w124 vs w201 plus 300E advice. Any tips please?

[Merclad]

Hi everyone,

This is my first thread on here so apologies if I've repeated this same subject 500 times. I'm looking at a 1991 300e 12v auto that has very low miles. Only 81k on the clock and is backed up with MB history until 2001. (Independent after that). Spec includes leccy everything and climate control. I've already taken a good look at the bodywork and its perfect apart from 1 tiny tiny spot on the arch where it meets the front bumper. It also has the 8 hole alloys that really suit the overall style of the car. (One question, the aerial is roof mounted rather than rear wing. Is this a factory option or has this been done by the owner?)

I'm not very familar with the W124 but I had a fantastic 190E 2.0 auto a few years ago. Very smooth and solid. It really put some of the bosses newer 3 series and S40s to shame in the motorway cruising and comfort stakes. It was so much better.

I really am stuck between going for a W201 or W124. Whats the general consensus? Apart from the obvious extra room, is the W124 a better car in terms of quality and driving?

I've seen a lot of threads relating to head gaskets. I had to change it on my 190E so I know whats involved. Apart from oil in the coolant and the peanut butter gunge that can develop - does anyone have any other checks for this?

I was happy with the 2.0 in my 190, but what is the preferred engine choice for the w124? The 200 and 230 sound a touch underpowered but the 260 sounds like a good compromise between performance and economy. Any comments?

Some threads make out that the 300 isn't as strong as legend suggests, but I've seen plenty with 200+ on the clock. Does most of this relate to the 24v, or does the 12v have any known problems. The same threads told of poor starting and iffy idling but wasn't sure of this pointed to one engine, or both of them.

I really can't wait to have another Merc parked on the drive. Any buying advice or comments would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Merclad]

Update on 300E - Nightmare waiting to happen?

I went to look at the 300E I talked about in the post above. The body and interior are 99.9% immaculate. The alloys haven't been kerbed and it looks fantastic. Just a couple of tiny spots but the car looks fantastic for its age (91 H). No probs at all with body, suspension.

I did have a few concerns, and wanted some help, as I'm not that mechanically minded and if it were minor, I'd buy it tomorrow.

1) I checked the oil and coolant caps for signs of any gunge. None at all. Fluids were all at the correct level. The coolant colour did look a slightly murky blue colour. I couldn't be sure if it was oil or not. Is there a way I can test this?
2) The car had been parked up for a while and I noticed a few spots of oil on the ground underneath. Under the bonnet, the engine seemed to be coated with the stuff under/ around the block. The guy said it was 'likely' to be the rocker cover. Sorry if I sound stupid but can someone tell me what is likely to cause this? (Gasket perhaps?)
3) The exhaust didn't smoke at all, but it discharged a quite a few droplets that felt slightly greasy.
4) On ignition and while running, there was a noticeable hissing coming from under the car. It seemed to be coming somewhere from the exhaust just in front of the rear wheels.
5) The climate control. Not sure if I was working it properly! The dash had three buttons between the temperature dials with EC in the middle. I pressed the EC button so it lit, but this did little to cool things down even though both dials were switched to blue (Engine was running by the way). I tried it with the EC button off and no change again. I wasn't sure what the button above and below EC did.

Does this sound like a nightmare waiting to happen? I looked at a couple of 190's straight after which were ok, but my heart is set on an E300. It was so smooth and beautiful to drive.

 

[Richard Moakes]

I went to look at the 300E I talked about in the post above. The body and interior are 99.9% immaculate. The alloys haven't been kerbed and it looks fantastic. Just a couple of tiny spots but the car looks fantastic for its age (91 H). No probs at all with body, suspension.

I did have a few concerns, and wanted some help, as I'm not that mechanically minded and if it were minor, I'd buy it tomorrow.

1) I checked the oil and coolant caps for signs of any gunge. None at all. Fluids were all at the correct level. The coolant colour did look a slightly murky blue colour. I couldn't be sure if it was oil or not. Is there a way I can test this?

Genuine MB coolant is a murky blue colour, what you dont what to see is any oily 'froth' in the header tank

2) The car had been parked up for a while and I noticed a few spots of oil on the ground underneath. Under the bonnet, the engine seemed to be coated with the stuff under/ around the block. The guy said it was 'likely' to be the rocker cover. Sorry if I sound stupid but can someone tell me what is likely to cause this? (Gasket perhaps?)

