Smoking illegal in your car with under-18-year-old "Children" inside?!!

[Crazycarb]

Oh C'mon Jim, I'll never HATE a smoker. Many of my mates are smokers, but I don't like to be around them when they're doing it.

 

[toby1]

One is not an adult in the eyes of the law if you are under 18.

This law is correct although I doubt we'll see it enforced. Anyone who smokes with children in the car is quite frankly an idiot

 

[Frontstep]

The trouble with this thread is the freedom wanted is the freedom to burden society with the fallout from a drug addiction.

Many of the arguments could be neatly transposed to many other addicts.

It surely cannot be long before we get the "I pay my taxes" line.

Smoking is an anti-social burden on society.

I really appreciate coming home from a night out without a sore throat and cough my clothes not having to be hung outside.

A person interested in the welfare of others and children in particular would welcome these curbs as a prompt to give up.

Freedom to be a burden on others is an oxymoron.

 

[wildwoman]

The law is convoluted when it comes to 16 and 18 yrs old. The law itself needs to decide which is an adult now that all children have to stay in some form of education until they are 18.

at 16 they can smoke, but cant buy them until they are 18. A lot of 13/14 yr olds smoke.

At 16 they can move out/ get wed ( with parents permission) but some benefits they cant claim until older and at 16 if they have an employer, they can be paid as little as £" an hour.

But they cant vote until 18 when the government decides they are old enough and intelligent enough to make up their own minds,#

there should be just one age. We all consider under 18s to be jouvenile, over 18.. an adult.

I have 4 kids, 1 who is 17 and to be honest she is in a grey area being an unstable type 1 diabetic who doesn't like taking insulin etcc.. nearly died a few times through DKA and been in ICU. been told a few times to prepare myself, she may not make it. But my point is this, at 17 she is too old for CAHMS, but too young for adult mental health ( have to be 18.)

law needs to sort itself out.

anyway... I used to smoke. I never smoked in my house/ in the car or around those that did not smoke. nor do I now castigate those that do. Nicotine is more addictive than heroin and is harder to kick.

Smokers get kicked down left right and centre but it is the tax they pay that helps pay for things like the NHS etccc...

anyway... ive completely lost track of what points I was trying to make due to being interrupted by the kids so im going to shut up now. lol

 

[C350Carl]

Smokers get kicked down left right and centre but it is the tax they pay that helps pay for things like the NHS etccc...

Well they do add an unnecessary burden to it....

Donning flame suit ready.

 

[wildwoman]

Well they do add an unnecessary burden to it....

Donning flame suit ready.

flame thrower at the ready...

true, very true.... so its like a snake chasing its own tail. But the revenue produced by the smokers, is what I believe, keeps the NHS free. Without it, we would all pay higher tax.

The cost of smokers vs the loss of revenue.. in my belief, is huge.

for a person to quit smoking, they need to be mentally ready to do it... took me several attempts. but the craving, is always there. especially when I feel like banging my head against a wall!!

 

[C350Carl]

The tax revenue is the ONLY reason the government won't classify it as drug use and ban it.

Hat off to you though for quitting. I know a lot of people who have tried and failed repeatedly.

 

[wildwoman]

The tax revenue is the ONLY reason the government won't classify it as drug use and ban it.

Hat off to you though for quitting. I know a lot of people who have tried and failed repeatedly.

Thank you

very true... they also know that even when they increase the price of them, people will still pay it. takes time for someone to quit.

 

[Frontstep]

I don't get the tax argument for smokers;
Alcoholics pay lots of Duty.
The obese must have shoved an extra few bob in the vat pot.
Even your speeding motorist must have paid some extra in fuel duty.

Raising duty from the addicts of a killer drug has to be one of the ironies of our time.

 

[Rappey69]

Oligarchy - the rule of the many by a few. Just like a dictatorship.

Had to google "oligarchy" as never heard of that before, and i had a private education ??
I do agree that if a sole occupant of your own car who the hell has the right to tell you what you can and cant do as long as it in no way interferes with the use of the vehicle ? but you cant eat or drink whilst driving anymore, so guess smoking will be in line at some point.
There are so many things you can do in a car whilst steering with your knee on the wheel though :idea: (on private land of course! )

 

[Philedge]

I do agree that if a sole occupant of your own car who the hell has the right to tell you what you can and cant do

Your family and friends when you die prematurely?

