To diesel or not to diesel? - that is the question

[brandwooddixon]

OK. Currently I drive a 1998 E430 Avantgarde saloon. She's starting to get a bit long in the tooth, but still happily swishes me along at twice the legal limit if asked (as demonstrated by a recent trip to Hungary 1600 miles in 19 hours!).

I've shied away from replacing her recently, mainly due to the quality issues that certain model years have had, but recently I've been covering about 1000 miles per week as part of a recent work contract. Filling the tank up every two days doesn't do my wallet much good

So recently my wallet has been saying "Buy a diesel" and unfortunately, the whispering campaign is starting to win. I reckon that I'd save about £60 per week in fuel.

I'd probably be looking at an E320 CDI, in Avantgarde trim as I find the Elegance/Classic suspension too soft but I have some points which I'd like you opinions/answers on.

Firstly - performance - ideally I don't want a downgrade from what I have at the moment. I appreciate that a CDI would have pretty good mid range for country roads, but what about motorways?
What are they like at 100 say?
What rpm do they typically turn at at that speed? Are they getting a bit breathless if you wish to go faster?
And what fuel economy would I be looking at?

Secondly - I've been reading on the forums a lot about "particulate burn-off" which I assume is something to do with the new EU4 emissions standard. It seems to cause a few problems, but what exactly?
Is it a loss in performance, rough running or what?
It certainly doesn't seem to be pleasant. So should I shy away from cars that meet this standard?

c) Alternatively should I save the money that I'd have to spend on swapping to a new car (say 3-4 years old) and spend it on the old girl and her drinking habit? I reckon I'd have to fork out about £18k for a 3 - 4 year old E320CDI which equates to a lot fuel.

I'd welcome thoughts from both sides of the camp please.

 

[Wezzel]

Have you looked at the cost of an LPG conversion?

 

[mattsurf]

I borrowed an E430 for a while and I own an E320 CDI - although I can only talk about the W210 320CDI - At 100mph it is completely effortless, on one run in Germany I ran at 140mph with no problems and the car felt like there was still some in reserve

If you drive on a long run at 80mph you will get 37mpg on a motorway run @70mph you should see over 40mpg. driving short distances you will be lucky to see over 30mpg. Overall I get just under 35mpg - on a combination of A road, town and motorway driving (50% motorway, 30% A road, 20% town). The fuel consumption is OK up to 85 - 90 mph then falls very rapidly. In Germany at 100mph+ cruising I was getting somewhere around 29 - 30 mpg (I do drive an estate, which must account for 5% worse fuel consumption) - Also remember that diesel is 7p more per litre

In terms of performance the CDI is fine once the turbo is up to speed, mid range is easily a match for the E430.... however, it is very disappointing from low speed - On my daily commute the M42 merges with the M6 toll road - with cars comming down the toll road at 50mph more than the slow moving M42 traffic, as I need to get onto the M6 I have to negotiate this merge every day - this is a bit of a pain, and I tend to leave a 50 yard gap in front of me to let the turbo wind up before pulling into the fast traffic

Matt

 

[brandwooddixon]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Wezzel - LPG isn't really an option. The nearest station to where I live with it is 30-40 minutes drive.

Mattsurf - Interesting points. Oddly enough my current commute takes me round Birmingham on the old M6 and down the M40. At standard M40 speeds I currently get around 26mpg. Having not driven many turbo cars I'm surprised that there is still noticeable turbo lag, but then I note that your car is a 210 - I wonder if the new versions with 500Nm torque show the same characteristics.

 

[Blobcat]

I've a colleague with a S210 430 and my W211 E320CDI is more than a match for it. Previously I had a W210 E320CDI and happily cruised through Germany at 145mph with 3 passengers and a full luggage complement.
I've never noticed turbo lag on either of my 320's however I do plan ahead and use tiptronic as when I want to go I want to go :twisted:

No issues with burning off deposits in the particular filter however I believe the early W211's had fuel economy issues as it does use fuel to burn it off. You can see the fuel economy figures for my W210 in my signature and the hyper links give a full breakdown off all costs for my W210 for 109K miles.
My W211 is averaging ~37mpg for similar driving to the W211.

 

[st4]

My boss's old man has one. He had 145mph out of it but reckoned by 140mph it was running out of steam.

In the W211 the newer 320cdi is a V6, with 3 litres and the older car (pre 05 IIRC) is a striaght six with 3.2 litres.

The V6 car is the one to go for as its faster, more refined, more economical etc.

It should be a match for your 430, maybe not off the line but in gear and upto around 135mph it will be fine I guess.

Remember although you are saving money on fuel, you are having to fork out for a new motor, if financing any fuel saving will be gobbled up in monthly repayments for the more economical car. Still a W211 is a fantastic car....

 

[brandwooddixon]

So really I'd need to look for a post 2005 car if it's to have the more powerful V6?

