That Jeremy Vine cycling incident

[PovertySpec]

You really ought to learn how to construct a reply which can be replied to.

And you do seem to be arguing for arguments sake whilst leaving the reader baffled as to what your point is.

Vacillating, to put it mildly

In Holland the car/lorry/van driver is always in the wrong in a collision with a cyclist because 2+ ton vehicle vs. a 'person on a bit of ali tubing'

You really do have to be out for an argument for arguments sake if you can't see the obviousness of that.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Sorry, in a bit of a rush for time. I prefer to think of it as debating, not arguing.

My point is simple. People need to take more care on the roads, and cyclists have an unrealistic expectation of courtesy from other road users given a) human impatience and b) their own frailty in comparison to cars, trucks and lorries.

e.g. all road users need to manage their own expectations given what is actually using the roads.

 

[EmilysDad]

.....
Oh and if you think I'm some sort of crack jock vigilante on two wheels I'm a professional driver who earns my living on the road, I hold a Class 1 C+E License, CPC Certificate, Hazchem trained, IAM Certificate, Defensive Driving trained, I've driven more miles in a year than most of you will drive in 10 years
....

I always wonder why people state the above ...... does it have any bearing on cycling in the middle of the road ..... maybe there should be a test for common sense
I've been stuck behind many a 'professional driver' who decides to overtake up a hill & then 5 miles later decides he can't make it & eventually pulls over

 

[M80]

Reading this thread, and nowadays I am selective of the threads I follow as there are other things demanding my time, I see more argument to support my view that all motorists should be caused to be re tested on a regular basis. 5 years would be my preference.

Also though, with the congestion and ever increasing risks of using our roads I believe cyclists should require a proven competence to use them. Their paying for the use I don't care for but insurance wouldn't be silly.

I remember back in the 60's when there where cycling proficiency lessons, out of school hours but in school playgrounds. An exam to attain a badge was available at the end. There was no legal requirement but kids were taught how to stay safe on the road. Parents would then happily allow their kids to peddle off to distant locations alone or with their mates.
Up until discovering motor bikes in 77 I used to cycle 50 - 60 -70 miles in a day on the racer I bought with my paper round money. My furthest was Manchester to Snowdonia, and back a couple of days later.
I could cycle for an hour + and not see a car, or other cyclists either if that matters. Wagons were a rarity.

If a parent were to allow their kid to cycle on our roads nowadays I would consider them to be negligent. They have the right but if you love your kid surely you wouldn't want the stress of wondering what might happen to them out there.
Then there are the older versions. Well prepared, although helmets aren't so common from what I see. Lot's of dosh has been spent on the kit, they look cool. After passing cyclists on the rural roads with blind bends and hills who are possibly chatting, however many abreast, I see the risk to them. I know motorists should slow to be able to avoid a collision but will they? I've been caught out by cyclists that veer into my path, to overtake another, and maybe to avoid a pothole. They expect me to give them a cars width, or even more. I have allowed enough for the cyclist to cycle comfortably but somehow I should also read their mind, or I should see the menacing pothole in front of them at my 50mph. Where as I believe for self preservation some one so vulnerable should care for their own well being.
I am fully aware that I would be held to account, even if totally right. A cyclist might perform a suicidal manoeuvre and suffer the consequences of contact with a larger, faster motor vehicle. In that event the sympathy will invariably be with the injured cyclist. The motorist now having to defend.
Even if / when the motorist has successfully demonstrated innocence a 'brave' cyclist, or his family would successfully claim from the only insurance in place.

It would be lovely if we could all share our roads easily and safely, those days are gone.

 

[PovertySpec]

all road users need to manage their own expectations given what is actually using the roads.

Experienced, considerate, road users will also have learned to accommodate the needs, rights and expectations of other road users, especially with regards to the other road users' vulnerabilities.

Remember: When you're on a bike you're a 'cyclist', when you're on foot you're a 'pedestrian' and when you're in your car you're a 'motorist'

But one thing you should never be is a 'beep beep Mr Toad' stereotype

 

[steve_k243]

In Holland the car/lorry/van driver is always in the wrong in a collision with a cyclist because 2+ ton vehicle vs. a 'person on a bit of ali tubing'

You really do have to be out for an argument for arguments sake if you can't see the obviousness of that.

It is however, easy to see why the Netherlands has this approach. Their cycling culture and infrastructure is way more developed than ours. Bikes are an accepted norm there, where we still have many with the attitude that they shouldn't be on the roads at all.

 

[PovertySpec]

It is however, easy to see why the Netherlands has this approach. Their cycling culture and infrastructure is way more developed than ours. Bikes are an accepted norm there, where we still have many with the attitude that they shouldn't be on the roads at all.

Let's face it, the Dutch are way more developed than we are in many ways.