My farther in law died 15 years ago of lung cancer attributed to smoking. He'd not long been retired when the big C was diagnosed. My wife spent 18 months supporting him and nursing him until his death and that period seriously and permanently affected her health.

He should have had another couple of decades seeing his grandchildren grow up but denied himself that by smoking.

To the smokers that demand the right to do what they want, have a think about the rights of those around you before you bleat about your right to attempt suicide

The OP is right about the age of 18 being the wrong threshhold to decide when you can and cant smoke in a car with passengers-it should be 118.

 

[Frontstep]

I am genuinely sad when I see young people smoking.

I saw a lovely looking young girl blowing the life out of her young lungs and felt like screaming at her.
She was probably of age and enjoying the freedom to kill herself a few seem to treasure so much, not me.

 

[JimM]

...but you cant eat or drink whilst driving anymore...

Really, is this already law? Not a sandwich, without using a knife as well as a fork at the same time?

Or an apple?

Or a fig?

How about a tomato?

Ah! Don't worry, just accept it, it's OK, ice-cream must be OK surely!

And not a bottle of water?

Or an orange juice?

Or a Pepsi?

How about Coca-cola?

Defintely not a coffee, it's probably hot and...!

The litteral "Don't Drink and Drive" gone mad?

Well if this is already in force then your and my freedom is already lost so I'm going to emigrate to Pakistan where people probably have more than 2 cents of intelligence for their dollar.

How about China?

I am genuinely sad when I see young people smoking. I saw a lovely looking young girl blowing the life out of her young lungs and felt like screaming at her.

She was probably of age and enjoying the freedom to kill herself a few seem to treasure so much, not me.

I totally agree and my feelings about kids smoking are just the same.

If she looked over 14 even, but under 18, I wouldn't try to talk her round for the probability of verbal abuse in response.

But if I tried to prevent her by taking it away from her? Even if she didn't resist, not only passers-by but also the police would take a serious interest in me, instead of telling her to not be so stupid, even though I am trying to save her life.

Many years ago when I was in my 20s a stupid boy about 13-14 years old lit up and smoked next to me on the tube in London. A lady the other side of him asked him to put it out, but he looked at her and ignored her. I waited a few more seconds and said to him "put it out mate, it's against the law to smoke here" and pointed to the no-smoking sign in the carriage.

Would you believe, the little sh*t blew smoke in my face and told me to F off. I said "Do what?" and he jumped up and started yelling more bad language at me.

When I got up, two blokes further along the same carriage shouted to me to "leave him alone, he's just a kid".

Interesting. When I was his age three or four blokes would have told him to stop right away and may even have threatened to clip him round the ear.

People who are old enough also forget how much effort was given to starting kids to smoke in the 60s and 70s by wonderful advertising of "the Free Country", "the Marlborough Taste", sexy young women on the shoulders of the handsome, "chiselled" cowboy dragging on a cigarette while taming wild horses... all smoking.

We were subjected to all of that, as well as not only to peer pressure and derision (i.e. from other kids of our own age), but also often to bullying, and we are the result. We also looked up to older kids who did smoke and appeared more grown up. Now we are older we know it is stupid and that they were the stupid ones. But at the time, and at that age, it did not appear stupid.

It was the "grown up" thing to do. All our film stars smoked. Our doctors smoked. Our policemen smoked. Our managers smoked. Our customers smoked.

I am fortunate because I only smoke pipes and cigars when I have them, and if I have neither then I don't have panic attacks and can not smoke for weeks at a time. For many it's not possible to stop.

But when I do want a cigar in my car, I am going to have one.

You need to be just a little bit more tolerant and let people like us die off in peace while at the same time trying to prevent young people from starting.

You also seem to not realise that almost all smokers are against young people starting to smoke. We are not "the enemy", and like the old man you call or called "dad", or "granddad", who smoked, he too wanted the best for you and to not make his mistakes. So do we.

I'm not pleading for sympathy, I am raising 2 points here.

