Totally disillusioned with MB

[markg14]

Absolutely 100% disillusioned with MB UK.

The saga of my 09/2007 W204 C220 CDI Sport continues.

Gearbox software problems from new.
Updated software numerous times.
New torque converter at 33,000 miles (symptoms from 20,000 onwards), and software on both the engine and gearbox "updated'. I am positive that this had a negative effect on both the economy and performance.
Torque converter symptoms returned recently at 50,000 miles, and reported to MB at 60,000 mile service.
MB took it in for examination and could find no fault. When I took the technician out in the car, he agreed 100% that the problem was the torque converter.
They have had the car for the last 3 weeks, and in that time they have:-

1. Tried numerous "re-adaptions" on the torque converter
2. Fiddled about with the software
3. Changed the ATM fluid completely
4. Changed the ATM fluid (for a "different type" of ATM fluid) again
5. Fitted a new prop shaft (this one left both me and the technician baffled)
6. Finally fitted second replacement (third from new) new torque converter

The symptoms (vibration and humming) have now disappeared, but I am sure the car has also been de-tuned (again). I am going to take the car for a dyno test tomorrow to see what power it is producing as it is definitely not pulling as strongly as it did pre the above.

To top all this, when the car was returned to me after 3 weeks, there was a scratch and scuff on the front bumper which I noticed only when I got home.
MB will not accept responsibility for the bodywork damage, but are willing to have their repairer (non-MB, but MB "approved") make good out of "goodwill". I am insisting that an MB repairer does the repair, but MB dealer says he won't pay. Does anyone know the legal position regarding nomination of repairer please? Can't believe MB would refuse my nomination of authorised and franchised MB bodyshop!!!

 

[Xtractorfan]

The owner of the car decides where the repairs are to be done, but as the garage is having the repairs done out of goodwill and have not claimed liability then you really are at their mercy, I would be quite happy to let them have the car repaired with the provisio that you are completely satisfied with the finished repair..

The authorised Mb bodyshop will be charging top dollar, so these guys are using their own repairer, and normally they do only use the best.. tho they could be doing a smart repair..

Best of luck..

 

[Rory]

The saga of my 09/2007

09/2007? How old is the car?

You seem to have put a lot of miles on it - when would you be thinking of changing it, perhaps it's time to cut your losses and move on?


I could really do with updating my 2004 C270CDi, but this kind of story terrifies me - I'd be suicidal if I had that much trouble with a car.

 

[robertjrt]

I could really do with updating my 2004 C270CDi, but this kind of story terrifies me - I'd be suicidal if I had that much trouble with a car.[/QUOTE]

I have been in dispute with Mercedes-Benz from January 2006 and it is still nowhere near over. I recommend Citalopram, Mg, daily to keep the suicide thoughts away, well, they work for me!

The scratched paintwork sound familiar, mine was £600 worth. I refused to pay and just before an Inspection I had commissioned it was repaired/painted as "Goodwill". It was a sub-standard job complete with over spray.

This is why I am refusing to take my car from Mercedes-Benz Chelsea until I have had it inspected, again.

Once I drive my car away I have a very good idea of what will happen next!

 

[markg14]

Apologies - the car is 09/2009.

Spoke to the dealer today.

My proposal to have the damage repaired at an MB paintshop did not go down well.

The MB paintshop estimated over £500 to remove and repaint the whole bumper.

Estimate faxed to MB dealer, who again denied liability, and repeated their goodwill offer.

I offered £100 toward the repair, as the bumper did have a few stone chips, and did not expect them to pay for those to be repaired.

Also advised MB dealer that if he did not foot the bill for the repair at a garage of my choice he would be liable for any legal bills incurred.

About twenty minutes later, his boss phoned and told me to go ahead with the repair, and they would send me a cheque for the estimate minus £100.

Still leaves a bad taste, having to battle and threaten legal action to restore car to previous condition.

 

[robertjrt]

Apologies - the car is 09/2009.

Spoke to the dealer today.

My proposal to have the damage repaired at an MB paint shop did not go down well.

The MB paintshop estimated over £500 to remove and repaint the whole bumper.

Estimate faxed to MB dealer, who again denied liability, and repeated their goodwill offer.

I offered £100 toward the repair, as the bumper did have a few stone chips, and did not expect them to pay for those to be repaired.

Also advised MB dealer that if he did not foot the bill for the repair at a garage of my choice he would be liable for any legal bills incurred.

About twenty minutes later, his boss phoned and told me to go ahead with the repair, and they would send me a cheque for the estimate minus £100.

Still leaves a bad taste, having to battle and threaten legal action to restore car to previous condition.

Well done Markg14, you will now have control over who paints your car and will be able to inspect the job before accepting your car back.

It is so unnecessary that one has to go down this road to seek redress for damage to your car from a garage who has a Duty of Care to your property.

It is so easy for the garage to say "the damage was there when the car came in" and so difficult to disprove.