Front timing cover seal is a common leak point, either live with it or get an independant to fix it.

3) The exhaust didn't smoke at all, but it discharged a quite a few droplets that felt slightly greasy.

Difficult to tell, was it still showing condensation after a run?

4) On ignition and while running, there was a noticeable hissing coming from under the car. It seemed to be coming somewhere from the exhaust just in front of the rear wheels.

Twin fuel pumps, they do make a fair bit of noise, if VERY loud, they need replacing.

5) The climate control. Not sure if I was working it properly! The dash had three buttons between the temperature dials with EC in the middle. I pressed the EC button so it lit, but this did little to cool things down even though both dials were switched to blue (Engine was running by the way). I tried it with the EC button off and no change again. I wasn't sure what the button above and below EC did.

Sounds like the aircon isn't working, 101 possible reasons why!

Does this sound like a nightmare waiting to happen? I looked at a couple of 190's straight after which were ok, but my heart is set on an E300. It was so smooth and beautiful to drive.

Sounds reasonable to me, but as with any used car, you can never be sure what you are buying.

Richard

 

[Merclad]

The info is much appreciated Richard. I'm going to look at the car again tomorrow. The car is being sold at a dealership so I'll put what you said to him and see if he can guarantee/ repair the above faults. The history is good and the bills, mot's and mint interior suggest the mileage to be accurate.

RE: Condensation, I didn't notice any after the run. I only noticed it when I first fired her up and let her sit there for a while to check if it overheated (didn't go above 85C). The guy is using it as a run around at the moment so it hasn't been sitting dormant for a few weeks.

I forgot to mention a few other things: (should I just leave this car alone!!)

1) The oil pressure dial was at 3 on startup, and dropped to 2 or just over on idle when warmed up. My 190E was lower on idle (nearer to 1 than 2). Is this a good reading for the 300?

2) It didn't idle as smooth as I'd imagined it would. Maybe I was being ultra fussy (thus all the questions). When warmed up, the revs needle seemed to 'hover' gently around the 700 rpm mark. Perhaps it just needs a proper long blast as I only took it for a 10 min drive, and there was hardly any fuel in it. (May have just answered my own question!!)

 

[Bolide]

An early 300 like that is a great drive - very smooth and wafty. Or at least it should be

The main drawback of the 300E is bad-to-appalling fuel consumption. Everything else you've mentioned (slight paint bubble on front arch, aircon not working, etc) is standard stuff and exactly what I'd expect

There are plenty of 300Es around. Many were high-spec cars with aircon, leather, cruise, 7 seats & etc so don't feel pressured into buying the first one you see. It's possible to get one in exactly the colour & spec you want if you look around

If it's coming from a dealer I'd make it obvious you're seriously interested and ask them to fix the aircon and give it a fresh MOT. They may well say no to the aircon but nothing ventured nothing gained

Don't overpay. There are plenty of (more economical) E280s around

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Merclad]

Thanks for the advice Nick. This is the first 300E I've seen and my heart is definitely ruling my head on this one and need to be more patient. My original plan was to go for another 190E 2.0/ 2.6 as I loved the one I had to grudgingly sell 2 years ago. After joining this site and looking at/ driving the car mentioned above, I have been totally converted to the W124.

The 280 really appeals, not only because of the fuel economy bonus, but also of the many excellent posts and reviews I've read about the engine. I've been trawling the Auto Trader/ Friday Ads and only found one 280 in my price range (£2k by the way).

Would this be enough to find a good 280 or is my budget better placed for an earlier, but lower mileage 300?

I'm not scared off by high miles and not fussed about toys or equipment. Just want the cleanest example I can find. I'll ask the dealer about the air-con etc. As you say, nothing ventured nothing gained and see what happens.

 

[Richard Moakes]

The info is much appreciated Richard. I'm going to look at the car again tomorrow. The car is being sold at a dealership so I'll put what you said to him and see if he can guarantee/ repair the above faults. The history is good and the bills, mot's and mint interior suggest the mileage to be accurate.

RE: Condensation, I didn't notice any after the run. I only noticed it when I first fired her up and let her sit there for a while to check if it overheated (didn't go above 85C). The guy is using it as a run around at the moment so it hasn't been sitting dormant for a few weeks.