1 - at which age, 16 or 18 is an adult? If 18 then there should be consistency - bans on under-18s doing anything without their parents' consent, which includes everything the parents sensibly do not want their children to do/experience,

and:

2 - where will others stop trying to control everything I do in my own car, and then extend it to prevent me from living as I wish in my very own house?

Just because...? What?

We are not criminals or rabid dogs so don't treat us as such. You want respect? Give it first.

I know there are fools, cretins, imbeciles, who smoke with their kids in the car and I despise them too and I am in favour of a law to force them to stop because as we all know, those kids may not be able to persuade the idiot to stop. And if the kids don't mind the selfish idiot smoking they still don't realise it may cause them ill health later.

But stop there.

I will not allow a law to stop me from smoking at all in my own car when I am alone or when the other occupants have no objection and there are no minors in the car.

What is next, ban barbecues? Sue your pal who hosted you and fed you a hundred times during your life, because you got lung cancer and you suspect it was from his barbecue?

Insane!

You too have the right - to keep away from my car and my barbie.

And from my or your own Aga, your wood-burning stove, and your real fireplace. They too may give you lung cancer. All smoke may do that.

So I want people to stop being ridiculous, use common sense, and stop trying to stop everyone else from doing things they don't agree with.

I have no intention of trying to stop you living as you wish in your own car nor in your own home. By all means have a pig-sty and litter your floor with butt-ends, and hoard 50 years of rubbish and animal faeces in them and live and sleep in all of that, if that is what you want.

This is your right and this is what I would defend for you even though I don't agree.

So by the same token, let me smoke in my own car when I am alone or when the other occupants allow me to do so and there are no children in it.

Or eat my sandwich or an apple in the car while I am driving, or sip a bottle of water or juice or Pepsi. Beer and anything alcoholic - no, I have the common sense to not do that.

When you stop me from doing this then you are taking away my rights to live my life as I wish.

That is a serious matter to me and there will eventually come a point where I for one will not accept it under any circumstances.

Your own life will not be of much value to any of you too without the freedom of being able to choose what to do in your own car and your own home.

Many smokers demand that right in other countries but say nothing in your own country - why? Speak up. It's your right here too.

At the moment.

 

[Alfie]

One is not an adult in the eyes of the law if you are under 18.

Not strictly true. In the eyes of the law someone of seventeen can be tried as an adult and can go to an adult prison.

 

[Goliath]

I am definitely 'for' this new law, I agree with your point made early on that it is 'sad' or a 'shame' that some people are so stupid that the government NEED to bring in laws to stop people harming children, it should be common sense.

However I'm not sure I understand your argument, you seem to be in favour of not smoking in a car with children, so in my mind you agree with this new law on that point? You seem to be getting all het up about not being allowed to smoke in your own car when you are on your own, for which there is no law, current or proposed, stopping you from doing this. You are free to smoke in your own car by yourself or in the company of adults.

Really, is this already law? Not a sandwich, without using a knife as well as a fork at the same time?

Or an apple?

Or a fig?

How about a tomato?

Ah! Don't worry, just accept it, it's OK, ice-cream must be OK surely!

And not a bottle of water?

Or an orange juice?

Or a Pepsi?

How about Coca-cola?

Defintely not a coffee, it's probably hot and...!

The litteral "Don't Drink and Drive" gone mad?

There is NO law in the UK which prevents you from eating or drinking (non alcoholic drinks) whilst driving. If you were driving dangerously or carelessly as a result of trying to eat or drink whilst driving then you can be prosecuted for dangerous or careless driving, but there is nothing to say you can't eat/drink whilst driving as long as you can do so safely.

But when I do want a cigar in my car, I am going to have one.

Go ahead, no one is stopping you.

You need to be just a little bit more tolerant and let people like us die off in peace while at the same time trying to prevent young people from starting.

If you had an (adult) Son or Daughter who was self harming by way of cutting themselves and you could see it was getting worse and worse and you knew it would eventually kill them, would you tell them to carry on and kill themselves or would you actively try and help them to stop?

I'm not pleading for sympathy, I am raising 2 points here.

