Technical advice,where to start or stop

[television]

In my younger days life was great, in 1953 I took my first engine out to rebuild it, a simple side valve engine and life went on from there.. Since then I must have rebuilt over 100 engines, but those days are not with us any more, due to the long life that modern engines have, and their complexity in removing and working on. Having the abillity to have used almost all engineering tools from scraping bearings to a milling machine or surface grinder gave me that feeling for understanding different metals and what you can do with them to the point that I could be thinking about Xmas pudding or sex, when doing the work, its almost automatic.
What I am trying to say is that its OK for me to say "You just screw the timing chain tensioner in" Thats fine for me to say as my fingers know instantly if something is not right.

What do you do when you know nothing of the guy that you are advising. Maybe he cant even rawplug a shelf to the wall without it falling down.

My young brother,hates metal work, he brought his Transit round to me when the inlet manifold broke, I started him off on doing it, Half hour later he called out "Malcolm,they have all broken off" yes every stud snapped off.

I know that some garages are not much better, and do a lot of damage.

Where should advice stop and start, we had the car with wet eltronics yesterday, I wrote it all out,but he did not understand one thing that I wrote.

The last thing that I would want to do is to inspire confidence in the person doing the work, only to find that the engine blew up on completion.

Your thoughts please anyone.

Malcolm

 

[seabadger]

Malcolm,

You are a wise old dog and inspire total confidence in me. I can only say you have helped me enormously in the minor problems I have faced keeping my vehicle out of the MB workshops.

Keep up the good work!

Best Regards

Andy

 

[ceejay]

(New Boy so dont anyone rant........)

Some folks are compleatly without mechanical or practical ability. Not everyone understands basic instruction. And I'm sure that from the trawl through posts I have done that all advice has been greatfully received - even if the advicee is having no idea on the technicalities about the advice given.

Question is - how many other folks benefit from the answer to the question?

and at what price experience ?

truth is go to a dealer for any vehicle and many of the staff are foot troops and will do things because it is what the fault chart and manual says to do - not based on analisis and experience. And the chances are that the customer goes away with the same problems - just a v.much lighter wallet!! Oh, and frustration.

It could not be the fault of the advisor if the correct method is implemented by a mechanical numpty.

Ever.

Especially at a distance.

So dont stop - cos I got a feeling I am gonna need that advice !!! And inspiration. And experience.

cj

 

[nick45]

Totally agree CJ. Forums like this are invaluable to the likes of me. I'm not particularly mechanically competent but even if I can't undertake some work, I like to try and understand the nature of the problem etc.

If you ask for advice, and you get it, you have to decide whether to implement it or not. That weight of responsibility is not with the advisor. That goes for life in general too.

 

[Ultymate]

I know exactly where Malcolm's coming from, if you've worked with vehicles for many years you develop well honed diagnostic skills over the years the problem is these skills are not so easy to put into use at the keyboard of a P/C. When diagnosing faults in the real world all of your senses come into play you can feel a mifire you can smell a burning brake or clutch likewise you can smell damage in an auto trans on the oil, you can hear engine noises and indeed all sorts of other noises, none of this sensory perception is feasable on a computer so sometimes seemingly stupid questions have to be asked to illicit information. I've said all this without mentioning the use of diagnostic equipment which with todays cars for certain faults is indespensable.
In conclusion I would say to the non-experienced owners who pose their questions on the forum be patient expect the odd seemingly stupid question to arise and those technical amongst us will work towards a diagnosis for you, bearing in mind that some problems will not find a resolution via this medium ie sophisticated diagnostic equipment will be needed

 

[thespirit3]

I think you have two types of people. Those with the ability to learn, and those without. You don't necessarily have to understand something, to learn from it. If I post a question, and I get a reply I don't understand, I'll thank the poster, and use this as a spring-board onto other things. Terms I don't recognise I'll google, if the post mentions items x y and z, I'll go away and do some reading on x y and z. The reply which at first I didn't understand, will suddenly start to make sense. I may go back and ask further questions based on my new understanding - and more often than not, I'll eventually figure stuff out myself.

