Sprintshift Ratio's

[twodogron]

I currently drive a 2001 Sprinter 316 which was converted to a Motor Caravan from new. I only bought it last year......
Does anyone have any technical knowledge of the Sprintshift Gearbox ??
I ask because I find that the 1st gear ratio must have been designed to tow Centurian Tanks. (I know it's a Commercial Vehicle designed for loads but it's all revs and no go go, I could manage from 2nd upwards)
Is there anyway of eliminating the "selection" of 1st gear either in the Auto Sprintshift mode or the 1 thru 6 Sequential Manual shifts.
I am now retired but have been in Motor Engineering all my working life and owned a few other Mercs from time to time so I'm capable of pulling a gearbox if necessary.
Of all motor manufacturers I find Merc drivetrains the most difficult to source regarding technical repair/modification information...
Can anyone help or point me towards any Technical Data Sheets ???
Happy New Year to all....
Ron..

 

[Blobcat]

Hi & Welcome,

I think Sprint & Go has sprintshift on his sprinter. When sees this I'm sure he will be able to give you some advice.

 

[mister_cee333]

Hi,
It might be worth your while to have a look at the final drive ratio. There are variations depending on vehicle. eg the 316 panel van is fitted with a 4.11 ratio (shared with the 311 and 313), but the 316 chassis cab is fitted with a 4.37 ratio (shared again with 311 and 313). Therefore yours might be the slightly growlier one if your vehicle started life as a chassis cab and wasn't customised specification. There's a plate on the diff (probably covered with slightly stuck tape) on which you will find your type. Remember if you changed the diff the speedo would be knocked out of sync too tho.

 

[twodogron]

Hi,
This one was manufactured as a normal Panel Van and is known as a "van conversion" in Motor Home terminology..........
It defineately was'nt produced as a Chassis Cab......
I was just looking at ways to "eliminate" first gear, it's too low for me....
If it were any normal manual gearbox you would just select 2nd to pull away, unfortuneately you can't do that with a sequential box..........
Cheers,
Ron.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

I think Sprint & Go has sprintshift on his sprinter. When sees this I'm sure he will be able to give you some advice.

Hi Blobcat and congrats on the promotion. Who's palm did you grease to achieve this?

I do indeed have some info including the ratios.

Back to Ron's original questions the Sprinshift box is a six speed box versus the manuals 5 forward gears. 1st and top gears are very close but not identical.

Manual - 1st/5.05, 2.6, 1.53, 1.00, 5th/0.78

Sprintshift - 1st/5.01, 2.83, 1.78, 1.25, 1.00, 6th/0.79

As mentioned above the chassis cabs generally have a 4.375 final drive ratio(this changes for the 308CDi and petrol 314 variants), the chassis cabs are used for custom bodies like tippers or box vans. The Panel vans do have a 4.111 ratio as standard but for the 308/314's as above.

As I went for the bigger engine I decided to go for the 4.111 ratio as even though I run a large luton body I was confident the engine was torquey enough to cope. I have been more than happy with the gearing although I know what ron means when he says it is all rev and no go. When 'sprinting' from the lights with no load and on a level road the rev limiter arrives too suddenly in 1st and the change to second seems to take an age regardless of auto or manual selection. This has to be balanced against the occasional but real need to pull away on a hill with a full load (maybe with a small car in tow as seems to be popular with motorcaravaners, my parents included) when the 1st gear is much more practical. A note of caution here about the Twin mass flywheels used on these vans, they do appear to be very susceptable to problems and anything that increases the amount of clutch slipping when pulling away is certainly to be avoided. I have had problems with juddering at the biting point particularly when in crawling traffic when the gearbox remains in second gear of its own accord. The juddering has been quite progressively bad even after a full clutch/flywheel replacement under warranty.
There is no way to set off in second gear and if such a thing is possible as a modification it will be a software programming change and definitely not a mechanical alteration.
As for changing the final drive ratio they run from 3.45 in the 211/13/16, 4.111, 4.375, 4.85 in 308 van or 208 chassis, 5.28 in the 308 chassis and a ridiculously low 5.75 in the heavyweight 616 chassis. I have also come across another ratio which may suit your purposes but it is not publicised in the UK literature so I have no idea where you would find one. This ratio is 3.727 and is the ideal next step from your probable 4.111 ratio and would change your 1st gear from approx 6mph per 1000 rpm to a slightly better 6.6mph per 1000rpm. To confirm your final drive check on your VIN sticker on the drivers seat box, it should show i=4.111 unless a factory special was specified.

I hope the above info is of use to you Ron and you managed to stay awake through the above.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

A final point has just surfaced. Speedo appears to read from the ABS sensors so a ratio change won't cause any problems. I reckon the front sensors generate the speed signals as I recently raised the back end and tried to spin up the rear wheels but the gearbox remained in 1st gear and there was no movement of the speedo. The traction control also went beserk but that is a another topic altogether.