1 - at which age, 16 or 18 is an adult? If 18 then there should be consistency - bans on under-18s doing anything without their parents' consent, which includes everything the parents sensibly do not want their children to do/experience,

I understand why you have chosen 16 and 18, but why have you excluded other ages, for example 12 and 15? At 12 and 15 you can go and watch a 12 or 15 age related film at a cinema without your parents present or permission but that does not make you an adult, nor does any of the 'freedoms' one gets when they turn 16. 18 is when a person is legally deemed an adult in this country.

and:

2 - where will others stop trying to control everything I do in my own car, and then extend it to prevent me from living as I wish in my very own house?

Just because...? What?

When it stops harming children around you. 'Just because...' some of us think that harming children is a serious problem.

As stated above, there is no law against you smoking in your own car if you are not in the company of children, likewise there is no law against you smoking in your own house.

You want respect? Give it first.

That works both ways. In your opinion who should 'give it first' and why?

I know there are fools, cretins, imbeciles, who smoke with their kids in the car and I despise them too and I am in favour of a law to force them to stop because as we all know, those kids may not be able to persuade the idiot to stop. And if the kids don't mind the selfish idiot smoking they still don't realise it may cause them ill health later.

But stop there.

They have...

I will not allow a law to stop me from smoking at all in my own car when I am alone or when the other occupants have no objection and there are no minors in the car.

I understand you want to freedom to smoke in your own car, for which there is no law against. But say for arguments sake there was a law introduced down the line to stop you from doing so would you be prepared to go to prison and sacrifice all your freedom to smoke in your car? If so, how do you view the case of 'the naked rambler' who has spent the past 'x' years in prison because every time he is let out he walks naked out of court and is rearrested immediately? Obviously he doesn't think he is harming anyone, physically or emotionally, but the law says he is and he has chosen to forgo all of his freedom for the sake of having the 'freedom' to walk 10 steps every 3 years wearing no clothes.

What is next, ban barbecues? Sue your pal who hosted you and fed you a hundred times during your life, because you got lung cancer and you suspect it was from his barbecue?

Insane!

You too have the right - to keep away from my car and my barbie.

it is not always possible to 'keep away' from someone's smoke, whether it be cigarette or a BBQ. Newcastle has been a 'smoke free' city for a number of years, no BBQ's allowed, no open fires allowed, no bonfires allowed (ironically 'smoking' wasn't banned) because the quality of the air got so bad that people couldn't get away from the smoke. It doesn't just float up into the sky an disappear.

This is your right and this is what I would defend for you even though I don't agree.

As above would you defend it if it was a relative/loved one you could see was going to die from self harming?

So by the same token, let me smoke in my own car when I am alone or when the other occupants allow me to do so and there are no children in it.

Or eat my sandwich or an apple in the car while I am driving, or sip a bottle of water or juice or Pepsi. Beer and anything alcoholic - no, I have the common sense to not do that.

Again, you are allowed to do all of this!

It is great that you have the common sense not to drink alcohol whilst driving, most people do, however there are some that don't and they are the reason the drink driving law was brought in. Exactly the same with this new 'no smoking in your car with children' law.

 

[Frontstep]

Hmm, So your off to Pakistan 7th in the world for lung disease deaths and 1st for deaths from Syphilis enjoy yourself

Or China 2nd in the world for lung disease deaths you could have a two centre holiday.

 

[Rappey69]

There is NO law in the UK which prevents you from eating or drinking (non alcoholic drinks) whilst driving. If you were driving dangerously or carelessly as a result of trying to eat or drink whilst driving then you can be prosecuted for dangerous or careless driving, but there is nothing to say you can't eat/drink whilst driving as long as you can do so safely.

There have been many instances where people have - put on lipstick, eaten a kitkat, brushed their hair etc, all whilst stopped at traffic lights, and ended up prosecuted by way of lack of care and attention..
Stop on the side of the road, neutral, parking brake on, pick up your mobile and see what can happen !

I absolutely agree totally ridiculous !

 

[JimM]

Goliath- Rappey69 said there is a law against eating and drinking whilst driving.

I've not come across it.

You say my smoking in my car affects other people.

Wrong.

You say I am permitted to smoke in my car alone.

I know that.

But there is already a move to make a new law to prevent that, and it will be signed and sealed again as this and others have been, without me having a chance to vote against it.

Many people will be prepared to physically display their disapproval of such a law, I won't be the only one. No, you will not control my life to that degree, I will not permit it.

