ULEZ forcing change to petrol model - any thoughts/advice?

[JBell]

But I didn't see the OP mention the £16K ?? It would be useful to know if he's thinking of spending £5k £10k or £20k to give an idea... Plus if he owns the E class outright or if it's going back on a lease or something?

You asked the question in post #7. I looked on AT to get an idea of price!!

 

[MBDevotee]

Lol no of course it doesn't - and we know you are an EV hater Blobcat, that's fine.....

Others opinions are valid too tho

 

[Blobcat]

Lol no of course it doesn't - and we know you are an EV hater Blobcat, that's fine.....

Others opinions are valid too tho

I'm not an EV Hater, what I completely disagree with is that EV's are the panacea to the worlds problems. You have been sold a lie if you think differently. Wait for the tax to bite once more people succumb to the madness that is EV's

 

[MBDevotee]

I'm not an EV Hater, what I completely disagree with is that EV's are the panacea to the worlds problems. You have been sold a lie if you think differently. Wait for the tax to bite once more people succumb to the madness that is EV's

I agree completely. They aren't the solution.

However... at the moment they are the perceived solution to the worlds (or at least the UK's) somewhat odd government policy.

So, we have free charging dotted about everywhere, rumours EV's will be able to use bus lanes (can't see that happening - nor do I think it should), no road tax, no company car tax this year, pretty much none next year.

Hydrogen (which I do think holds a lot more promise for the future) - no investment in infrastructure, so even if you could buy the cars at a sensible price (Toyota and Hyundai's fuel cell cars are both £60k + and lease only) you can't fill the damn things - so they are pointless at the moment imho in this country.

The tax will go up - I get that, and so it should. I am riding the current benefit quite cynically and perfectly aware it won't last forever - but "Madness of EV's"? Really? Why are they mad?

My EV turns electrical energy into motive power massively more efficiently than an ICE engine (if only they could extract more energy from the raw fuel of ICE we might actually have the perfect car then!)

A litre of petrol has 8.76 KWh of energy in it. So a "normal" fuel tank in a car contains say 60 litres? So 60 x 8.76 is 525 KWH of energy. My car does 4.3 miles per KWh - so if I could pour fuel into it and drive it, it would do 2260 miles on a tankful of unleaded - most cars about 400-500 miles on that energy.

In the first quarter of 2020 - 47% of electricity was renewable in the UK (at home, 100% of my electricity is renewable - "Bulb").

So - if you have a petrol car - and do (for ease of maths) 565 miles on your 60 litres of petrol, you are using 100% non-renewable energy.

In my EV I can travel (effectively) 2260 miles on the same amount of fuel which is 4 times as much - and only 53% of that energy was non-renewable - so I am using 1/8 of the fossil fuel you are in your petrol car.


I KNOW my argument has massive holes in it in terms of transmission of power once created.

I KNOW the batteries in my car are not the most environmentally friendly things to produce....

BUT the reality is, that during it's life, my car will consume massively less of the fossil fuel a normal ICE car will....... And that will improve as more power is created in a renewable way in the UK.

I can also get solar and charge the car from that - ICE Drivers can't.... and so on.

The new EV's can also store solar and then feed that power back to the house in the evening (peak 4-7pm) then charge overnight on a cheap tariff when far more electricity is generated in UK than used - thus smoothing out demand.

They aren't perfect, but they certainly aren't "Madness" - they are the best solution we have at the moment, I do hope something better comes along, but no sign at the moment.

 

[Blobcat]

I agree completely. They aren't the solution.

However... at the moment they are the perceived solution to the worlds (or at least the UK's) somewhat odd government policy.

So, we have free charging dotted about everywhere, rumours EV's will be able to use bus lanes (can't see that happening - nor do I think it should), no road tax, no company car tax this year, pretty much none next year.

Hydrogen (which I do think holds a lot more promise for the future) - no investment in infrastructure, so even if you could buy the cars at a sensible price (Toyota and Hyundai's fuel cell cars are both £60k + and lease only) you can't fill the damn things - so they are pointless at the moment imho in this country.

The tax will go up - I get that, and so it should. I am riding the current benefit quite cynically and perfectly aware it won't last forever - but "Madness of EV's"? Really? Why are they mad?

My EV turns electrical energy into motive power massively more efficiently than an ICE engine (if only they could extract more energy from the raw fuel of ICE we might actually have the perfect car then!)