I forgot to mention a few other things: (should I just leave this car alone!!)

1) The oil pressure dial was at 3 on startup, and dropped to 2 or just over on idle when warmed up. My 190E was lower on idle (nearer to 1 than 2). Is this a good reading for the 300?

2) It didn't idle as smooth as I'd imagined it would. Maybe I was being ultra fussy (thus all the questions). When warmed up, the revs needle seemed to 'hover' gently around the 700 rpm mark. Perhaps it just needs a proper long blast as I only took it for a 10 min drive, and there was hardly any fuel in it. (May have just answered my own question!!)

Oil pressure sounds fine, it can get low at idle when hot, but as long as it goes back to 3+ when you get moving then don't worry about it.

M103 engine fitted to 300E's is a very simple engine with pretty simple engine management, it will never idle perfectly smoothly, and sometimes will take more turning over than you would like to start. The plus side when compared to the later 280 and 320 is by comparison an almost total lack of electronics to go wrong, which appeals to me

As Nick says, make sure this is the right one, that rust on the front wing means you need new wings, or those stainless/chrome wheel arch trims to cover it up if you are a cheapskate like me.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[Hanz]

The 280 really appeals, not only because of the fuel economy bonus, but also of the many excellent posts and reviews I've read about the engine. I've been trawling the Auto Trader/ Friday Ads and only found one 280 in my price range (£2k by the way).

Would this be enough to find a good 280 or is my budget better placed for an earlier, but lower mileage 300?

I'm not scared off by high miles and not fussed about toys or equipment. Just want the cleanest example I can find. I'll ask the dealer about the air-con etc. As you say, nothing ventured nothing gained and see what happens.

I have got the E280, 1993 for a grand. It's got 190k on the clock and still going strong. Lots of service history including merc benz up till 171,000. Picked mine up on ebay (not the best place though - I've picked up a few crap cars on there, where I was impatient) Just had it put in for service, what I suspected was the MAF was actually a coil, which cost £44 to replace. No other problems apart from that. The 2.8 6 cylinder engine pulls my estate well, even when loaded (before coil probs ).

The engine drives lovely, and changes gear smoothly.

Just be patient, you're other half will turn up soon. Just have a look at a few and make your mind up then

 

[Merclad]

Thanks for the mechanical advice Richard. Hanz - sounds like you got a bargain there - although I'm not sure if I'd be brave enough to buy a car from eBay. I've attached a pic of the motor that is causing me the headache!



On the way home from the work, I popped into the dealer armed with the info from Richard and Nick. They called me earlier in the day to say that it had been with the mechanic and ran a compression test and done a check on the coolant. They reported that it was the timing cover seal.

FYI - The car is up for £1790. I told them I was interested but needed some assurances first. They have agreed to do the seal, check the hissing and rectify, put the air con right and guarantee any blips. They'll also give it a fresh MOT and give me the remaining tax left (till Aug - every little helps).

I took it out for a longer test today and listened carefully for any unwelcome noises. Nothing at all. No creaks rattles, rumbles or whines whatsoever. Checked the steering and once again - no cracking or noises. Autobox was good. Went through the different selections a number of times and nothing sinister. On the road, I tried sport and economy. I did find that econ was a touch smoother, particularly in kickdown. Car accelerated very smoothly indeed. I wouldn't describe it as extremely rapid, but it whisked me up to 80 (whoopsy daisy) in no time. Oil pressure was 3 at all times while on the move. No steering wobbles and brakes felt very secure with no fade or judder.

I've told the dealer that I'll mull over it and have a couple more to look at. Its highish money I suppose for a 91 300E. If they do the bits and bobs as described, it sounds like a decent deal to me?

What does everyone else think? Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to respond. Glad I came here and appreciate all info. Bet you'll all be glad when I finally just get one!

Carl

 

[Richard Moakes]

FYI - The car is up for £1790. I told them I was interested but needed some assurances first. They have agreed to do the seal, check the hissing and rectify, put the air con right and guarantee any blips. They'll also give it a fresh MOT and give me the remaining tax left (till Aug - every little helps).