Respect: Most smokers already showed it by not smoking in other peoples' presence long before we were banned and then ostracised.

So it IS time for non-smokers to show a little respect to smokers and some tolerance. We, the majority of smokers have already displayed TONS of it and continue to do so.

We are little goody-goodies who are not given the appreciation for having given so much way, but we are continually pushed into smaller and smaller corners.

About age - under-16 and under-18 also covers all ages below those.

Point 1 is that Brits have to decide what is the age, 16 or 18? and apply it to all.

No, parents do not have sole right over their own children's lives or discipline. In my view they certainly should have that right. But, that too was taken away in a similar fashion, by similarly dim-witted, gullible and short-sighted people.

As for doing more to prevent loved ones from smoking etc - I mentioned above too, when a person we are close to should stop smoking we try to persuade them.

But physical intervention is prohibited, even by a parent to his/her child. If you are a UK resident you will already know this.

Refer to my response about the hypothetical beautiful young lady smoking herslef to death. If I or anyone else had tried to snatch away her cigarette we would probably be attacked by others, definitely we could be arrested for assault. If I had touched the boy on the tube I could have been arrested for assault.

To recap: this law is welcomed by me, as long as things stop there.

But...

My point 2 is that I expect a subsequent law to prevent me from smoking in my car at all. If that is allowed, then next will be to extend the prevention of people smoking in open areas too. Then after that, in their own homes.

This is victimisation and prejudice against smokers by people who like to think of themselves and portray themselves as fair and unbiased. Not so. It has to stop now, the "enough" point has been reached.

 

[Rappey69]

Thats two of you that cant read what i wrote ?
I said " you cant eat or drink whilst driving anymore"
I didnt say a word about any law.
People get prosecuted for it, therefore by reasonable deduction you are not allowed to.
Most smokers have respect for others and therefore dont complain when getting shafted yet again, and guess the law is necessary for the few that have no respect for others .

 

[JimM]

Hmm, So your off to Pakistan 7th in the world for lung disease deaths and 1st for deaths from Syphilis enjoy yourself

Or China 2nd in the world for lung disease deaths you could have a two centre holiday.

Continue making things up, it's all amusing... rubbish.

So think forward - you have banned all smoking, stopped all diesel pollution, all diseases have been eradicated, and people only die of old age. And that is a very big number of years, a very, very long time to be retired.

In old age they need medication and hospitalisation for all sorts of minor illnesses and operations which don't kill them.

But nobody can afford to keep them alive. They aren't working, not earning, not productive, and there are not enough revenues from the workforce to keep them. Nobody wants them at home. So they will be taken to live in homes looking out the window just waiting to die, their families don't have the time to visit them every day, not even for an hour, it's just too much to remember they gave them life and raised them.

So what shall we do?

I know - freeze them, suspended animation in case any relative wants to talk to them some years from now. And it saves so much money.

You want to talk nonsense? This could be you one day. Then it won't be nonsense.

All because nobody said anything to prevent it, because it didn't affect them - at the time.

So some of you in the UK can't have a barbie, eh? And nobody will speak out for you to get this stupid law relieved so you can entertain your friends and family - in your own homes? Ah - deja vue in my first post, or what?

Tough, isn't it - but you let it happen in good faith, because you trusted the people you allow to run your lives to be fair to you once the problem is solved. But they didn't think to relieve you, did they.

Now you know you couldn't trust them, because they kept the law against barbies even long after the original cause and pollution has been dealt with.

So, this is a good example of another of your freedoms that I referred to being taken away by force. Now I wonder if you can see my postiion a little better perhaps? Perhaps not? Thought not.

What to do to help you out? I will be one who supports you, send me a petition to sign. This is a promise. Barbies do not cause that amount of pollution to return.

Like in this case, there will be many who say "Quite right, ban all barbies, ban all fires, ban all diesels, ban... everyone who doesn't think they way I do!"

What to do? - put a petition together and try the "civilised" way first, lobby your MP. But he/she won't be sympathetic unless you present him/her with the possibility of losing his seat next election.

As you will see, one controls all.

What next? Ask for tolerance from those people who pretend to be "fair" - but are not unless they are affected themselves.

Anti-minority prejudices come from people who are intolerant of others. It is against the UK law to be intolerant. Isn't it.