A litre of petrol has 8.76 KWh of energy in it. So a "normal" fuel tank in a car contains say 60 litres? So 60 x 8.76 is 525 KWH of energy. My car does 4.3 miles per KWh - so if I could pour fuel into it and drive it, it would do 2260 miles on a tankful of unleaded - most cars about 400-500 miles on that energy.

In the first quarter of 2020 - 47% of electricity was renewable in the UK (at home, 100% of my electricity is renewable - "Bulb").

So - if you have a petrol car - and do (for ease of maths) 565 miles on your 60 litres of petrol, you are using 100% non-renewable energy.

In my EV I can travel (effectively) 2260 miles on the same amount of fuel which is 4 times as much - and only 53% of that energy was non-renewable - so I am using 1/8 of the fossil fuel you are in your petrol car.


I KNOW my argument has massive holes in it in terms of transmission of power once created.

I KNOW the batteries in my car are not the most environmentally friendly things to produce....

BUT the reality is, that during it's life, my car will consume massively less of the fossil fuel a normal ICE car will....... And that will improve as more power is created in a renewable way in the UK.

I can also get solar and charge the car from that - ICE Drivers can't.... and so on.

The new EV's can also store solar and then feed that power back to the house in the evening (peak 4-7pm) then charge overnight on a cheap tariff when far more electricity is generated in UK than used - thus smoothing out demand.

They aren't perfect, but they certainly aren't "Madness" - they are the best solution we have at the moment, I do hope something better comes along, but no sign at the moment.

They are absolute madness, moving the emissions elsewhere doesn‘t in any way whatsoever alleviate the issues.

The only thing “green” about an EV is if it’s painted that colour...

It will no doubt take a few years before people wake up to that they are much, much, much worse than maintaining what you already have.

Why anyone would want an EV when ICE is available is beyond me. Unless of course it is free (yours...) or the tax incentives (BIK) are such that you have to forced into one as it’s your only option.

 

[A.J.]

They are absolute madness, moving the emissions elsewhere doesn‘t in any way whatsoever alleviate the issues.

The only thing “green” about an EV is if it’s painted that colour...

It will no doubt take a few years before people wake up to that they are much, much, much worse than maintaining what you already have.

Why anyone would want an EV when ICE is available is beyond me. Unless of course it is free (yours...) or the tax incentives (BIK) are such that you have to forced into one as it’s your only option.

That is exactly it, they are only green at point of use. In all other areas they are an absolute disaster. As you say just moving emissions elsewhere

 

[MBDevotee]

They are absolute madness, moving the emissions elsewhere doesn‘t in any way whatsoever alleviate the issues.

The only thing “green” about an EV is if it’s painted that colour...

Why anyone would want an EV when ICE is available is beyond me. Unless of course it is free (yours...) or the tax incentives (BIK) are such that you have to forced into one as it’s your only option.

1) No it doesn't - however when 47% of power generation is now renewable energy, they don't just "Move it elsewhere" - an EV is approx 4 times more efficient in using power than an ICE car, so purely from that point of view they are better - then by using 47% renewable energy that makes them 8 times more environmentally friendly purely in power used terms.

2) Hmm

3) Well for starters:-
a) Silent running at town speeds.
b) Very refined at motorway speeds
c) Almost instant defrosting in the winter - the heat pump produces hot air in about 30 sec.
d) The ability to heat or cool the interior of my car to a nice toasty 23 degrees from the house via an app when it's freezing outside (or 35 degrees in the summer) - (not exclusively EV territory I admit).
e) Free fuel or fuel at a massively reduced price.
Tesco - Free chargers
Asda - £1.20 charge for a full "tank" - so 282 miles of driving for £1.20
Sainsburys - Free Chargers
Local Car Park - Free chargers.

4) Free parking (sometimes with free fuel too) at many car parks.

5) Congestion charge free

6) UlEZ proof.

7) ZEZ proof.......


Would you like some more reasons to go EV?

 

[MBDevotee]

That is exactly it, they are only green at point of use. In all other areas they are an absolute disaster. As you say just moving emissions elsewhere

Not true!

ICE cars pollute at the tailpipe - so in cities and towns creating pollution

EV's pollute at the source of production - but given a good ICE car is about 25% efficient at turning fuel energy into driving a typical power station is in the mid 80% efficient..... Renewable energy is 47% of generation now - that doesn't pollute at all....

