Smoking illegal in your car with under-18-year-old "Children" inside?!!

[Alfie]

Goliath- Rappey69 said there is a law against eating and drinking whilst driving.

I've not come across it.

You say my smoking in my car affects other people.

Wrong.

You say I am permitted to smoke in my car alone.

I know that.

But there is already a move to make a new law to prevent that, and it will be signed and sealed again as this and others have been, without me having a chance to vote against it.

Many people will be prepared to physically display their disapproval of such a law, I won't be the only one. No, you will not control my life to that degree, I will not permit it.

Respect: Most smokers already showed it by not smoking in other peoples' presence long before we were banned and then ostracised.

So it IS time for non-smokers to show a little respect to smokers and some tolerance. We, the majority of smokers have already displayed TONS of it and continue to do so.

We are little goody-goodies who are not given the appreciation for having given so much way, but we are continually pushed into smaller and smaller corners.

About age - under-16 and under-18 also covers all ages below those.

Point 1 is that Brits have to decide what is the age, 16 or 18? and apply it to all.

No, parents do not have sole right over their own children's lives or discipline. In my view they certainly should have that right. But, that too was taken away in a similar fashion, by similarly dim-witted, gullible and short-sighted people.

As for doing more to prevent loved ones from smoking etc - I mentioned above too, when a person we are close to should stop smoking we try to persuade them.

But physical intervention is prohibited, even by a parent to his/her child. If you are a UK resident you will already know this.

Refer to my response about the hypothetical beautiful young lady smoking herslef to death. If I or anyone else had tried to snatch away her cigarette we would probably be attacked by others, definitely we could be arrested for assault. If I had touched the boy on the tube I could have been arrested for assault.

To recap: this law is welcomed by me, as long as things stop there.

But...

My point 2 is that I expect a subsequent law to prevent me from smoking in my car at all. If that is allowed, then next will be to extend the prevention of people smoking in open areas too. Then after that, in their own homes.

This is victimisation and prejudice against smokers by people who like to think of themselves and portray themselves as fair and unbiased. Not so. It has to stop now, the "enough" point has been reached.

Are We the non smokers supposed to be grateful that you smokers have eased off imposing your filth and carcinogens upon us? Sorry, but you havnt gone anywhere near far enough yet. We the non smokers are not polluting your air with carcinogens which may kill you, so why should you be allowed to do it to us?

Smoking is a filthy disgusting habit that costs the NHS billions, costs lives and is becoming evermore socially unacceptable. The day it is banned completely cannot come too soon.

If I decided that I enjoyed spraying asbestos dust around me, id pretty quickly be stopped and no-one would come near me. Ditto smokers imho.

 

[SL63 Mark]

Are We the non smokers supposed to be grateful that you smokers have eased off imposing your filth and carcinogens upon us? Sorry, but you havnt gone anywhere near far enough yet. We the non smokers are not polluting your air with carcinogens which may kill you, so why should you be allowed to do it to us?

Smoking is a filthy disgusting habit that costs the NHS billions, costs lives and is becoming evermore socially unacceptable. The day it is banned completely cannot come too soon.

If I decided that I enjoyed spraying asbestos dust around me, id pretty quickly be stopped and no-one would come near me. Ditto smokers imho.

Alfie as an ex smoker, I used to get aeriated about smokers, but I've learnt they are not worth wasting my breath on anymore. Do you remember the days when you used to sit in the cinema and people would blow smoke on the back of your neck ? Things have certainly improved since those days.

 

[JimM]

Very rarely do I see smokers around here, I couldn't hazard a guess as to the ratio. I'll bet more people fart in supermarkets now than smoke in public.

I see the same, crazycarb, smokers are giving up, there are fewer and fewer, and I am glad that fewer young people are starting too.

Of my age most have given up so that their children have them round a bit longer, they don't smell,they don't have to ostracise thmselves,they save money and I suppose they are thinking of others more than themselves.

Frontstep most of us already thought of others around us, for many years.

I'm not campaigning against smokers stopping. I am against laws to stop people smoking when they are not anywhere near others who don't smoke or do not want them to smoke.