It's a bit expensive for an old car, but any car is worth what the next owner will pay for it ;-)

A merc specialist can do that seal easy, if they give it to a general mechanic, not sure how good a job they will do.

As for aircon, well as long as it hasn't something seriously wrong with it, then I suspect they will regass it, and before long it will leak out again.

I took it out for a longer test today and listened carefully for any unwelcome noises. Nothing at all. No creaks rattles, rumbles or whines whatsoever. Checked the steering and once again - no cracking or noises. Autobox was good. Went through the different selections a number of times and nothing sinister. On the road, I tried sport and economy. I did find that econ was a touch smoother, particularly in kickdown. Car accelerated very smoothly indeed. I wouldn't describe it as extremely rapid, but it whisked me up to 80 (whoopsy daisy) in no time. Oil pressure was 3 at all times while on the move. No steering wobbles and brakes felt very secure with no fade or judder.

Main issue with the transmission would be flaring when the box changes up, or slip when accelerating hard from a standing start.

I've told the dealer that I'll mull over it and have a couple more to look at. Its highish money I suppose for a 91 300E. If they do the bits and bobs as described, it sounds like a decent deal to me?

What does everyone else think? Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to respond. Glad I came here and appreciate all info. Bet you'll all be glad when I finally just get one!

Carl

W124's are like any decent Mercedes, they need TLC to keep them running reliably, I have two service sessions each year six months apart, during which I give the old girl a complete going over.

Whatever you decide, I hope you get a good one, I bought mine 5 years ago, and I have loved every minute of owning it.

Richard

 

[Hanz]

It looks a nice motor, but sometimes appearence can be decieving, and I did take a bit of a risk buying off ebay, theres so much rubbish floating round it's hard to get something that's not a lot of cost in the long run.

I went to see the car first, and then made an offer, it was accepted and deal done. But there's been so many I looked at before, some I just fell in love with and they'd gone.

This is my first Mercedes, and was very wary of the cheaper ones. Sometimes you get a bargain, but just being careful. Sounds like you've taken a lot of caution, which is good!

I can't fault the car at the moment. Nothings gone wrong so far apart from one thing.. *touchwood*

Seems like they're willing to do work on the car, which is a good sign, plus the MOT to keep you ticking over. Any service history with the car? That always helps when reselling the car (I know, long way off! Always plan ahead)

Hope you get the one you're looking for..

Hannah

 

[Merclad]

Thanks Hannah. Sounds like you got a great motor for a bargain. Good to hear that it hasn't caused you any grief! As with any used car - there is a certain element of luck involved. I've had a look on eBay and may look at some motors that are local. Might get lucky like yourself.

The car has full MB history up to 2000, and then its independent (the stamps seem to come from a VW/ BMW specialist) Lots of paperwork and every old MOT.

As Richard said, it is quite expensive for a car this age - and rather than dive straight in and go for the first one - I've put my sensible hat on and will scour as many as possible at the weekend. I'll keep you all posted. The trusty old Honda Concerto will do in the meantime! (now you can tell why I'm in a rush - although its actually a great little motor)

Carl

 

[pgdavy]

You mean your trusty Rover!!

 

[Merclad]

I suppose to the untrained eye you could get confused between a Concerto and a Rover PG.

Anyhow - to update you on my Merc hunting!

The 300E from the dealer has now been ruled out entirely. As per the recommendations, I've been scouring for 280s. So far my search has been fruitless. One car - described as 'faultless and immaculate' had more rust than the Titanic. Even when I pointed out one rotten patch (about the size of Kent) the guy seemed oblivious. The second 280 sold en-route to looking at it. The owner was away for the 3rd one, and yet another one had sold that day when I enquired about it! Maybe the 280 just isn't for me!

Not put off, I looked at some of the 4 cyl motors. The choice was plentiful and I found quite a few decent cars. Having read some of the posts, both the 200/220 provided more than I expected. Its quite noticeable to hear the engine working hard even when accelerating gently, but both still shifted when asked, and I wouldn't rule them out entirely.

I'll keep looking for a 6 cyl for the next couple of weeks as these are the first choice. If nothing shows up, I'll extend to the 4 cyl and perhaps a 190E 2.6 (still love the 190 but having already owned one, I'd like a change with the W124). I'll keep you posted. Has anyone got a 200/220? Are they happy with it?