Sprinter 308cdi Warm Start Problem

[mister_cee333]

Hi, I have a 2002 Sprinter 308 cdi with the 2150cc engine and 40k miles. It has had the ECU file replaced to improve performance and can be a bit smoky if you ask it to perform.

Since I have had the van (4½ months and 17k miles) it has been a bit slow to start when cold but I put it down to the fact it was cold.

However, in the last few days it has been winding up for longer periods when starting warm until today when it simply won't start unless you have the accelerator pressed to the floor. This came on after a round trip of around 300 miles. I have visually checked the fuel lines around the filter etc and can't see any air bubbles, there is no smell of diesel or sign of any leakage and fuel economy is as usual. I plan to carry out a service at the weekend as it is near the 18k interval (even tho the computer says approx another 3k) but I would like to ask if any of your learned members could point towards any similar faults they have encountered and the remedy. I understand it is the same engine fitted to many merc's including the c220cdi.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

Hi Mister Cee

What are your starting symptoms?

Once started does it run smooth straight away or does it 'miss' for a few seconds? If it does miss this could point to a failing injector/s. I have suffered from this. I would also consider changing the fuel filter just to be on the safe side and this may aggravate or cure any air leaks that could be occuring at the filter connections. The glow plugs are redundant in these engines so don't think about changing those as it will make no difference.

I don't think that the ECU re-map would be affecting the starting unless this problem appeared at the exact same time as the re-map. Who did the re-map, you or a previous owner? and which company carried it out?

As far as the servicing goes, I would say stick with the Assyst intervals and run to the 20+k point for the oil changes. I have been getting about 23k intervals with my 316 sprinter and oil analysis shows that the oil is still good at these intervals.

Just a thought on the poor starting, it might be worth sticking a strong dose of injector cleaner in and seeing if that improves things, though I doubt it will (you never know!)

Let us know how you get on.

 

[mister_cee333]

Thanks for the response Steve,

I seem to have cured 95% of the problem by changing the fuel filter and the feed pipe complete. I also changed the air filter (dirty but probably not choked). However I still have a small air bubble in the system and I will change the jubilee clip once I get one the right size in the next few days.

In answer to your questions (in case it can help any other members) it started 'clean' once it started, and I had the re-map done in Glasgow (Hillington) not long after buying the van by a company called Ashkirk Services (also known as Dashfixer). It cost £350.

I have also changed the oil and filter as it was nearly 18k, I had the tools out and was doing half the service anyway.

On a separate note - is your 316 a panel van/dropside/box, is it manual and what kind of mpg do you get from it ?

Thanks again.

 

[Tidus]

Sprinters are a bugger for doing this! I've had starting problems before, misfires, the gearbox jumping out of gear! The fault for the dodgy start up on my 316CDi was the fuel pump, the outlet was blocked, mine has a motor powered pump, i fitted it myself, i've tuned the engine up, and since, problems disappeared. I got sick of constantly cranking her up, i damaged my starter motor cranking it for more than 30 seconds, i was late for a company meeting and got ****ed off!

Check all your fuel lines, pump, filters, spark plugs, throttle valve, and see if that cures it!

The 308CDi is a good Sprinter, i used to drive one until i got my 316CDi

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

Sprinters are a bugger for doing this! I've had starting problems before, misfires, the gearbox jumping out of gear! The fault for the dodgy start up on my 316CDi was the fuel pump, the outlet was blocked, mine has a motor powered pump, i fitted it myself, i've tuned the engine up, and since, problems disappeared.

Check all your fuel lines, pump, filters, spark plugs, throttle valve, and see if that cures it!

Tidus, are you sure you are thinking of the same engine here???? It's a diesel so if you can tell me where the throttle valve and spark plugs are I will be greatly enlightened.

Also On the 5 cyl CDi engines I have seen the primary fuel lift pump and high pressure fuel pump are all driven from the front of the engine (either from the timing chain or the cams, I'm not exactly sure how). Have you fitted an electric lift pump and if so how difficult was it to do?


Mister Cee, It appears that you are on the right track as you have vastly improved your starting already. If you do have to disturb the fuel filter again a hint on removing the centre connection is to note that the white horse-shoe type clip does not have to come out, simply push it or pull it (cant remember which) as far as it will go and this opens up the legs that hold it on. You will know exactly what I mean as you have just done it. The first time I did it I struggled like bu**ery with small screwdrivers to tease it off the filter. And also a recent experience has taught me that it pays to prefill the filter with fuel. I have never needed to on my van but a recent service on my dads 316 camper van resulted in a non-start until I did!

PS I have the small jubilee clip you need in the top of my tool box as they came in packs of 2!

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

Thanks for the response Steve,

On a separate note - is your 316 a panel van/dropside/box, is it manual and what kind of mpg do you get from it ?

Thanks again.

Having re-read your post take a look at the owners gallery pic's in the commercial section, my van is the first one there. As you will see it's a massive luton bodied chassis. Mpg averages at 21.5 but it can vary enormously depending on driving style from mid 15's to 25-26mpg and if I am insanely careful I can sneak into the low 30's but I can count the number of times I have managed that in the last 108k on 3 fingers. Mpg does not seem to be affected by load, only by speed and wind direction. The gearbox is the sprintshift automated box so is at least as economical as a manual and mercedes claim it betters an average-good driver with a manual box for efficiency.

