W163 Headlamp improvement

[kid-jensen]

umblecumbuz,

The point I was trying to make is that the car will have an MOT with the LED H7 lightbulbs fitted, so I have a clear concience because I have taken the car to a Govertnment Tested and Approved station. Always assuming the LED bulbs turn up from China and actually fit (not a given).

If the LED replacement bulbs fail the MOT, I'll give up seeing where I'm going and return to the gloworms I have now....

 

[LostKiwi]

umblecumbuz,

The point I was trying to make is that the car will have an MOT with the LED H7 lightbulbs fitted, so I have a clear concience because I have taken the car to a Govertnment Tested and Approved station. Always assuming the LED bulbs turn up from China and actually fit (not a given).

If the LED replacement bulbs fail the MOT, I'll give up seeing where I'm going and return to the gloworms I have now....

And as I sad previously, an MOT is not a statement of legality.

Out of interest - which LED lights did you go for?

 

[kid-jensen]

The Ebay Item number is 201663439723. H7 type fitting.

I choose the copper braid heatsink option because the alternative was the aluminium finned heatsink with integral fan.. I know about the reliability of little screamer fans, so won't be having two of them anywhere near my car...

......obviously, not arrived yet.

 

[M80]

Recently I've had a few mtor bikes approaching so have kept a more central position on my side allowing plenty of room for the bike, only to find the offside lights are out on a car.

Regarding improving headlight performance, Some years ago with the dismal output of an early S203 I fitted aftermarket HID's with a view that I was being blinded by the increasing number of HID's coming at me. Maybe my eyes are over sensitive but sunglasses at night aren't an answer. Whilst legal they are invariably set to max advantage for the car with them, but to my mind too high for the comfort of those approaching. So to fight fire with fire I upgraded.

With the improvements in halogen lamps I now fit Philips Night Breaker's, dipped and main. I've owned a C320 with HID's and find the Night Breakers don't give disadvantage. T cutting a frosted lens might help output some.

To clarify the MOT steat 'predominantly white'. The HID's I fitted were 4,300k. These produce less glare but my design was to cut through our regular fog better, they did. However there was a green hue. At MOT, each year, a comment would be made but they always allowed on the principle that predominantly they were white.

I would say though that in a halogen enclosure it is difficult to set so the light scatter isn't illuminating the trees.

 

[JBell]

Was saying this just yesterday, very high frequency of cars with only one dipped beam bulb (or only one working headlamp unit), or foglights and sidelights due to no dipped beam bulbs etc. It's getting worse.

Not to mention just having DRL's on and not putting headlights on, saw 5 last night on my way home!!!

The Osram Nightbreaker is the best bulb

 

[Craiglxviii]

Daylight white is what our eyes have evolved for, pretty much this fits into the 4000-5000K bracket. The bluer (this is not related to colour temperature by the way) the tint of light the better this will cut through moisture in the air.

A simple empirical test of driving my W215 (D2S Hid low beam, H7 main beam) vs my A3 (H7 low and main)- all using Osram Nightbreaker lamps- shows that the light units on the W215 give a far better output for homogeneity, density, beam pattern, edge feathering and cutoff etc than the Audi lamps while on main beam. That's a direct comparison, same lamps (bulbs), same driver, same night, same road.

There is a lot to be said for people actually cleaning their headlamp lenses, road dirt after a couple of days can really affect light output and beam pattern. It can also really badly affect oncoming drivers due to scattering effect. Same with blown blbs, people like to try to save a tenner by leaving it until the end of the week or whatever until they can get to Halfords.

M80, I have the same problem as you, oncoming bikes almost always end up being Cyclops-cars (or worse, fecking TRACTORS).

What I have found to be of most help have been the LED full ILS lamps on my 212. THat moving "curtain" high beam is brilliant, keeps left side kerb illuminated 50 yards ahead even when traffic is oncoming with stupid blue-white HiDs bady adjusted.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

I do believe that excellent headlights (and therefore good night vision) are an important safety feature, both in the immediate instance to avoid bumping into things you can't see, and in the medium term by preventing driver fatigue.

With similar logic I had air conditioning added to the standard spec for company cars in the firm I worked for - no condensation in the car in winter, and no overcooked occupants in the summer.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Cleared windscreens are another good point, I see plenty of cars coming in from all the little local villages all with steamed-up glass. People do not leave 5 minutes to run the engine with blowers on before leaving for work nowadays.

 

[flowrider]

The H7 Nightbreaker Laser bulbs have xenon gas not halogen and the H7 Nightbreaker Unlimited are a mix of halogen and xenon, both bulbs are legal. I mention this because LostKiwi said in an earlier post that the H7 lamps had to be halogen.

