so are these legal or not?

[Yugguy]

You can do that with ultra-bright H7 lamps like the Nightbreaker Unlimited/ Laser, with the added benefit that they will actually work in your headlamp units as they were designed to do so.

You know I can't put my finger on it but it feels like you are not a fan of aftermarket hids.

 

[Craiglxviii]

OK quick fact and data. Osram Night Breaker Unlimited H7 are rated at a minimum of 1500lm (this from their product datasheet) and interestingly so are the Laser lamps too. I'm not sure where the Laser lamps get their additional brightness, it looks to be in forms other than H7.

Osram Xenarc Night Breaker D1S & 2S are rated at 3200lm, slightly over double the brightness of the H7 form.

These are all at 4700K nominal colour temperature.

 

[Craiglxviii]

You know I can't put my finger on it but it feels like you are not a fan of aftermarket hids.

It's not so much that I'm not a fan of them, it's that they're genuinely dangerous, genuinely illegal; they just don't work in a reflector assembly that is not designed for them, and there are other things that can do the job just as well but safely and legally.

I had to do an awful lot of work with really honest-to-God scary-bright lamps (we're talking brightness of between 1000-3000 lumens here... I am on about brightnesses of over 18,000lm, at this point the light beam contains enough photonic energy to burn through 1.5mm HDPE at 6" range...) and it gives you a real appreciation of why lights are designed the way they are and to do what. And the first thing they're all designed to do is to comply with the very restrictive regulations that have evolved to keep people safe on the roads.

 

[Botus]

E marked is a total irrelevance. The sheer quantity of fake Night Breaker and Philips high performance bulbs and indeed many aftermarket std bulbs are all carrying an E mark, which means your more likely to get fakes than real ones.

These upgraded bulbs pop with alarming frequency so many will be down to one light which is far more dangerous than the hoodies we can clearly see with upgraded bulbs ( I've had to swap out 3 that all did less than 6 months ).

All the upgraded ones I seen and fitted for many others are pathetic and not worth the cost or the loss to reliability.

Have I been involved in dangerous situations with other on coming vehicles with one headlamp out YES.

Has my driving been safer for all road users by using front fog lights YES and their use should be mandatory on many vehicles with pathetic lights.

Has any vehicle using front fog lights ever dazzled me or caused an incident NO of course it hasn't.

Is my Merc with Night vision more dangerous at night than ones with normal headlights YES.

Do I to get wound up by these silly bulbs others use YES. Near me it must be more than 10% use them. Does it cause me to crash, nearly crash or even have a slight moment NO of course it doesn't.

 

[Westheath]

Rule 236
You MUST NOT use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226) as they dazzle other road users and can obscure your brake lights.
You MUST switch them off when visibility improves.

Law RVLR regs 25 & 27

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/driving-in-adverse-weather-conditions-226-to-237


Requirements about the use of headlamps and front fog lamps

25.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle which is fitted with obligatory dipped-beam headlamps unless every such lamp is kept lit–

(a)during the hours of darkness, except on a road which is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 by virtue of a system of street lighting when it is lit; and

(b)in seriously reduced visibility.

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1) do not apply–

(a)in the case of a motor vehicle fitted with one obligatory dipped-beam headlamp or a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if a main-beam headlamp or a front fog lamp is kept lit;

(b)in the case of a motor vehicle, other than a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination, fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if–

(i)a pair of main-beam headlamps is kept lit; or

(ii)in seriously reduced visibility, a pair of front fog lamps which is so fitted that the outermost part of the illuminated area of each lamp in the pair is not more than 400 mm from the outer edge of the vehicle is kept lit;

(c)to a vehicle being drawn by another vehicle;

(d)to a vehicle while being used to propel a snow plough; or

(e)to a vehicle which is parked.

(3) For the purposes of this regulation a headlamp shall not be regarded as lit if its intensity is reduced by a dim-dip device.


Restrictions on the use of lamps other than those to which regulation 24 refers

27. No person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle on which any lamp, hazard warning signal device or warning beacon of a type specified in an item in column 2 of the Table below is used in a manner specified in that item in column 3.

TABLE

(1) (2) (3)
Item No. Type of lamp, hazard warning signal device or warning beacon Manner of use prohibited
1 Headlamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.
(b)Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
2 Front fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
3 Rear fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to the driver of a following vehicle.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Save in the case of an emergency vehicle, used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
4 Reversing lamp Used so as to be lit except for the purpose of reversing the vehicle.
5 Hazard warning signal device
Used other than–

(i)to warn persons using the road of a temporary obstruction when the vehicle is at rest; or
(ii)on a motorway or unrestricted dual-carriageway, to warn following drivers of a need to slow down due to a temporary obstruction ahead; or
(iii)in the case of a bus, to summon assistance for the driver or any person acting as a conductor or inspector on the vehicle.
6 Warning beacon emitting blue light and special warning lamp
Used so as to be lit except–

(i)at the scene of an emergency; or
(ii)when it is necessary or desirable either to indicate to persons using the road the urgency of the purpose for which the vehicle is being used, or to warn persons of the presence of the vehicle or a hazard on the road.
7 Warning beacon emitting amber light
Used so as to be lit except–

(i)at the scene of an emergency;
(ii)when it is necessary or desirable to warn persons of the presence of the vehicle; and
(iii)in the case of a breakdown vehicle, while it is being used in connection with, and in the immediate vicinity of, an accident or breakdown, or while it is being used to draw a broken-down vehicle.
8 Warning beacon emitting green light Used so as to be lit except whilst occupied by a medical practitioner registered by the General Medical Council (whether with full, provisional or limited registration) and used for the purposes of an emergency.
9 Warning beacon emitting yellow light Used so as to be lit on a road.
10 Work lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to the driver of any vehicle.
(b)Used so as to be lit except for the purpose of illuminating a working area, accident, breakdown or works in the vicinity of the vehicle.
11 Any other lamp Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/25/made











.