The auto box is lovely to have but the problems it has suffered have put me right off and my next van will have to be a manual to remove any risks. When the sprintshift box didn't want to play it spat out it's dummy and took the ball home too.

 

[mister_cee333]

Hi again,

I've had a look at the pics Steve...nice piece of kit - noted the fogs and the blindspot mirrors (which on my panel van the passenger one is virtually a blindspot in itself). I've not got the fogs but have got twin zone remote locking, electric heated mirrors, electric windows and a factory CD player. To be honest I was looking for a 311 or 313 to begin with but the extras swayed me for my 308. Beefing up the power made a big difference... It now drives about the same as 311's, albeit a bit smokier under load and the diff gearing is different so high speed cruising is a bit noisy. I have checked out final drive ratios and I was planning to fit the 37:9 ratio from a 311 instead of my 34:7 one. I would need to do it at a weekend though, so I think that's what has held me back. I also fancied a sprintshift but had heard a few rumours of bad reliability but at the end of the day I would probably still have bought one had it been available. By all accounts I would have retained my 30+ mpg with it.

I sussed out the horse shoe style clip and managed to fit it intact. I have also encountered bleeding problems on my previous van (VW LT35 TDi) and therefore was wise to the fuel filter prefilling. I still have that small air bubble in the system but I will change the clip (and put a spare one on the top tool box LOL) as soon as I am near a supplier.

Thanks again for your info.


Tidus - Thanks for the info too, but it looks like my problem was a tad easier to remedy than yours. Going from a 308 to a 316 must have been a pleasant change.

Thanks again

 

[Tidus]

Sorry Steve, i didn't mean spark plugs, i actually meant the GLOW plugs! I'm too used to saying "spark" plugs!

Well, today, my co-manager's 311CDi has gone up the spout! She originally thought it was the engine overheating, it kept stalling. She's emailed me from work, and i've looked at my service guide. The F symbol keeps appearing in the multifunction display, which is the transmission malfunctioning, and on her van, is auto, like mine!

So now, i have a van out of service, with the famous Sprintshift trans, that's 2 vans of mine with dodgy transmissions!

I have an apology to make to you too: sorry for callin ya a bad driver the other day. Even if you were, at least you have sense, you drive a Sprinter instead of a crappy Tranny!

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

The auto box is lovely to have but the problems it has suffered have put me right off and my next van will have to be a manual to remove any risks. When the sprintshift box didn't want to play it spat out it's dummy and took the ball home too.

Tidus, as I have said, the sprintshift gearbox is a bit of a lemon. In theory it should be fantastic and if it is working right it is, but it is far to tetchy and seems to be tripped up very easily. After I had a gearbox replaced due to jumping out of 1st gear under load(a hydraulic selector fault, not the gearbox) I suffered a spate of F failures including holding the gears until stalling occurred and an occasional inability to select any gears. This happened around half a dozen times including leaving me stranded at the end of a motorway slip road in the rush hour for 15 minutes. Fortunately I could usually get things going again by stopping and starting the engine a few times and going from N to A a few times until it started co-operating again. I had given up when I got stuck on the motorway but decided to have one last try before calling Mercedes breakdown and luckily it went. Mercedes never found the fault but it hasn't happened since, perhaps it was a loose connector from the box swap.

As you are probably aware the sprintshift system has been dropped from the new range and I suspect our gearbox problems are not isolated incidents. It's a shame because if it could be made to work reliably it would be the best box on the market. The only improvement I could suggest would be the ability to move it into manual without changing gear.

 

[Tidus]

Totally agree with you there Steve, in fact, you couldn't be more right! I'm sick of my van jumping out of gear in auto mode when she's under heavy load, and when pulling a trailer! I had to tow Kassie (my wife) back from Luton once, her Subaru Impreza broke down, and i towed her back. Plus i had a load of scrap computer equipment in the back, Sprinty's a panel van. If i had a quid for every time Sprinty jumped outta gear on that occasion, i'd be a millionaire. The gearbox ended up knackered, i had it replaced, and it doesn't do it as much now. Even in semi-auto mode, it crunches a bit on upshift and downshift!

I'm surprised, as the gearbox on my bus, the Citaro, is auto, and has never jumped once, and that weighs nearly 30-40 ton!

If ya ever get a PCV license, test drive one of these babies! If ya think the purring of the 316CDi Sprinter engine is cool, these roar like there's a bear under the bonnet!

Is your rad cooling fan on your Sprinter a engine driven one, the ones that sound like a Dyson vac on heat, or a electric fan? My old 308CDi used to be an engine driven one, and the noise did my head in! Whatever speed the engine was doing, so was the fan! All you could hear when the window was open was "vvvvvrrrrooooossshhhh" which did it every gearshift! What monsters!

I'm surprised our neighbours didn't petition to get my van scrapped! I used to drive round the neighbourhood just revving her up every gearchange! I loved it!

Luckily my 316 is an electric constant speed fan, i'm sure i heard a massive neighbourhood wide sigh when i got rid of the 308!

I think you've gathered i'm a big engine fanatic!

 

[mister_cee333]

Hi,
In response to the above earlier problem...although it seemed cured unfortunately it came back to bite me on the bum. The problem has turned out to be a faulty injector. My local diesel fuel injection specialist has cured it today. Total cost for test, removal, overhaul and refitting of one injector was £200 inc vat.

Hope this helps anyone with similar problems.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

Not a bank breaking repair then! Hope it has been done right, keep an eye on it and read this other current thread http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=21159