 

[twodogron]

Many thanks, firstly to blobcat and mister cee333 and finally to sprint n go for that very well informed and explained ratio information and your full understanding of my "gripe" with the Sprintshift gearing, it's just that I've had so many cars nearly running up my backside when pulling away from the lights, the van virtually takes off upto around 5 mph and then almost stops whilst engaging second gear, not to my liking at all. As you say, if I were hauling heavy loads, towing cars or constantly pulling away uphills then the LOW first might be useful but the 316 engine has so much grunt you don't really need all that low gearing in a Panel Van.
After your comments I think I'll just tolerate the system as I'm not prepared to make Extensive mods to either Software or Mechanics, it's just not that important.....
As a footnote, I prefer the "auto" system around low speed traffic as the manual sequential side seems to take for ever to go from 1st to 2nd in traffic.
Anyway, again many, many thanks for your help and advice.
Hope you all have a very Happy and Healthy New Year.
Ron.......

 

[supernelly]

Just found this old thread as I am having the same problem.

Would fitting larger wheels/tyres on the back have the same effect as changing the diff.

Its been sugested to me but I havent a clue

 

[alancee]

be very carefull here regarding changing diffs,i have done it to my cost,and nobody can really put their finger on it,i am talking car here not hgvs but logic might /could be the same ,i changed a knacked 3.67 to a 3.27 ,coupled to 722.6 box,all mechanicals are ok BUT there is something in something that knows what i have done and it puts the box into limp mode,full stop,second gear is what you have got ,how does it know,probably revs linked to something ,its no good disconnecting rear speed sensor either ,tried that,i have asked for the answer here in the past week but no one has it,most probably even a trained mb mech would not know,being its not in a training manual.the 3.67 diff is rare,rocking horse rare and serious dear,£475.00 used ,only one in uk ,dronsfields,so be aware there could be lurking problems if you embark down this route,we are not talking austin cambridge any more,still in the tihs by the way ,anyone got a diff and does not want my arm or leg,alancee

 

[ffc1971chris]

Hi Blobcat and congrats on the promotion. Who's palm did you grease to achieve this?

I do indeed have some info including the ratios.

Back to Ron's original questions the Sprinshift box is a six speed box versus the manuals 5 forward gears. 1st and top gears are very close but not identical.

Manual - 1st/5.05, 2.6, 1.53, 1.00, 5th/0.78

Sprintshift - 1st/5.01, 2.83, 1.78, 1.25, 1.00, 6th/0.79

As mentioned above the chassis cabs generally have a 4.375 final drive ratio(this changes for the 308CDi and petrol 314 variants), the chassis cabs are used for custom bodies like tippers or box vans. The Panel vans do have a 4.111 ratio as standard but for the 308/314's as above.

As I went for the bigger engine I decided to go for the 4.111 ratio as even though I run a large luton body I was confident the engine was torquey enough to cope. I have been more than happy with the gearing although I know what ron means when he says it is all rev and no go. When 'sprinting' from the lights with no load and on a level road the rev limiter arrives too suddenly in 1st and the change to second seems to take an age regardless of auto or manual selection. This has to be balanced against the occasional but real need to pull away on a hill with a full load (maybe with a small car in tow as seems to be popular with motorcaravaners, my parents included) when the 1st gear is much more practical. A note of caution here about the Twin mass flywheels used on these vans, they do appear to be very susceptable to problems and anything that increases the amount of clutch slipping when pulling away is certainly to be avoided. I have had problems with juddering at the biting point particularly when in crawling traffic when the gearbox remains in second gear of its own accord. The juddering has been quite progressively bad even after a full clutch/flywheel replacement under warranty.
There is no way to set off in second gear and if such a thing is possible as a modification it will be a software programming change and definitely not a mechanical alteration.
As for changing the final drive ratio they run from 3.45 in the 211/13/16, 4.111, 4.375, 4.85 in 308 van or 208 chassis, 5.28 in the 308 chassis and a ridiculously low 5.75 in the heavyweight 616 chassis. I have also come across another ratio which may suit your purposes but it is not publicised in the UK literature so I have no idea where you would find one. This ratio is 3.727 and is the ideal next step from your probable 4.111 ratio and would change your 1st gear from approx 6mph per 1000 rpm to a slightly better 6.6mph per 1000rpm. To confirm your final drive check on your VIN sticker on the drivers seat box, it should show i=4.111 unless a factory special was specified.

I hope the above info is of use to you Ron and you managed to stay awake through the above.

Hi Blobcat and congrats on the promotion. Who's palm did you grease to achieve this?