 

[L John]

Good post Westheath but I found out many years ago, there's no point in arguing or even debating with people who insist on fog lights in good weather.

 

[LostKiwi]

Good post Westheath but I found out many years ago, there's no point in arguing or even debating with people who insist on fog lights in good weather.

True. Its because it looks well cool init....

 

[L John]

True. Its because it looks well cool init....

Exactly.
Fog lights are useless for distance so no good at all for seeing down something like a dark country lane.
I understand why chavs started using them, there were not many cars with factory front fogs so it was a way of showing off.
Nowadays most cars have them but still they insist on looking cool.
Well, at least they think they do.

 

[Westheath]

Its illegal and should be punished.

In fact punish all chavs................

Ok its a pet hate of mine, but they cant see what they look like when inside so whats the point ?

"Bad day sir"

Yesssssssssssss

 

[LostKiwi]

There's a simple little test to see how much assistance they give - switch to side lights and try and drive a dark lane on fogs.
I have only ever had one car where I could do more than 20mph on fogs alone. The rest I may have well used a glow worm in a jar. In fact the glow worm would probably have been better.

If you can't drive by them at 20 mph just what help do they give at 40 or 50? None. On a wet road all they do is throw more light on a wet road surface to reflect back up into the eyes of an oncoming driver (and yes it does do that - I had it three times on the way home tonight where the fog light reflected off a puddle into my eyes).

I always feel it my duty as a concerned driver to flash people driving with their fog lights on to warn them of the fact in case they've forgotten to turn them off....

 

[Yugguy]

I NEVER use fog lights alone. In fact I hardly use them at all, especially fronts.

I do like them though as part of the convenience lighting when you unlock at night. Now that my sides are ice white led the fogs look yellow in comparison so I am going to fit some H11 ice white led bulbs because yes, they look better.

If that makes me a chav, well, I did grow up on a 70s Northern council estate. I went to a posh grammar school though, does that help?

 

[PovertySpec]

I always feel it my duty as a concerned driver to flash people driving with their fog lights on to warn them of the fact in case they've forgotten to turn them off....

The Highway Code clearly states:

'Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there.

Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message'

The law is the law

 

[LostKiwi]

The Highway Code clearly states:

'Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there.

Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message'

The law is the law

True. Consider me chastised.

 

[PovertySpec]

True. Consider me chastised.

It's OK to break the law!

Few rules though: 1/ don't have a go others for doing so 2/ don't tell everyone you also break the law and 3/ don't get caught

___________
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
Douglas Bader.

 

[LostKiwi]

It's OK to break the law!

Few rules though: 1/ don't have a go others for doing so 2/ don't tell everyone you also break the law and 3/ don't get caught

Ah but although I said I felt it was my duty I never said I actually did it....;-)

___________
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
Douglas Bader.

Ah but although I said I felt it was my duty I never said I actually did it....

 

[PovertySpec]

Ah but although I said I felt it was my duty I never said I actually did it....

Sophistry!

I'll wager, Sir, that you have a car full of of flags, whistles and marine flares to deploy when you see someone else doing something wrong!

That was a joke, obv

 

[Craiglxviii]

The Highway Code clearly states:

'Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there.

Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message'

The law is the law

So within the law one can flash them to warn that you are there (and are being needlessly dazzled by their foglights).

 

[Craiglxviii]

Sophistry!

I'll wager, Sir, that you have a car full of of flags, whistles and marine flares to deploy when you see someone else doing something wrong!

That was a joke, obv

That's just silly.

LK is a sensible man- I can attest to this (he's also a jolly nice chap btw).

He would use road flares.

 

[LostKiwi]

That's just silly.

LK is a sensible man- I can attest to this (he's also a jolly nice chap btw).

He would use road flares.

You cheated - you looked in my boot....

 

[Botus]

Exactly.
Fog lights are useless for distance so no good at all for seeing down something like a dark country lane.

fog lights are PERFECT for seeing down country lanes, they illuminate the edges of the road so one can clearly see where to drive... if you feel they are insufficient because they don't illuminate at distance perhaps you are going too fast ?

and as you clearly state the don't do distance so CAN'T POSSIBLY dazzle anyone. so there use is not troublesome to any other road user, but clearly enhances safety for everyone on the road !!!

any police officer trying to enforce this outdated law on modern cars should be sacked immediately. It was introduced last century when big lights with poor beam patterns where mounted above the bumpers and is a total irrelevance nowadays