The old question: Summer vs All Season vs Winter tyres. What's your thinking?

[Bodhi]

Before my Mercedes I had a top of the line Accord. Tyres were 215/45R 17 all around. I had fitted the CrossClimate+ and on winters I was happy to see other cars left behind when they couldn't climb a very easy hill to arrive home. Granted, snowy days are not THAT common. But what does happens a lot in the UK are icy roads, specially when most of the time you drive b roads in the countryside.

This is the reason I chose the Crossclimate+ instead of a better performance summer tyre for my Type R. And sure, I could have brake better in an emergency, or be faster in a trackday, but for everyday driving I couldn't find a difference that was relevant to me. After all, I like fast cars, but in my case they have to double as family cars.

My problem now is that I have 225/45/17 at the front and 245/40/17 at the back and there is no Crossclimate+ (or any other all weather tyre for that matter) in 245/40/17. So I will have to compromise. Either installing 235/45/17 or 245/45/17 at the back. None of these solutions is specially appealing to me, as the speedometer will be slightly off, and I'm not sure about clearance if I get 5 people in the car as the sidewalls will be taller with both tyres. With the 235 is closer to the standard, but I'm loosing traction. With the 245 I get the full traction but its even taller.

Anyway... that is my current conundrum...

I'm still interested to see what you all think about fitting specific tyres for the winter. Now, before you suggest it, no I do not have anywhere to put the winter tyres away during the summer, otherwise I would choose the best possible summer tyre and a regular winter tyre and swap them accordingly!

 

[Bodhi]

This is the average weather around where I live: https://www.holiday-weather.com/sheffield/averages/#chart-head-precipitation

And it has been proved without doubt that below 7 degree a summer tyre is loosing traction in wet/icy surfaces, making them potentially dangerous. So, at least 5 months a year and where I live, an all weather tyre is better than a summer tyre (as far as I can see).

 

[onefortheroad]

Fit 225 45 17 all round.

 

[Craiglxviii]

This is the average weather around where I live: https://www.holiday-weather.com/sheffield/averages/#chart-head-precipitation

And it has been proved without doubt that below 7 degree a summer tyre is loosing traction in wet/icy surfaces, making them potentially dangerous. So, at least 5 months a year and where I live, an all weather tyre is better than a summer tyre (as far as I can see).

When/ where was it “proved beyond a doubt”...?

It’s the tyre temperature, not the ground or air temperature that is one of the determining factors, and that changes dependent on driving speed & duration.

 

[Bodhi]

Fit 225 45 17 all round.

I have been thinking about that one too. But the rear rims are wider... So... Unsure...

 

[Bodhi]

When/ where was it “proved beyond a doubt”...?

It’s the tyre temperature, not the ground or air temperature that is one of the determining factors, and that changes dependent on driving speed & duration.

Have you seen the objective tests in the video? It's about environment temperature. Sure, tyre temperature is a variable, but as I said, I believe it's different when your commute is using a well maintained motorway or a road than having to deal with smaller b roads that are barely used and they get very icy.

Oh and don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that I know better than you. In fact, I am interested in knowing where your figures come from? Are there any studies about tyre temperature in the winter? tests about how much you have to drive and what speed in order for the tyre to be safe?

 

[onefortheroad]

I have been thinking about that one too. But the rear rims are wider... So... Unsure...

Its very doable. Even with wider rims .

 

[Craiglxviii]

Have you seen the objective tests in the video? It's about environment temperature. Sure, tyre temperature is a variable, but as I said, I believe it's different when your commute is using a well maintained motorway or a road than having to deal with smaller b roads that are barely used and they get very icy.

Oh and don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that I know better than you. In fact, I am interested in knowing where your figures come from? Are there any studies about tyre temperature in the winter? tests about how much you have to drive and what speed in order for the tyre to be safe?

Yes I have. I’ve also conducted those tests. Moreover I worked for 5 years with the world’s 4th largest car maker actually studying exactly how stuff like this works, and tyre choice was always a prime subject due to the high customer visibility. So, not only have I been involved in ride & handling tests, I’ve worked with the design engineering and validation teams in looking at the results and then say with the engineering and marketability management teams making judgement on whether or not they’re ok to proceed. The engineering data is crystal clear, the key factor (NB NOT the only factor) defining grip is the temperature of the tyre material matrix. Air temperature is therefore contributory to that, but doesn’t define it.