However, I often see the "I don't understand" *end of thought process* technique. This seems more and more common nowadays.

*insert 'everyone wanting everything handed to them on a plate' rant*

 

[type49]

Some people have a natural ability to explain things or use photos to do so ( like "Parrot-of-doom") I am NOT one of these. I sit there for a while, typing, re-correcting myself & going over it again, to see if I can simplify it any better before posting, only to find somebody else (usually Malc) has already answered it before me & theirs is much easier to understand. Oh well, at least we all try.

 

[jberks]

It can be tricky and at the end of the day you have to hope that the person will have enough sense to not exceed their abilities.

After all, many of us have attempted something, got part way through and decided that perhaps we shouldn't go any further.

You can sometimes judge their ability from the language they are using. If they attempt to use technical terms, but get them wrong for example - it can indicate someone whose confidence exceeds their ability. I got a call a few days ago from a cousin who was trying to replace his battery and needed to borrow a "sprocket set". I suggested he brought it round instead!

Other times, it's worth asking a few awquard questions to gauge their ability or ask politely what their tecnhical ability is. Once they've realised what a friendly bunch we are, they'll generally own up!

At the end of the day, we can empart information. It's not our responsibility if someone misuses it.
Actually, thinking about the world we live in, perhaps we should end all postings with a legal disclaimer......

 

[shj]

The difference today and Malcom's time (I'm not far behind him) is that there is not a lot of mechanical ability about, in modern car dealerships,they don't mend/repair anything anymore,they just replace the offending componant,because thats what their laptop says they must do.
They are called technicians these days because they are in the main definately not mechanics/mechanical

 

[BarryG]

Malcolm to me, this forum and the answers given, is invaluable. (More for budgetary reasons than wanting to do it myself.)
I would and will attempt anything that is within my physical capabilities.
But! As you have said modern cars having so many electrical components and computerised gubbins. ( See I am now using technical terms ) The layman like myself would have no idea where to even start looking.
Being pointed in the direction of which one of these components needs changing by yourself or others is most helpful. If in the long run this does not cure the problem, it would not be your or anyone elses fault that it didn't work. I, and I think others asking for help here realise that any advice offered is just that advice.
I have read threads on here that have had similarities to problems I have had on previous cars, simple easy fixes, that would have saved me a fortune in repair bills.
I am here to pick all of you smart guys brains ( For free ) anything I do with that information is my problem.

Keep the fire burning my friend.

 

[BarryG]

Oh and the advice can be helpful to members taking there cars into the stealers. Being pre-armed with information, can stop the, "It needs, the Hyperbolic Interloper replacing, cost price to you £1500" when in fact it is just a £12 relay or even a fuse

 

[kid-jensen]

TV,
Nobody is born with the ability to fix cars, we have to learn, and the best way to learn is to have a go.
Now that electronics are the primary method of sending a car to the scrapyard, it's more difficult to be a DIY mechanic, but it's not impossible with a little help form other people's experience. Hence the reason this forum is so valuable.
You could give someone a bit of mechanical advice, they have an go and break something....fine, they're learning, and are unlikely to do it (too many times ) again. This senario could go on 3 or 4 times before they've spent as much as handing it to a stealer with an open cheque book, so they're still ahead of the game. They'll also know what to do if the problem happens again......

Keep on keeping on......

 

[Hibbo]

Oh and the advice can be helpful to members taking there cars into the stealers. Being pre-armed with information, can stop the, "It needs, the Hyperbolic Interloper replacing, cost price to you £1500" when in fact it is just a £12 relay or even a fuse

What a rip-off! You can get OEM Hyperbolic Interlopers for about £800 from a good factor! ****** stealers!

 

[television]

Thanks everyone for the answers, so its business as normal.


Malcolm

 

[BarryG]

Thanks everyone for the answers, so its business as normal.


