Tire clearance puzzle

[mditka85]

Greetings Gents,

If the board can assist with this one, it would be a great help. I have a 2000 E430 base model with very unusual tire wear that makes me suspect something is interfering with the inside edge of the front tires. While checking for interference with the tire I noticed that there is very little space between the upper control arm bolt/nut and the inside edge of the tire...about a finger tip gap, 10mm (see picture). The clearance is quite minimal.

I checked the same gap on an E430 4matic and the gap was about 30 - 35 mm.

I'm tring to figure out if my configuration is correct. The two components that determine the gap are the steering knuckle and upper control arm. Therefore, can anyone tell me if the 2000 E430 base vs. 4matic models share the same steering knuckle and upper control arm part numbers or do they differ? Is there an explanation for the difference in clearances?

Much appreciated, Matt

 

[Axcontrols]

I'm not sure what the gap should be but I have seen cases where people have fitted the wrong alloy wheels making parts of the wheel/tire foul on bodywork suspension etc.

 

[Bolide]

Before you look at suspension parts are the wheel offsets and tyre widths the same?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[television]

Why is the tyre wear unusual any picture of them, and welcome to the forum

 

[teabag]

Before you look at suspension parts are the wheel offsets and tyre widths the same?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

As above, as it would be much easier to fit the wrong wheels rather than the steering knuckles or control arms.

If both tyres are showing signs of interference, I would definately have the offset of the wheels checked.

 

[television]

The chart for the 210 with the correct offsets is here

 

[Alex Crow]

hello matt
if you asked the question another way round it may get you better results - eg "i have tyre wear like this (insert picture of tyre wear), can anyone suggest why? also, what should the clearence be" etc etc. the tyres do get very close to those nuts but obviously cannot hit them if there is 10mm clearence. as others have said the wheel and tyre sizes may be incorrect.

please note though, if you simply have excessive wear on the inside of both tyres it suggests a tracking issue, notably too little toe-in. hth.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

It's a typical camber problem..... nothing is rubbing i can assure you of that.

Over time the suspension degrades and with a little road trauma the vertical position of the wheel moves, it's for this reason the angle in question on the merc is adjustable, you simply need to have the geometry reset.

 

[television]

It's a typical camber problem..... nothing is rubbing i can assure you of that.

Over time the suspension degrades and with a little road trauma the vertical position of the wheel moves, it's for this reason the angle in question on the merc is adjustable, you simply need to have the geometry reset.

And I believe in that 100% we all know that swivels etc all wear and get changed,,and the same goes for other components that cannot be checked in the same way

 

[mditka85]

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback, here's a little more info.

Stock 17" wheels with stock 235/45/17 tires. New springs and shocks and alignment.

A don't really think the bolt is interfering with the wheel but it still bothers me that the clearance is so minimal....it's just not right. Anyone know if the E430 base and 4matic share the same steering knuckle and upper control arm?

Thanks again, Matt

 

[mditka85]

Attached is a pic of the tire wear that started all this.

Matt

 

[geezer255]

ooops......

 

[television]

It is well past its sell by date and illegal , I cannot work out the edge patten

 

[Axcontrols]

I'm still leaning towards wrong wheels.

He said 'stock' 17" wheels with low profile tyres (45) - would that be 'stock' (original factory fit) ?

Did we get a picture of the wheels yet ? What are they - brand/style etc ?

 

[television]

They are the right size for that car the off set should be 37 for that car and wheel set up

 

[brandwooddixon]

I'd plump for rim size being correct, but offset being wrong.

It may be that they are "stock" wheels but for a different model MB. My reasoning being that I don't think that 17" rims were a stock items for W210s they were only available as an extra.

 

[Axcontrols]

Guys,


A don't really think the bolt is interfering with the wheel but it still bothers me that the clearance is so minimal.

That bolt might not be interfering - although when leaning hard into a corner there may be some contact - but also pull the steering right over to one side till it won't go no more and see if it's touching

 

[Axcontrols]

Years ago when I was a boy racer (I'm all right now) and had fitted some 'unknown-origin-and too-wide' wheels to a car I didn't have any means, or even know how, to measure the offset so I jacked up a wheel and placed a load of small gravel under the wheel and dropped the tyre back down onto the gravel - then sat for 5 minutes turning the steering left and right grinding away at the gravel - jacked the wheel back up and the gravel makes lots of tiny scratches in the rubber in a kind of circular shape. Looking to see that the centre of the scratchy circle is dead centre in the tyre.

If the ofset was wrong I expected the circle to be more of an arc or off centre - or something like that.

As I said, I was young so didn't really know what I was doing but back then it kind of made sense.

 

[LSD]

That appears like an extreme case of very incorrect offset coupled with too much negative camber, if all else is well.

I have seen contact damage do that also, but you'd see little millings of rubber debris visible on that bolt, and in the wheel arch and suspension area too.

The 10mm gap mentioned in the original post (if that's the only item near to the tyre) should not be a problem. Tyre deformity under hard stress of cornering occurs almost totally near the point of contact (road), and the tyre has reshaped enough when rotated near to the top to not be 10mm out of position.

If the wheel/tyre assembly is flexing or moving enough to cause 10mm of lean there, and hence making contact, then there's a suspension problem, and it will be the inside tyre on any particular corner being contacted. Also, I'll assume you don't have wildly mismatched new front dampers and springs, since that can do that to tyres, more so if running too high pressures.

 

[bigasotonuk]

I'd plump for rim size being correct, but offset being wrong.

It may be that they are "stock" wheels but for a different model MB. My reasoning being that I don't think that 17" rims were a stock items for W210s they were only available as an extra.

I7" and also 18" rims (E55 AMG) were fitted as standard equipment to the 210 E-class.