I would argue that to "Deny liability" and then offer "Goodwill" when challenged is getting very, very close to Fraud, a criminal offense, and if this is a pre-planned ploy "Conspiracy to Defraud" may well be the charge.

Mercedes-Benz really must get its act together, and soon.

 

[st4]

Absolutely 100% disillusioned with MB UK.

The saga of my 09/2007 W204 C220 CDI Sport continues.

Gearbox software problems from new.
Updated software numerous times.
New torque converter at 33,000 miles (symptoms from 20,000 onwards), and software on both the engine and gearbox "updated'. I am positive that this had a negative effect on both the economy and performance.
Torque converter symptoms returned recently at 50,000 miles, and reported to MB at 60,000 mile service.
MB took it in for examination and could find no fault. When I took the technician out in the car, he agreed 100% that the problem was the torque converter.
They have had the car for the last 3 weeks, and in that time they have:-

1. Tried numerous "re-adaptions" on the torque converter
2. Fiddled about with the software
3. Changed the ATM fluid completely
4. Changed the ATM fluid (for a "different type" of ATM fluid) again
5. Fitted a new prop shaft (this one left both me and the technician baffled)
6. Finally fitted second replacement (third from new) new torque converter

The symptoms (vibration and humming) have now disappeared, but I am sure the car has also been de-tuned (again). I am going to take the car for a dyno test tomorrow to see what power it is producing as it is definitely not pulling as strongly as it did pre the above.

To top all this, when the car was returned to me after 3 weeks, there was a scratch and scuff on the front bumper which I noticed only when I got home.
MB will not accept responsibility for the bodywork damage, but are willing to have their repairer (non-MB, but MB "approved") make good out of "goodwill". I am insisting that an MB repairer does the repair, but MB dealer says he won't pay. Does anyone know the legal position regarding nomination of repairer please? Can't believe MB would refuse my nomination of authorised and franchised MB bodyshop!!!

Apologies - the car is 09/2009.

Spoke to the dealer today.

My proposal to have the damage repaired at an MB paintshop did not go down well.

The MB paintshop estimated over £500 to remove and repaint the whole bumper.

Estimate faxed to MB dealer, who again denied liability, and repeated their goodwill offer.

I offered £100 toward the repair, as the bumper did have a few stone chips, and did not expect them to pay for those to be repaired.

Also advised MB dealer that if he did not foot the bill for the repair at a garage of my choice he would be liable for any legal bills incurred.

About twenty minutes later, his boss phoned and told me to go ahead with the repair, and they would send me a cheque for the estimate minus £100.

Still leaves a bad taste, having to battle and threaten legal action to restore car to previous condition.

Sorry, but 60k on an 09 car doesn't add up.

IIRC the 204 has been on sale for less than 3 years and MB offer 3 yrs manfucturers cover with unlimited miles so you're fine for repairs etc.

 

[television]

Sorry, but 60k on an 09 car doesn't add up.

IIRC the 204 has been on sale for less than 3 years and MB offer 3 yrs manfucturers cover with unlimited miles so you're fine for repairs etc.

Its a 09 = Sept car year 2007

 

[st4]

Its a 09 = Sept car year 2007

Ah so the 09/2009 is a typo :Oops:

Must be a very early 204 but they used carry over parts from the facelifted version of my car which are faily proven. There seems to be few 204 issues which is nice so this is not so good.

I'd probably suggest to the OP, as the car is just within warranty to push them for a complete new gearbox, torque coverter (i'm suprised they changed the fluid in it at all as its not the MB way ) as something isn't right. Perhaps also take it to another garage and have them give the car the once over. A diesel should also improve with age, as it beds in and make gains in MPG and performance. It should not feel less slow. A dyno test or back to back test of another 220cdi 204 would back this up.

Otherwise if they are planning to change it soon, PX and get a nice 211 or 204 320cdi

 

[television]

Ah so the 09/2009 is a typo :Oops:

i

I have just re read it and in the next post it a 2009 sorry, I will go and have a drink

 

[Xtractorfan]

It has been known for some garages to slightly detune an engine where there are problems with gearbox/torque convertors, just to see if this will solve the problems..

 

[keith100]

I have just re read it and in the next post it a 2009 sorry, I will go and have a drink

Maybe its an 007 car? Bound to die!

Sorry to joke about your problem. Mark, trouble at 60,000 miles is pretty poor for an auto box and I understand your outrage. I've never had trouble with a slushbox, from a 1957 powerglide (Wow) to my current 7speed. (now touching wood!!)

I do see a good few posts here, though, about the MB torque converter. But this is ancient technology -(1939?) basically one fan throwing oil at another fan. Whats to go wrong?

 

[Dosco]

Maybe its an 007 car? Bound to die!

Sorry to joke about your problem. Mark, trouble at 60,000 miles is pretty poor for an auto box and I understand your outrage. I've never had trouble with a slushbox, from a 1957 powerglide (Wow) to my current 7speed. (now touching wood!!)