There is a difference in commute vs B roads. Yes, definitely. But, how much of one’s journey is spent on frozen ungritted roads for how many contiguous days of the year?

Also, again to point out. Summer tyres are becoming increasingly more winterised as materials science improves. The others, not so much with I believe one exception.

 

[Bodhi]

Thanks for the detailed answer. I would be interested in knowing which summer uhp tyres would be better in cold/damp potentially icy surfaces. Also interested in knowing the best way to get the tyre to a safer temperature before venturing in to icy roads (loads of black ice on them at some days).

Yes I have. I’ve also conducted those tests. Moreover I worked for 5 years with the world’s 4th largest car maker actually studying exactly how stuff like this works, and tyre choice was always a prime subject due to the high customer visibility. So, not only have I been involved in ride & handling tests, I’ve worked with the design engineering and validation teams in looking at the results and then say with the engineering and marketability management teams making judgement on whether or not they’re ok to proceed. The engineering data is crystal clear, the key factor (NB NOT the only factor) defining grip is the temperature of the tyre material matrix. Air temperature is therefore contributory to that, but doesn’t define it.

There is a difference in commute vs B roads. Yes, definitely. But, how much of one’s journey is spent on frozen ungritted roads for how many contiguous days of the year?

Also, again to point out. Summer tyres are becoming increasingly more winterised as materials science improves. The others, not so much with I believe one exception.

 

[keefysher]

Confused of Hampshire here

Have you considered you are comparing apples with stairs between the two cars you mention. One is a fwd manual, the other is a rwd auto. The manual had 60mm less width of tread on the drive axle than the auto.

A couple of bags of sand in the boot and narrower tyres will sort you out as will driving to the conditions.

The range of sizes you quote give an outside diameter range of 24.5 mm

Not sure any tyres will save you hitting black ice at an inappropriate speed.

 

[AnthonyUK]

I have been thinking about that one too. But the rear rims are wider... So... Unsure...

I do that currently on 8.5j rears and they fit fine. It is rumored that the 245/40 r17 CC+ will be available this year in UK

 

[Craiglxviii]

Thanks for the detailed answer. I would be interested in knowing which summer uhp tyres would be better in cold/damp potentially icy surfaces. Also interested in knowing the best way to get the tyre to a safer temperature before venturing in to icy roads (loads of black ice on them at some days).

Look for tyres with a high silica content. The Uniroyal Rainsport 3 I use have been excellent winter performers for this reason.

 

[LostKiwi]

Look for tyres with a high silica content. The Uniroyal Rainsport 3 I use have been excellent winter performers for this reason.

Ditto. We live at the bottom of a small hill and from a standing start it coped with a snowy road with no problems at all.
Rainsport 3s seem to be very good in my experience.
Very little of my driving is in temperature where the there is any significant benefit to winters and given we often drive in 30+ temperature in summer I can see no point in switching to any other tyre.

 

[Bodhi]

Look for tyres with a high silica content. The Uniroyal Rainsport 3 I use have been excellent winter performers for this reason.

How can I see which ones do have it? I like the F1 Supersport, decent price, decent performance.

 

[Bodhi]

Or what about the Continental Sport Contact 6

 

[robin.large]

Enough! Studded tyres are better by far

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

[Bodhi]

Enough! Studded tyres are better by far

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

[Wighty]

Just fit winters and run them all year , they are cheaper that fancy cross climates .

 

[Bodhi]

Just fit winters and run them all year , they are cheaper that fancy cross climates .

Well yes. But the compromise is too much. Have you seen the video I posted with detailed results? A winter tyre can be even dangerous in the summer.

 

[Bodhi]

I do that currently on 8.5j rears and they fit fine. It is rumored that the 245/40 r17 CC+ will be available this year in UK

Im afraid.. the rumour is unfounded I asked Michelin directly, this is their answer:

"Thank you for contacting Michelin Customer Care.

Regarding your query, I regret to inform you that the MICHELIN CrossClimate is not available in 245/40 R17 , at the moment and we do not have any plans to launch this tyre in this tyre size in the immediate future.

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you have any further questions, we will be more than happy to help.

Kind Regards,

Elli
MICHELIN Customer Care"