Malcolm

 

[declang]

I've gleaned quite a bit of knowledge from reading "stuff on the net".

The specific manufacturer forums like this one are simply fantastic for people like myself who have a general understanding of a lot of car "bits", but am lost on others.
Not MB related, yet, but I've had no problems doing routine service stuff, like plugs, points, (yes, i do still have a car with points !) oils, (engine, gear, diff) filters, fuel mixture adjustment, fault finding on electrics, etc etc

But, I had a problem with the idle on a mk2 golf, so I asked for help on a vw forum, and got lots of answers, pointing me to clean the ISV. It worked. I'd never have tracked that down on my own.

Similarly, on an old honda CR-V I had, I was changing the differential oil and found a strange looking assembly mounted beside the diff. Had no idea what it was for, so posted a question on the hondasuv forum with a picture of it, and again got the answer I needed. (That thread went away off on a tangent about how rusty my suspension looked, and salty roads, etc etc, but I still got the info I needed.)

I needed a new clutch on my latest car, (mk1 golf gti) but since that was beyond my abilities, I took that to a local mechanic (with a good reputation) and paid to get it done.

I know my limits, and its very reassuring to know that if I do stray beyond my capabilities, (f*** up), I know there is somewhere I can admit to what I've done, and seek assistance, and chnace are I'll get the right advice.

 

[and11]

I'm very much a novice to car mechanics but i've had some super advice on here, especially as i will have a go at almost anything but i have learned the hard way in past and know my limitations. It's pretty much common sense really though, i get as much info as poss on here, i got haynes manual(which makes this tensioner job sound like putting a nut in to correct torque) and when i come to doing the job, anything im unsure about and it's garage here i come. But i even got a phone number to call a guy whan i come to doin the job which was down to seeking advice of members. I will post all results and i also think the digital cam is great for recording tasks too, regards Andy.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

I've learnt tonnes of stuff on there. A few years ago I couldn't even do an oil change. Then I bought a TVR, and began to take an interest in how it was nailed together.

Now I can perform most basic maintainance, and I have a good idea of how my car works, how the engine performs, common problems, what to check if it breaks down. Its very satisfying to know all this, especially considering the massive amounts of money I save by doing it myself and not paying someone.

I reckon if anybody comes on here and asks for advice which is duly given, if they then go and make a mess (for instance, changing the oil by pouring it into the coolant), its their own fault and nobody else's.

All the advice I've seen on here is very easy for the layman to understand.

 

[AlisonH]

The other consideration is that, even if the person originally asking for advice cannot themselves follow or act effectively on that, it does not mean that someone else searching the threads for the same advice won't be able to follow it. The reality is that, once posted, any number of people can benefit over a period, and your years of knowledge and experience are a greatly valued asset when passed on, but benefit nobody unless shared.

Personally speaking, I may not be in a position to lift a spanner or access a fault's area, but if I understand something of the nature of the fault or possibilities, then I can have some idea of what possibilities need exploring by those who can. (And what not!)

Yesterday I noticed an intermittent squeaky noise - sounded a bit like one of those little pipes I recall having as a child and that one filled with water, then blew into. The sound was like a bird song. Had it once before on another old car and years ago. That turned out to be the water pump going. Popped into the local garage and had the chap listening under the bonnet. He failed to hear it at all, but with the hood up I caught a couple of very brief moments of it - but NOT from the vicinity of the engine! Guess a case of waiting to see if anything developes further. Guess it could just be a case of some WD40 applied somewhere, but I bet someone like yourself, and with your years of experience and ears tuned to sound, could finger it straight away if you had heard it. Experience such as yours is surely priceless here?

 

[television]

Yes Alison H, I started the thread to see if it was wise to put out info beyond the capability of the person doing it. None of us would ever stop posting (I hope)
We Had a thread that showed that much damage could be done, even by a garage unless a good understanding of the engine involved and the correct working data was to hand

The answers that have come back have been supurb, and put it all into the correct context.

Malcolm