I do see a good few posts here, though, about the MB torque converter. But this is ancient technology -(1939?) basically one fan throwing oil at another fan. Whats to go wrong?

Fluid Flywheels eh that brings back memory's The Vulcan Sinclair in my case.

Back to the plot as an avid reader of all things technical I have fornd this post is one of those events that we all hope eill never happen to us and I have grerat sympathy for you Mark even more so the MB seem to have hit the wall and seemingly letting you down in the process. We have had so many 'poor service/support' posts over recent months it does beggar the question as to a shift in policy by the Mighty B in that to maintain the germanic tradition that everything they make is fool proof, reliable, totally fit for purpose above and beyond the rest of the pack is too expensive to maintain and therfore has to stop except in extreme cases and then you and I have to fight really hard for it.

Also it has to be said that such a program of goodwill can and is abused.

During my time with a very large Multi National German Company I found the policy to be considered 'fair game' for anyone and indeed the louder and longer someone shouted there was a good chance of them getting what they wanted and sadly those with money and social position plus the contacts were always my biggest nightmare.

 

[markg14]

Apologies to all for the confusion I have caused....

The car is September 2007, and is just over halfway through it's manufacturers warranty.

The problems experienced seem to only occur on the C220 CDI engine, probably due to the immense torque produced at relatively low revs.

Besides the fact that the car is on it's 3rd torque converter at 60,000 miles, my concern is now that the fault is inherent in this engine/gearbox combination, and how MB will treat me once the 3-year unlimited mileage warranty expires.

"Goodwill" just won't cut it for me.

I also suspect that many more C220 CDI's will be affected as their mileage rises, and MB will have many more warranty claims to deal with from the owners who are capable of spotting such a fault.

As the thread title says, I am thoroughly disillusioned with MB.

 

[Rory]

The car is September 2007, and is just over halfway through it's manufacturers warranty.

The problems experienced seem to only occur on the C220 CDI engine, probably due to the immense torque produced at relatively low revs.

Besides the fact that the car is on it's 3rd torque converter at 60,000 miles, my concern is now that the fault is inherent in this engine/gearbox combination, and how MB will treat me once the 3-year unlimited mileage warranty expires.

"Goodwill" just won't cut it for me.

If you carry on adding miles at the same rate then the car's going to be circa 120K miles at 3 yrs. Even for "normal" users MB's idea of goodwill is typically to contribute some minor percentage of a stunningly high bill such that it would be cheaper to get the car fixed elsewhere. In your case I'm sure they will throw their hands up and point to the mileage and laugh.

If the car has some sort of intrinsic fault then surely you want to be getting shut of it before the warranty expires?

 

[sweeper]

To top all this, when the car was returned to me after 3 weeks, there was a scratch and scuff on the front bumper which I noticed only when I got home.
MB will not accept responsibility for the bodywork damage, but are willing to have their repairer (non-MB, but MB "approved") make good out of "goodwill". I am insisting that an MB repairer does the repair, but MB dealer says he won't pay. Does anyone know the legal position regarding nomination of repairer please? Can't believe MB would refuse my nomination of authorised and franchised MB bodyshop!!!

I think you'll find MB always use approved bodyshops as they haven't many, if any, of their own.

 

[markg14]

Dealer has finally agreed liability and to allow the repair at my nominated repairer (MB bodyshop).
Well he said "the cheque is in the post".....

 

[harp1963]

markg14. Good to hear that MB are replacing the torque converter again, Did not hear from you again when you e mailed me so I suppose you got on OK.
Well, I now own a C180 Blue effieciency and guess what, the gearbox is rubbish again. Not the same problems but new ones. I have made my mind up now. MB are absolutley rubbish and a waste of money and time.
The W204 model might be good to look at, but its how it drives that matters.
Absolute complete and utter rubbish in mechanical quality.
As for me Mercedes R.I.P.

 

[st4]

Apologies to all for the confusion I have caused....

The car is September 2007, and is just over halfway through it's manufacturers warranty.

The problems experienced seem to only occur on the C220 CDI engine, probably due to the immense torque produced at relatively low revs.

Besides the fact that the car is on it's 3rd torque converter at 60,000 miles, my concern is now that the fault is inherent in this engine/gearbox combination, and how MB will treat me once the 3-year unlimited mileage warranty expires.

"Goodwill" just won't cut it for me.

I also suspect that many more C220 CDI's will be affected as their mileage rises, and MB will have many more warranty claims to deal with from the owners who are capable of spotting such a fault.

As the thread title says, I am thoroughly disillusioned with MB.

Its got a 3yr unlimited milliage warranty. The 220cdi doesn't produce the most torque in the 204 range, the 320cdi, 350 petrols and 63s out torque it but they have different tranmissions. The 5sp box, 220cdi engine are pretty reliable units. You've been really unlucky and 120k over 3yrs isn't unheard of. After 3yrs I'd PX it and try another MB as if its under warranty you got nowt to lose.

 

[harp1963]

ST4, depreciation perhaps.