I do indeed have some info including the ratios.

Back to Ron's original questions the Sprinshift box is a six speed box versus the manuals 5 forward gears. 1st and top gears are very close but not identical.

Manual - 1st/5.05, 2.6, 1.53, 1.00, 5th/0.78

Sprintshift - 1st/5.01, 2.83, 1.78, 1.25, 1.00, 6th/0.79

As mentioned above the chassis cabs generally have a 4.375 final drive ratio(this changes for the 308CDi and petrol 314 variants), the chassis cabs are used for custom bodies like tippers or box vans. The Panel vans do have a 4.111 ratio as standard but for the 308/314's as above.

As I went for the bigger engine I decided to go for the 4.111 ratio as even though I run a large luton body I was confident the engine was torquey enough to cope. I have been more than happy with the gearing although I know what ron means when he says it is all rev and no go. When 'sprinting' from the lights with no load and on a level road the rev limiter arrives too suddenly in 1st and the change to second seems to take an age regardless of auto or manual selection. This has to be balanced against the occasional but real need to pull away on a hill with a full load (maybe with a small car in tow as seems to be popular with motorcaravaners, my parents included) when the 1st gear is much more practical. A note of caution here about the Twin mass flywheels used on these vans, they do appear to be very susceptable to problems and anything that increases the amount of clutch slipping when pulling away is certainly to be avoided. I have had problems with juddering at the biting point particularly when in crawling traffic when the gearbox remains in second gear of its own accord. The juddering has been quite progressively bad even after a full clutch/flywheel replacement under warranty.
There is no way to set off in second gear and if such a thing is possible as a modification it will be a software programming change and definitely not a mechanical alteration.
As for changing the final drive ratio they run from 3.45 in the 211/13/16, 4.111, 4.375, 4.85 in 308 van or 208 chassis, 5.28 in the 308 chassis and a ridiculously low 5.75 in the heavyweight 616 chassis. I have also come across another ratio which may suit your purposes but it is not publicised in the UK literature so I have no idea where you would find one. This ratio is 3.727 and is the ideal next step from your probable 4.111 ratio and would change your 1st gear from approx 6mph per 1000 rpm to a slightly better 6.6mph per 1000rpm. To confirm your final drive check on your VIN sticker on the drivers seat box, it should show i=4.111 unless a factory special was specified.

I hope the above info is of use to you Ron and you managed to stay awake through the above.

Hi Blobcat and congrats on the promotion. Who's palm did you grease to achieve this?

I do indeed have some info including the ratios.

Back to Ron's original questions the Sprinshift box is a six speed box versus the manuals 5 forward gears. 1st and top gears are very close but not identical.

Manual - 1st/5.05, 2.6, 1.53, 1.00, 5th/0.78

Sprintshift - 1st/5.01, 2.83, 1.78, 1.25, 1.00, 6th/0.79

As mentioned above the chassis cabs generally have a 4.375 final drive ratio(this changes for the 308CDi and petrol 314 variants), the chassis cabs are used for custom bodies like tippers or box vans. The Panel vans do have a 4.111 ratio as standard but for the 308/314's as above.

As I went for the bigger engine I decided to go for the 4.111 ratio as even though I run a large luton body I was confident the engine was torquey enough to cope. I have been more than happy with the gearing although I know what ron means when he says it is all rev and no go. When 'sprinting' from the lights with no load and on a level road the rev limiter arrives too suddenly in 1st and the change to second seems to take an age regardless of auto or manual selection. This has to be balanced against the occasional but real need to pull away on a hill with a full load (maybe with a small car in tow as seems to be popular with motorcaravaners, my parents included) when the 1st gear is much more practical. A note of caution here about the Twin mass flywheels used on these vans, they do appear to be very susceptable to problems and anything that increases the amount of clutch slipping when pulling away is certainly to be avoided. I have had problems with juddering at the biting point particularly when in crawling traffic when the gearbox remains in second gear of its own accord. The juddering has been quite progressively bad even after a full clutch/flywheel replacement under warranty.
There is no way to set off in second gear and if such a thing is possible as a modification it will be a software programming change and definitely not a mechanical alteration.
As for changing the final drive ratio they run from 3.45 in the 211/13/16, 4.111, 4.375, 4.85 in 308 van or 208 chassis, 5.28 in the 308 chassis and a ridiculously low 5.75 in the heavyweight 616 chassis. I have also come across another ratio which may suit your purposes but it is not publicised in the UK literature so I have no idea where you would find one. This ratio is 3.727 and is the ideal next step from your probable 4.111 ratio and would change your 1st gear from approx 6mph per 1000 rpm to a slightly better 6.6mph per 1000rpm. To confirm your final drive check on your VIN sticker on the drivers seat box, it should show i=4.111 unless a factory special was specified.

