotes from both garages to eradicate the rust on the bonnet. I will ask their opinion if the corrosion can be stopped and if they think it is in between the panels. I will not tell them that I think it is.

I will also ask the BMW chap if he has had many of them to repair.

I am at this time looking to get a engineers report on the corrosion and its likely causes?

I will honestly post the findings here.

I am meeting with the assessor from Mercedes on 7th October 2010 when he inspects my car. My financial resources are limited as I am retired but I will have as much ammunition to fire at him as I can. I was very good at my previous job. It is my nature to be logical and fair.

It is obvious that you have a passion about Mercedes Benz cars. I commend you for that. I love them to. I think they look great are lovely to drive and all the rest.

That is not the issue. The issue is the Company selling a substandard product in some aspects. Standard being the operative word.

Thank you.