I'd maybe be looking at purchase towards the summer or maybe a little later, without the option of finance.

I've had my current car since 2001 and tend to buy cars when they are a couple of years old or so.

Although fuel pricing was the final straw I had been wondering about buying a replacement for some time now but had been holding back due to the quality issues that MB experienced over the past few years. They seem to have got over that now.

Diesels now seem to offer great performance, but for the age of my car that didn't hold so true.

 

[Blobcat]

Diesels now seem to offer great performance, but for the age of my car that didn't hold so true.

In '98 that was true however not the V6 E320CDI is faster 0-60 and top end than the E350 petrol! which I understand actually has a 3.7Ltr engine.

I can also get 700miles from a tank of diesel

 

[st4]

A 2005 W211 E class should be fine quailty wise. Try and get the V6 engine.

I am amazed at the rate of developments with diesel technology, they are now kust as good as the petrol engines, if not better.

 

[jberks]

I've not driven the 430, bot have both eth 320cdis. Yes the IL6 320cdi is very quick but it is one of the old style cdis with considerable turbo lag. I did fiind myself sitting in the middle lane with traffic bearing down on me and no power - quite alarming for a second or so and then the neck cracking power arrived and all was well again.
The V6 is a totally differnt beast. Basically linear power like a petrol and better economy too. On my commute, the il6 returned 37 - against the 32 my E240 returned. The V6 would crack 40 quite easily.

 

[jon cash]

i have one word for you my friend BRABUS D6 power chip, it will easily replace your E430 power but it is only available with the newer V6, power increases by 45 bhp and fuel consumption will not be affected nor warranty, I have sold a few here in ireland and every one that has them fitted has raved about the cars low range power. I never though i could enjoy a diesel car until the 320 (3222cc) was lauched but even as good as that is the V6 (2987cc) is a superstar engine, It can even hold its own with BMW twin turbo 535D but only with the Brabus witchcraft, Dont hesistate take the plunge it will make you smile every day and you can laugh at guys in petrols wasting money every mile they drive

 

[Speedmaster]

I had a similar dilema when I bought the Range Rover at Xmas. I drove the diesel 3.0 and found it a bit gutless but it is obviously the sensible buy. However I went for the 4.4 V8 petrol even though it costs almost £100 to fill it and that lasts about as far as the next fuel station I got such a good deal on it over a diesel it will pay for a lot of petrol and is a much nicer drive

 

[stumpy]

I had a similar dilema when I bought the Range Rover at Xmas. I drove the diesel 3.0 and found it a bit gutless but it is obviously the sensible buy. However I went for the 4.4 V8 petrol even though it costs almost £100 to fill it and that lasts about as far as the next fuel station I got such a good deal on it over a diesel it will pay for a lot of petrol and is a much nicer drive

Having a similar debate with my sister over her next vehicle. Looks like she is plumping for a new Bi-fuel Subaru Outback with about 6 grand off list

 

[Speedmaster]

There is of course the new 3.6 V8 Diesel in the Range Rover which would be diesel and fast but sadly too much for this time. (although the Supercharged petrol Range Rovers look v v good value compated with the diesel )

Sounds as though with the mileage you do, the E320 Cdi would be good idea. Sooner or later you will start getting big bills/rust etc with the E430

 

[st4]

Most E classes sold are Diesel fuelled, and are easier to sell on. Its for a reason, because they are genuinely good.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

I've owned a 320CDi on an X plate for over 3 years now and am extremely pleased with it. The performance is stunning and yet provides economical motoring. Sure you will miss a little of the refinement of the petrol V8 initially compared to the IL6, and if that matters spend a little more and go for the V6 diesel. I have now decided that when I change the 210 it will be for the 211 V6 diesel but I'm in no hurry as the IL6 is so good.

Hope this helps!

 

[brandwooddixon]

Well as I received a mailer from my local dealer group offering large discounts on what I assume is trade in stock after the recent plate change. I may wait until September and see what crops up then.

Your comments about the V6 diesel 320CDI have sold it to me. I'll just soldier on with mine for the moment and plump for the diesel when I change it.

In the meantime it'll give me a chance to save up some more pennies, and in the meantime the purchase price of any post 2005 car will drop by more than I'll lose in depreciation on my E430.

 

[st4]

Well as I received a mailer from my local dealer group offering large discounts on what I assume is trade in stock after the recent plate change. I may wait until September and see what crops up then.

Your comments about the V6 diesel 320CDI have sold it to me. I'll just soldier on with mine for the moment and plump for the diesel when I change it.

In the meantime it'll give me a chance to save up some more pennies, and in the meantime the purchase price of any post 2005 car will drop by more than I'll lose in depreciation on my E430.

Very sound and reasoned logic. Be aware that the W211 E class will be replaced in 2009/10. This will effect the value of your W210 and negociate hard on the purchase price of the V6.

Good lukc with your purchase, you will not be dissappointed.