 

[daveenty]

An alternative (though not necessarily recommended) use of a "CYCLE LANE"

 

[steve_k243]

An alternative (though not necessarily recommended) use of a "CYCLE LANE"

Has anyone phoned the moron farm to inform them of an escapee?

 

[Gkinghorn]

Well just to prove since of this today I went out on my morning run this morning...

Puncture in a cycle lane

Cycle lane blocked by van driver even though plenty of parking spots on the other side of the road

I come round a bend.. Out of the cycle lane because it's full of pine needles and I risk coming cropper. 75 yards down the road white van man just pulls right across the entire Road forcing me to a stop. He then reverses back almost into me... The air was blue..absolute dick who was totally unawsre I was there and didn't even apologise...

And I said it before but if you don't cycle you have no idea how stupid some of what you are saying here is in reality...

Go cycle then have an opinion...




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[television]

And here is me thinking about an electric bicycle to do my food shopping when I move, I think I will use the electric wheel chair instead, that goes 9mph now I have modified it.

 

[Blobcat]

I was driving in Holland on Tuesday last week, the cyclists weren't even looking behind when pulling out to pass parked cars as they expect the cars following to give them space.

They're relying on the drivers behind to not hit them when they pull out into traffic. They might have the law at least 50% on they're side although I'm not sure how much of a comfort that would be when they're in hospital or the cemetery.

There's a hell of a lot of "right" people in the cemetery...

On a different note I was driving south on the M5 22:45 on Sunday evening in the roadworks by J4. I was overtaking a SEAT in Lane 1 when I noticed his smartphone on his dashboard in front of his speedometer playing a tv show / movie which he was watching.

He wasn't speeding so the average cameras have no interest in his unbelievably dangerous driving....

 

[M80]

Go cycle then have an opinion...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A subtle "on yer bike" maybe.
Although your experience enforces my view that it's too dangerous for me to want to.

 

[Gkinghorn]

you can cycle safely - just have your wits about you and assume everyone ina vehicle larger than you hasnt seen you but is still out to get you ... expect the worst..you're never disapointed

 

[M80]

Aye, whilst motor cycling I assume they're out to get me.
Turns out I'm not paranoid.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Amazing how many cyclists don't really care about their own safety, they ride about without any lights whatsoever, and wear dark or neutral clothing...
I do believe that flashing front and rear lights should be mandatory.

 

[Larkone]

Whilst I have sympathy for cyclists and the generally un-thinking attitude they suffer from car drivers they also do not help themselves. I live near Cambridge and whenever I go into town I am amazed at the effort the council has put into providing cycle lanes to protect cyclists and then they ride in the narrower road (narrower because of the cycle lanes) and ignore the cycle lanes -DOH

Or yesterday I was presented with a group of cyclists riding on the wrong side of the road towards me ignoring the cycle lanes - Darwinism needs to apply with some of them.

And don't get me started on the motorcyclists on right hand bends, wheels tight on the white line and leaning over into my side of the road as I come round the bend. In a contest between their head and my car I know the car will win - they obviously don't.

 

[steve_k243]

Amazing how many cyclists don't really care about their own safety, they ride about without any lights whatsoever, and wear dark or neutral clothing...
I do believe that flashing front and rear lights should be mandatory.

I counted 6 unlit cyclists recently during a 10 minute drive from work to the hotel.
The question is, how many didn't I see!

 

[M80]

Last evening, light fading, I've driven up a steep hill from the Goyt. 2 cars can pass just. At the top is a sharpish left hand bend so I slow to 25 from 50 knowing it's a place where I often meet cars head on who cut the bend due to lazy inconsideration. this time 2 middle aged cyclists, no lights and in the middle, tired after their steep climb. Possibly they were hoping for a lift on my bonnet as after levelling it gets steep again.

It's not just cyclists.
Come w/e when on the rare occasion the sun comes out up here the droves arrive from the cities. For some reason, although they are parked on these roads they then believe they are public footpaths. Kids and dogs running freely not expecting cars to actually come along these ROADS. Often adults will wave me to slow as if there is no right to actually use these roads to go to the places they were built for.

And it's always some one else who can repair gates and fences and clear the cans that are thrown when finished with.

 

[Myros]

oooh, lots of stuff going on here

Whenever I can, I always hang well back from a cyclist, and will use the AWD ( horn) between 100 and 50m behind while approaching on an open road. I know what it's like to be head down and panting so much that all you can hear is your heart and lungs working flat out. So if they aren't hearing-impaired, there's a good chance they know I'm approaching.
I give them their wobble room. A cyclist sitting nearly 2m high on his bike, will lie approx. 2m wide in the road if he falls over.
I won't cycle on the roads anywhere now and won't let my kids on the roads either. That's because of the number of complete and utter fudgewits out there, and not because they can't ride safely. It's risky enough around here driving a big car. no way would I mix it on two wheels with the local idiocracy.

If you rely on the other chap to provide your safety, you will eventually lose.