Are We the non smokers supposed to be grateful that you smokers have eased off imposing your filth and carcinogens upon us? Sorry, but you havnt gone anywhere near far enough yet. We the non smokers are not polluting your air with carcinogens which may kill you, so why should you be allowed to do it to us?

Imposing? We have complied with laws which we believed were reasonable, to not smoke in buildings. Now in cars with kids, I agree.

But in my own car when I am alone, and that is coming next, see other countries have started on that road already - NO! Absolutely no way, Jose. You do NOT have the right and I will stand against you.

Smoking is a filthy disgusting habit that costs the NHS billions, costs lives and is becoming evermore socially unacceptable. The day it is banned completely cannot come too soon.

Absolute ignorant twaddle and rubbish and you know it.

The billions from smokers is in your uninformed imagination. Smoking is not the total cost of health support in the UK. The population of older people has increased beyond expectations and the NHS has been robbed by consecutive governments. Thousands of people who never smoked and have never been exposed to tobacco smoke have cancer, lung problems, and die in hospitals and nursing homes of other causes. There are far fewer smokers than there were 20 years ago yet the numbers of deaths (in percentage) have not decreased significantly. If they had then the anti-smokers campaign would have emerged as clearly and undeniably successful and would have been eased.

But intolerant gullible and uninformed people like you are blaming everyone and everything around you - fat people, diesel fumes, ozone layer, global warming, oil. How about gas cookers next? Gas-fired central heating produces what? Carbon Monoxide - a killer. Lots of it. You and we are all exposed to it constantly.

If I decided that I enjoyed spraying asbestos dust around me, id pretty quickly be stopped and no-one would come near me. Ditto smokers imho.

So - another really unintelligent comparison - gas vs dust. Clever. Not.

There is no residual danger from my smoke in an open area, nor in the confines of my car when I am alone, nor in my garden to my neighbours or even to my family. There is no analogy between smoking and asbestos, get "real". If you had said diesel fumes from a badly smoking car or van or bus I might be tempted to agree. If you said cannabis or marijuana I would disagree. If you said Ganja I would disagree. If you said Ebola I would agree. But cancer from smoking is not as infectious as even a common cold.

Your complete intolerance of others is not only unintelligent and unreasonable, it is very well described by this: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=BIGOT&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=_2EEVeawMdXdap7SgpgO

It is you who give no respect. I could say that almost all smokers have given way on request, with a little grumbling but no major resistance, and because of no resistance, people like you who are not even affected, but have a neurotic fear issue, have taken courage and slowly demanded more and more. But reasonable smoking people, even I, have not smoked in offices or in restaurants, or even in the presence of others for years before it became law.

But you want to go further, remove all of that basic right. Sorry, pal, it is not yours to take, policing or not you will not stop me from smoking in my car, in a wide open space, in the street, in a field, in a park, or in my own garden or in my house.

Reasonable tolerance of others is what soceity, living in numbers is all about, we have shown restrain and respect, but people like you push us further and further into a corner and the more we give the more you think we are easy, and take more courage. But you don't realise what "the limit" means. You have reversed the role my friend, it's people like you who are intolerant and unreasonable.

Alfie as an ex smoker, I used to get aeriated about smokers, but I've learnt they are not worth wasting my breath on anymore. Do you remember the days when you used to sit in the cinema and people would blow smoke on the back of your neck ? Things have certainly improved since those days.

Mark those days are long gone and we all appreciate the improvement, smokers too. It's not a case of wasting your breath, it's always worth trying to persuade a smoker to give up, I did it too when I saw a young lad smoking, or a guy smoking and wheezing or with other breathing difficulties.

Thankfully it's very rare to see anyone in that state these days, and that is a good thing.

But it's not OK to do it by force.

This law against smoking with kids in the car is fine with me, even at 18 although my sarcasm there is that "kids" are adults at 16 and can do absolutely anything they want against their parents wishes, but are considered as "children" for this. Hmmm, no logic lost there in our law-makers.

As far as I and most smokers are concerned, this law is OK since there are idiots who smoke in their cars with their own kids.

But they are only a few.

