Veg Oil tests suspended - still have cold starting problems.

Status
Not open for further replies.

pcman_jh

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Messages
317
Reaction score
1
Location
Haddington
Your Mercedes
2013 E220 Cabriolet
I've suspended all tests. The car wouldn't start again (C250 Mercedes) with about a 50% mixture in the tank. I thought this might have been down to the O rings shrinkage letting in air, which it probably was to a degree, but I've changed almost all O rings.

My conclusion for an unmodified vehicle is that once you can get it started first thing in the morning, it's absolutely fine. The first starting is not consistent either - I can go 3 days without any signs of a hitch, but then on the 4th day it doesn't fire (it actually fires for a fraction of a second then dies. If this occurs it means it isn't intereted in starting without priming the fuel filter with pure diesel, after which it's fine for the rest of the day).

Long term I can see the only solution is a dual tank setup. Diesel for first start of the day, then switch over to a mixture for the rest of the day.
 

Bob 2316

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
109
Reaction score
0
Location
London UK
hi
i have noticed to some degree the same thing with my escort diesel van on a 50/50 mixture . in cold weather over the winter it was difficult to start and i thought it was my glow plugs on the way out, but then when the weather became warmer it started fine. possibly increase the % of mineral oil to vegetable oil from half to say 75% over the winter period.

apart from the winter start problem i have had no troubles running the van and even took the van to its MOT with a tank of 50/50 in it and it actually passed the immissions test better than it did the year before on 100% mineral oil!

i seem to find that i am getting much better fuel consumption with a 50/50 mix, do u find this too?

rgds

bob
 

dieselman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2001
Messages
6,017
Reaction score
12
Your Mercedes
A diesel
Bob

The reason why the emissions were lower for the MOT is that vegatable oil is naturally oxygenated and so burns more effectively thus less particulates, more commonly known as smoke.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Location
Denbigh, Virginia USA
What is the temperature outside when the car will not start? Vegatable oil solidifies at a higher temp than diesel. It will work fine as long as the nights are warm. My daughter, who is an environmental scientist, uses 100% canola oil in her 123 300 turbodiesel though when the temp is cold she stays with winterized diesel.
 
OP
P

pcman_jh

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Messages
317
Reaction score
1
Location
Haddington
Your Mercedes
2013 E220 Cabriolet
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #5
The outside air temp was about 6'Centigrade, or even higher. One observation I've always had is pipe from the the fuel pump (the one for the tank mounted on the cylinder head) to the fuel filter is empty. When I realise it's not going to start and half to fill the filter with pure diesel I note the fuel filter is half empty. This puzzles me as I'd expect it be almost full - Is this a clue?
 

jaymanek

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2002
Messages
791
Reaction score
46
Location
Nuneaton, UK
Website
www.mercland.com
Woah, people are actually puttin veggie oil in their cars??? i thought that was for people who didnt care about their diesel engines???
Not that id ever do it, but what are the pr's and con's??


Jay
 

njpumphrey

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
96
Reaction score
0
Location
Abingdon
This is certainly no joke. I for one was running my w123 240TD on vege oil for two months before I sold it. It ran very well, but did have cold start problems. At the time I put this down to it having the lamest glow plugs and weakest battery in history, but it could be a generic problem. It usually started third time, every time, whether it was sunny or even snowing. Running on a 50/50 mix it started first time. And yes, emissions were lower, adn the engine was quieter, and as for efficiency I wasn't counting as it worked out so cheap anyway. (And it would have been cheaper if I had been filtering used oil!)

P.S. Always pay duty on vege oil, as it is not worth the hassle of doing otherwise. It is free to register and straightforward to keep records and make the payments. See http://www.northwales.org.uk/bio-power/index.htm for further details
 

dieselman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2001
Messages
6,017
Reaction score
12
Your Mercedes
A diesel
Being pulled over and losing the car. If that isn't hassle then what is?
 

JimmyTD

Senior Member
Joined
May 9, 2003
Messages
83
Reaction score
0
Location
Northants
Using 10% vegetable oil does work, makes the engine quieter but stinks!! Not just a 'cooking' smell but a really unpleasant acidic smell.

.............So I have heard. :lol:
 

Bob 2316

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
109
Reaction score
0
Location
London UK
hi jaymaneck
maybe you should read up on Diesel the inventor of the engine not the mineral fuel now called after his name. the engine was orignally designed for agricultural use and was designed to run on pure ground nut oil. there is nothing wrong or bad or dangerous or illegal about running a diesel engine on rapeseed oil. its just the government that does nt wnat you to do it and will say all sorts of lies to make you wary about doing it.

as for having the car confiscated (LOL) well as far as im concerned its all about the matter of duty that (may well not be paid) except for that fact that you fill in a tax return once a year (in arrears) so how in the hell are they gonna prove in court that you are evading yr tax at the time of conficscation?
 

andy_k

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Messages
644
Reaction score
0
Age
67
Location
Bexhill On Sea, East Sussex
Website
www.ak3dgfx.com
Your Mercedes
E55 AMG
Bob 2316 said:
well as far as im concerned its all about the matter of duty that (may well not be paid) except for that fact that you fill in a tax return once a year (in arrears) so how in the hell are they gonna prove in court that you are evading yr tax at the time of conficscation?

surely that's tax to the inland revenue - doesn't tax on fuel fall under customs and excise duty - they have the rights to seizure if they suspect you are either witholding or attempting to withold duty - the onus is on you to prove that you are not.

I may be wrong about who the tax/duty is paid to on this one but i'm sure it's different from your yearly income tax/lie sheet :)

Andy
 

dieselman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2001
Messages
6,017
Reaction score
12
Your Mercedes
A diesel
You have to pay HM Customs and Excise every period, quarterly I think. If you are caught running a car on veg. oil and don't have the appropriate paperwork from C&E, your car will be seized and sold / scrapped.

You need to register with C&E before being caught to be safe.

It's up to you!
 

Bob 2316

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
109
Reaction score
0
Location
London UK
fishtax

yeah yr probably right! my tax return is all about what i spend as im self employed and what i can write off as tax!!. so i guess i better get down to the customs house and get some forms to fill in (he he) at least im truly covered then if i get stopped by the FRYING SQUAD !!! do u have to pay COD or do they tell you what PLAICE to go and make yr payment? maybe they grab you and take you round the back of the van and give you a good BATTERING for a laugh!!
 

dieselman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2001
Messages
6,017
Reaction score
12
Your Mercedes
A diesel
You do need to get it sorted otherwise it's CHIPS for you and your mobile fish shop.
 

bigdaddyt

New Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Missouri
clarification

Now let me get this correct. I can put half a tank of diesel and half a tank of vegitable oil in my 1985 300D Turbo, without modifications, and it will run fine?

Thanks,

ctj
 

bigdaddyt

New Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Missouri
clarification

Now let me get this correct. I can put half a tank of diesel and half a tank of vegitable oil in my 1985 300D Turbo, without modifications, and it will run fine?

Thanks,

ctj
 

njpumphrey

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
96
Reaction score
0
Location
Abingdon
Yes, but being heavier it will sink to the bottom of the tank and not mix readily. Best to make the mixture in a separate container and fill the tank from this. You can always test various mixes by disconnecting both the feed and return fuel lines and putting them into a half full 1.5L pop bottle or something like that. That way if it doesn't run well, you don't have to drain the tank etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


ALL MBO Club members qualify for 15% discount on second hand parts.Please see MBO Members’ Area for discount codewww.dronsfields.com
Top Bottom