So no, not even remotely true.

 

[Blobcat]

1) No it doesn't - however when 47% of power generation is now renewable energy, they don't just "Move it elsewhere" - an EV is approx 4 times more efficient in using power than an ICE car, so purely from that point of view they are better - then by using 47% renewable energy that makes them 8 times more environmentally friendly purely in power used terms.

2) Hmm

3) Well for starters:-
a) Silent running at town speeds.
b) Very refined at motorway speeds
c) Almost instant defrosting in the winter - the heat pump produces hot air in about 30 sec.
d) The ability to heat or cool the interior of my car to a nice toasty 23 degrees from the house via an app when it's freezing outside (or 35 degrees in the summer) - (not exclusively EV territory I admit).
e) Free fuel or fuel at a massively reduced price.
Tesco - Free chargers
Asda - £1.20 charge for a full "tank" - so 282 miles of driving for £1.20
Sainsburys - Free Chargers
Local Car Park - Free chargers.

4) Free parking (sometimes with free fuel too) at many car parks.

5) Congestion charge free

6) UlEZ proof.

7) ZEZ proof.......


Would you like some more reasons to go EV?

Not true!

ICE cars pollute at the tailpipe - so in cities and towns creating pollution

EV's pollute at the source of production - but given a good ICE car is about 25% efficient at turning fuel energy into driving a typical power station is in the mid 80% efficient..... Renewable energy is 47% of generation now - that doesn't pollute at all....

So no, not even remotely true.

There's none so blind as those that will not see...

1) No it doesn't - however when 47% of power generation is now renewable energy, they don't just "Move it elsewhere" - an EV is approx 4 times more efficient in using power than an ICE car, so purely from that point of view they are better - then by using 47% renewable energy that makes them 8 times more environmentally friendly purely in power used terms. - You've ignored the diesel generators that have to be available to cover when the wind isn't blowing or it's blowing too much or at the wrong time, you can't see them on the top of the hills or out on the coast so they don't exist to the EV disciples...

2) Hmm - They do make an annoying whine don't they...

3) Well for starters:-
a) Silent running at town speeds. - Dangerous for partially sited or anyone else expecting to hear vehicles approaching...
b) Very refined at motorway speeds - No refining at all, apart from the rare earth materials removed from the planet with no regard to H&S or environmental impact - I'd take a IL3, IL4, IL5, IL6, IL8, V2, V4, V6, V8, V12 or V16 over a EV for refinement every single day...
c) Almost instant defrosting in the winter - the heat pump produces hot air in about 30 sec. - Just like most modern ICE cars then... just make sure you turn all that electrickery off so you reach your destination without having to wait for hours on end in a god forsaken hell hole of a services for the previous EV to move away from the charger.. then hope you have the correct lead and that your EV will "talk" to the charger...
d) The ability to heat or cool the interior of my car to a nice toasty 23 degrees from the house via an app when it's freezing outside (or 35 degrees in the summer) - (not exclusively EV territory I admit). - So just like modern ICE... hardly good for the environment though you burning all that electrickery when you're sat in the house...
e) Free fuel or fuel at a massively reduced price. - What is this "Free" of which you speak? Environmental impact free? not even slightly - cost free? well someones paying for it ever if you're not (now) - I liken it to the local drug dealer giving away fee samples... you're hooked and then the cost skyrockets - (taxed to the hilt before you know it in your case)
Tesco - Free chargers - For now... and you stil have to drive an EV...
Asda - £1.20 charge for a full "tank" - so 282 miles of driving for £1.20 - You have to drive an EV though...
Sainsburys - Free Chargers - For now... and you stil have to drive an EV...
Local Car Park - Free chargers. - For now... and you stil have to drive an EV...

4) Free parking (sometimes with free fuel too) at many car parks. - Park further way and walk - much better for the heart - if no free parking close by - I honestly can't remember the last time I paid for parking anywhere

5) Congestion charge free - Much better not going anywhere near a congestion charge zone, of using public transport if you have to venture - although why would you in today's climate is beyond me

6) UlEZ proof. - For now... just wait for the tax revenue to drop then get the kick

7) ZEZ proof....... - For now... just wait for the tax revenue to drop then get the kick

Anymore poorly thought out arguments for EV's you'd like me to answer?