Alfie is in the 10% who are immovable in that they want to ban all smoking completely, anywhere, everywhere. That is not acceptable.

There are probably another 10% who will insist on total freedom to smoke anywhere and everywhere they please. That is not acceptable either.

Both of those percentages are typical in any disagreement. Neither will respect the right of the other.

But the ones who count are the "Ordinary" people, the 80% in any situation who usually are not concerned, and say nothing, allow what will be to be. They have forgotten the two foundations of civilised "freedom" which I raised earlier - to respect others, and to protect the reasonable rights of others. This means having reasonable tolerance, and fighting for tolerance by all, and - for all.

That was the driving force during two World Wars, when millions died for the mere ideology of these "freedoms". They are now lost because people are idle and are turning on each other for idiotic reasons. By keeping silent we have allowed restrictions which are ridiculous, accompanied by ludicrous "freedoms" such as those I've described already which raised some PC eyebrows from those who have not been close to those situations and have not seen the distress of those parents. Yeah. let the kid do what he/she wants, you have no right to stop him./her. No right? When I'm the kid's goddam father? I think not. But try it.

It is not the right of others to prevent us from smoking completely. We have already given way enough, we have proved our tolerance. What after? Laws against chewing gum? Against farting loudly? How about...

How many others of you can't have a barbecue in your own garden? Even though there is no longer smog?

Then? How about turning more strongly against fat people - just because you are slim, you will scorn them and be happy to ostracise them and penalise them and harass them too until they die out?

How many of you own diesels? 20+ years ago there was a huge pressure on the public to move to diesels because of Carbon Monoxide pollution from petrol engines. Diesels produce far less, but now diesel owners too are already facing more and more of the same scorn and anger that smokers are facing.

Then what? The rest will turn on the next victim - and the next. And sooner or later that will be... You. But you will be too old and too alone to do anything to help yourself.

Think deeper and you will remember other laws that do affect you, and not me, which you do not agree with.

My message is that this is the last "reasonable" law against smokers. It's not a bad one. But the next will invoke reactions from many who are pushed to their limits of tolerance.

Let me tell you - I am fat, I smoke, and I own a big fat diesel without a DPF (but don't rush to your keyboard just yet, it doesn't smoke excessively, it is well below the MoT test level limit, and - it's a Mercedes).

But I will cost the NHS far more if I am forced to stop smoking and my car is scrapped by force so that I will have less to endanger me and live to 120.

Put effort into stopping young idiots from smoking cannabis, from swallowing drugs, and from injecting themselves with Heroine etc., all of which are currently illegal but not sufficiently enforced. There are far more of them lying in the streets and in hovels and in hospitals than there are dying smokers.

 

[Crazycarb]

Hi Jim. Looks like you had some spare time at 02.19!!! this morning.

You must be applauded for all that comment, but unfortunately it appears that you are still trying to get us to see it your way.
Unfortunately, whether you type 1 page or 10 it ain't gonna work. In my book there will never ever be a pro smoking debate that is successful/laudable.
(except the pro smokers forums). Well done for trying though.

 

[Crazycarb]

There is someone who may support you though.

 

[Frontstep]

I get the freedom argument but this undermines any credibilty you gained,


Originally Posted by Alfie View Post
Smoking is a filthy disgusting habit that costs the NHS billions, costs lives and is becoming evermore socially unacceptable. The day it is banned completely cannot come too soon.


"Absolute ignorant twaddle and rubbish and you know it."



Somehow you manage to imbibe something that makes you think smoking doesn't cost society billions, never mind the loss to relatives.

I can only think you don't go near hospitals and funerals.

 

[Alfie]

I see the same, ..................................and in hospitals than there are dying smokers.

blah blah blah.. At the end of the day smoking is filthy and will get banned. Even in cars. I can smell a smoker in a car in front of me. Filthy disgusting individual who knows its killing him/her but still does it to him/her self, their relatives and the rest of us.

The residue from my habit is Urine, would you like a glass of urine chucked over you randomly?

There is no sane or rational argument for allowing smoking anywhere in a civilised society. Stuff your 'its my right and freedom' rubbish. Its not your right. Its the right of everyone else to live their lives in a smoke free environment wherever they may be.