I hope the above info is of use to you Ron and you managed to stay awake through the above.

Hi your knowledge on these vans is amazing. I have the 616 with the as you discribed perfectly " ridiculous ratio" my question is can you advise me on a diff ratio. At 60 mph the engine rpm is 3200 I would love to bring the rpm down below 3000 ideally even lower. Power from the engine is not much of an issue with the present ratio as I can pull away in 3rd gear comfortably I would just like to cruise on the motorway with slightly lower revs to reduce the ridiculous engine noise. I am aware of the trade off lower revs can labour the engine requiring possible down shift for inclines and larger loads. But I'm happy with the trade off for a more refined drive.

My unit is a 2003 616 2.7cdi 5 speed manual. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards Chris

 

[Craiglxviii]

Holy thread resurrection Batman! 12.5 years, must be close to the record for this forum?!

 

[ffc1971chris]

Yes I guess so but it's the only thread I can find related to my issue.

 

[ffc1971chris]

Do you have any light to shine on my problem?

 

[ffc1971chris]

Was hoping sprint n go might help me as he is still on the forum. Do you think I need to make a new thread?

 

[LostKiwi]

Too calculate the ratio needed simply work it out as follows:
desired rpm/current rpm x current diff ratio

So... 3000/3200 x 5.15 = 4.828

 

[ffc1971chris]

Thanks that great help my main concern would be compatibly as my van has 2 wheels each side is the diff and is a 616 making it a 5 ton plus vehicle.

 

[ISHYK]

Hi your knowledge on these vans is amazing. I have the 616 with the as you discribed perfectly " ridiculous ratio" my question is can you advise me on a diff ratio. At 60 mph the engine rpm is 3200 I would love to bring the rpm down below 3000 ideally even lower. Power from the engine is not much of an issue with the present ratio as I can pull away in 3rd gear comfortably I would just like to cruise on the motorway with slightly lower revs to reduce the ridiculous engine noise. I am aware of the trade off lower revs can labour the engine requiring possible down shift for inclines and larger loads. But I'm happy with the trade off for a more refined drive.

My unit is a 2003 616 2.7cdi 5 speed manual. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards Chris

Thanks that great help my main concern would be compatibly as my van has 2 wheels each side is the diff and is a 616 making it a 5 ton plus vehicle.

I have the same problem I have a 2006 old shape 413 does exactly the same compare to my other Sprinter I urgently need help is it the diff or is it a gearbox

 

[ffc1971chris]

I have the same problem I have a 2006 old shape 413 does exactly the same compare to my other Sprinter I urgently need help is it the diff or is it a gearbox

It's the diff ratio. I have now found and purchased 2 crown wheels and pinions from Italy. Also I have found a firm to come to me to fit and set up the diff. The new ratio will bring my rpm down below 3000rpm at 60mph.happy days.

 

[ISHYK]

Thanks for the response I thought I was alone out there. I have a 311 CDI 2001 and 3000 revs it does over 80mph that is 3 1/2 ton single wheelbase.how much is the crown and pinion because my mate has a truck I can either put his diff in which is the same as mine 35/8 or he’s gearbox in for around 250 it must be his gearbox or have to take off the axle plate and count all the teeth‍‍

 

[ffc1971chris]

OK finally I have sorted the problem. After lots of digging I now know that the 616 sprinter only has 2 diff options. A 5:75 & 5:12 ratio. As I mentioned before my diff was a 5:75. This made my van incredibly fast but as a result it had high rpm on the motorway. At 60mph it was around 3500 rpm. So I sourced a new 5:12 crown wheel and pinion (wasn't cheap) from Italy then found a guy who rebuilds all the NHS ambulances axles. Which most are Mercedes to retro fit my new crown wheel and pinion. The whole job set me back £1300 but it was worth every penny. Its made such a difference. It now cruises along the motorway at 60mph with the rpm under 3000rpm. I am one happy camper.
AS a side note the crown wheel and pinion I purchased was delivered with a tiny bit of damage and I ended up in a dispute with the supplier. My fitter addressed the damage using a grinding stone cleaning up the small marks on the pinion from transit and every thing went together perfect. However the supplier refused to do anything about the damage but then strangely sent me a replacement anyway. I explained that I wanted the replacement but when they didn't offer to help I went ahead and had the first one fitted. I have since refused to return the second one telling them to arrange to collect. As a result they have said keep it and I now have a spare new crown wheel and pinion. Ironically the second one has very similar marks on it from transit.
Anyway anyone looking to do the modification to there 616 I have the hardware.
The crown wheel and pinion is £1400 from the main dealer so if you want to save a small fortune let me know.