 

[Srdl]

Enough - I seem to remember we’ve been through all this several time before, guys

Back to the OP's question! You will miss the torque of the diesel, especially the V6. I did and I went for a powerful petrol engine. I’m used to the difference now but I’m not sure I could get used to a 2 litre petrol in a biggish car.

 

[MBDevotee]

So to get back to the thread and the original question....

If you have ruled out diesel, have you considered the options - as in, Petrol, Petrol electric hybrid or full EV? And what is yur budget?

 

[Blobcat]

Enough - I seem to remember we’ve been through all this several time before, guys

Back to the OP's question! You will miss the torque of the diesel, especially the V6. I did and I went for a powerful petrol engine. I’m used to the difference now but I’m not sure I could get used to a 2 litre petrol in a biggish car.

Might fit the bill

 

[GPRS]

Very nice and my budget happens to be about £17k. I decided against the C200 Estate as I would never get used to the reduced power and re-mapping doesn't seem anoption as MSL have said that the M274 engine is difficult to tune and would probably only give an additional 15-20 BHP safely. Others may disagree.

 

[DSK]

If it was me, I'd probably be looking along the lines of a Lexus Hybrid as a serious option. They have been making the things for years and generally very well, as well as offering them in the small to larger models. Alternatively, larger capacity, proven petrol engines is where my money would be.

Do you need to, or want to spend your entire budget, as in will older/cheaper as this could further exploit the possibilities?

FWIW - a colleague has just bought a 1971 Land Rover on ebay today (yes those pure metal ones), which is MOT and TAX exempt to get around the ULEZ boll*cks. He is also unhappy with his new Volvo V90 D5 (too many silly little niggly issues) and looking to terminate that contract and get another older Lexus RX400/Mercedes S500 which show as being ULEZ compliant.

 

[Blobcat]

If it was me, I'd probably be looking along the lines of a Lexus Hybrid as a serious option. They have been making the things for years and generally very well, as well as offering them in the small to larger models. Alternatively, larger capacity, proven petrol engines is where my money would be.

Do you need to, or want to spend your entire budget, as in will older/cheaper as this could further exploit the possibilities?

FWIW - a colleague has just bought a 1971 Land Rover on ebay today (yes those pure metal ones), which is MOT and TAX exempt to get around the ULEZ boll*cks. He is also unhappy with his new Volvo V90 D5 (too many silly little niggly issues) and looking to terminate that contract and get another older Lexus RX400/Mercedes S500 which show as being ULEZ compliant.

I could if I was so inclined register my 110 as ULEZ compliant... it will coal roll with the worst of them but it could be registered... shows how Dagenham (2 stops beyond Barking... ) the system is

 

[MBDevotee]

I could if I was so inclined register my 110 as ULEZ compliant... it will coal roll with the worst of them but it could be registered... shows how Dagenham (2 stops beyond Barking... ) the system is

I suspect it's more complete b*ll*x if the Govt have anything to do with it!

 

[DSK]

I suspect it's more complete b*ll*x if the Govt have anything to do with it!

exactly this!

I contacted Suzuki UK yesterday asking if they could provide details to support my 07' GSXR1000 was ulez compliant, as I believe it is. I was told it will cost me £95 for Suzuki UK to contact Suzuki Japan to get the emissions data etc.

Then I had a look through TFL link that says it needs the above plus may be an independent check and 4-5 photos from various angles …… I gave up reading further

What a ball ache!

 

[Blobcat]

exactly this!

I contacted Suzuki UK yesterday asking if they could provide details to support my 07' GSXR1000 was ulez compliant, as I believe it is. I was told it will cost me £95 for Suzuki UK to contact Suzuki Japan to get the emissions data etc.

Then I had a look through TFL link that says it needs the above plus may be an independent check and 4-5 photos from various angles …… I gave up reading further

What a ball ache!

So with the application of £££ you can register it... that is all it’s about ££££££££££

 

[DSK]

So with the application of £££ you can register it... that is all it’s about ££££££££££

Yes its all about £££££££

I'll just avoid ulez zones …..

 

[MBDevotee]

if yoi can - Bath has just brought in theirs, Bristol soon.

Around here, diesel is dead and I suspect any older petrol too....

Still ok with petrol for a bit.