If you think it doesnt cost billions then just wander round a cardio vascular wards and see the people who have had limbs amputated due to poor circulation caused by smoking. And of course also take a wander round the oncology wards too. If you want to give up, just attend a postmortem of someone who has died of lung cancer. You wont touch another cigarette again unless you have a death wish.

Some people are so blinded by their 'its my right' rubbish that they fail to see the common good.

 

[EmilysDad]

...

The residue from my habit is Urine, would you like a glass of urine chucked over you randomly? ...

A bit more than that ..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol_consumption

 

[Alfie]

A bit more than that ..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol_consumption

Who said anything about alcohol?

The residue from drinking water is urine. Its about the residue being inflicted upon others.

 

[C16RKC]

Wow I started to read the original post and could not believe what I was reading, I had to start again...

Someone is actually moaning about smokers being given a tough rap!!? And you want the right to puff away with 17 year old non-smokers - at an age where they are impressionable and vulnerable. If anything the ban should be for passengers of any age, not under 18.

I feel that smoking with a non-smoker is down right disgraceful whether they consent or not. If I were in charge of this country I'd ban the disgusting things entirely.

JimM you should be ashamed of yourself, smoking is a health hazard and anything that helps to expose less people to cigarette smoke should be applauded not discouraged.

 

[television]

Over time we have been told that many thing are not good for us. First was butter, we were told that margarine was better for you. in fairly recent weeks we are now told the butter is OK, or no where near as bad as what we were told. Tell you what, in the summer put an empty margarine carton outside and a butter one, the flies will not go near the margarine carton, but they will the butter. Butter is one of the only things that can dissolve natural fats in the body, and now helping some overweight people in loosing weight, where as previously they were told to avoid it.

Back in 1985 we were told that eating too many eggs are not good for us, now we are told no problem with them

 

[Alex Crow]

It seems amazing that as recently as 2007 you could light up in a pub!

And so there are now regular pub goers who would not even be there, if we were still stuck in those dark times of smokers freely poisoning the rest of us.

I would support a ban of smoking in any confined space with others present who do not consent, and a total ban with under 18s present.

 

[drmw]

It seems amazing that as recently as 2007 you could light up in a pub!

And so there are now regular pub goers who would not even be there, if we were still stuck in those dark times of smokers freely poisoning the rest of us.

I would support a ban of smoking in any confined space with others present who do not consent, and a total ban with under 18s present.

And rather a lot of pubs which are not there now due to the ban

 

[EmilysDad]

It seems amazing that as recently as 2007 you could light up in a pub!

And so there are now regular pub goers who would not even be there, if we were still stuck in those dark times of smokers freely poisoning the rest of us.

I would support a ban of smoking in any confined space with others present who do not consent, and a total ban with under 18s present.

There used to be a No Smoking pub in Bury before the enforced ban .... that was the one that nobody went into. All the pubs where smoking was allowed were full. IMHO it should have been up to the individual pubs whether they allowed it or not .......

 

[Crazycarb]

I've got a feeling JimM will be having a sleepless night again and be bangin the keyboard in the early hours with the veins in his forehead about to burst out!

 

[stwat]

I've got a feeling JimM will be having a sleepless night again and be bangin the keyboard in the early hours with the veins in his forehead about to burst out!

 

[Alfie]

Still think smoking is okay?

 

[Miffy]

Still think smoking is okay?

are there any similar images comparing average non smoking UK lungs to a non smoker in a country where there is little industry or cars burning fossil fuels?

 

[Alfie]

are there any similar images comparing average non smoking UK lungs to a non smoker in a country where there is little industry or cars burning fossil fuels?

I dont have any images of that but think it will be hard to find as the cigarette companies aggressively target the poorer countries where there is little or no industry.

 

[PovertySpec]

cigarette companies aggressively target the poorer countries

It wasn't that long ago I was working on installations in major UK night clubs.

I was surprised to see dolly birds on roller skates going round placing fags into the mouths of clubbers.

If that's not drug pushing I don't know what is.