 

[LostKiwi]

Daylight white is what our eyes have evolved for, pretty much this fits into the 4000-5000K bracket. The bluer (this is not related to colour temperature by the way) the tint of light the better this will cut through moisture in the air.

Blue light scatters more than other colours Craig. This is why lights are predominantly 3300K (standard Halogen)-5000K (highest ECE marked factory units). Its also why aftermarket 6000K units are so bad for oncoming drivers.

If you remember the French used to use 'selective yellow' lighting. This was to reduce dazzle and glare and was especially effective in foggy conditions.

Paul, at least you've gone some way to getting a decent beam pattern by not getting the ones that look like LEDs have been sprinkled over every surface of them!
My only observations on the ones you've chosen are:
1. Thickness - the very thick mounting of the LEDs will put them a long way from the focal point the reflector was designed for causing shadows and the possibility of poor focus and resulting scatter. Thickness of the mounting substrate is a problem for all LED replacement modules.
2. They are 6000K (see comments above)
3. They will be a pig to mount and maintain sealing on your headlight due to the large driver module external to the bulb. This may cause dirt ingress into the inside of the lens which can reduce the efficiency and cause scatter.
4. They may trigger the bulb fail circuitry.

Personally I see few issues (legality aside) with using them for high beam but that's not what you bought them for is it?

 

[LostKiwi]

The H7 Nightbreaker Laser bulbs have xenon gas not halogen and the H7 Nightbreaker Unlimited are a mix of halogen and xenon, both bulbs are legal. I mention this because LostKiwi said in an earlier post that the H7 lamps had to be halogen.

Good point - I should have said 'filament bulbs'.
The regs for the legal bulb construction are here:
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/R037r7e.pdf

 

[kid-jensen]

Lostkiwi, answering you r points within your text:-

1. Thickness - the very thick mounting of the LEDs will put them a long way from the focal point the reflector was designed for causing shadows and the possibility of poor focus and resulting scatter. Thickness of the mounting substrate is a problem for all LED replacement modules.

The thickness doesn't matter, (within reason) as long as the dimension from the mounting surface to the LED emitter is the same as in the incandescent. It would be perverse to make it any different

2. They are 6000K (see comments above)

I'll live with that, and go for matching Main beams/DRLs to keep a consistant look.

3. They will be a pig to mount and maintain sealing on your headlight due to the large driver module external to the bulb. This may cause dirt ingress into the inside of the lens which can reduce the efficiency and cause scatter.

My measurements indicate that the Heatsink Braid and the inline driver will fit within the sealed headlight unit. The heatsinking will be compromised somewhat, but compromise is what the English are good at.

4. They may trigger the bulb fail circuitry.
They state that they are Canbus Error-free. If they throw a error light, they will get them back. Better than that, as the cost of returning them to China ia more than they're worth, you usually get a refund without the need to return them.....Win-Win!

 

[Craiglxviii]

Some thoughts from the engineering design point of view.

Lostkiwi, answering you r points within your text:-

1. Thickness - the very thick mounting of the LEDs will put them a long way from the focal point the reflector was designed for causing shadows and the possibility of poor focus and resulting scatter. Thickness of the mounting substrate is a problem for all LED replacement modules.

The thickness doesn't matter, (within reason) as long as the dimension from the mounting surface to the LED emitter is the same as in the incandescent. It would be perverse to make it any different

It's more much complicated than that. LED emitters are Lambertian so the centroid of emission has to fit exactly into the same package volume as the lamp you're replacing, or the reflector module as installed just won't do its job. Basically the dimensions might be the same but the way in which the light comes from the (point source) emitters is totally different. Right now I am working on LED form factor replacements for side/ tail/ stop lamps and they are hideously complicated to meet regulations for beam pattern; headlamps are an order of magnitude or two more complex. As my old Technical Director used to say, "We can make miracles happen given 6 weeks lead time, be we cannot change the laws of physics". Can't make light bend around a tighter corner than the corner is designed for.

2. They are 6000K (see comments above)

I'll live with that, and go for matching Main beams/DRLs to keep a consistant look.6000K with the unknown blank and superimposed bright spots is going to make for a potentially dangerously dazzly look for oncoming drivers. Very serious here.

3. They will be a pig to mount and maintain sealing on your headlight due to the large driver module external to the bulb. This may cause dirt ingress into the inside of the lens which can reduce the efficiency and cause scatter.

My measurements indicate that the Heatsink Braid and the inline driver will fit within the sealed headlight unit. The heatsinking will be compromised somewhat, but compromise is what the English are good at. Compromise is not what electronics are good at however, they are not potted or sealed so moisture ingress would be a major concern for me. By the way copper is a highly suboptimal heatsink for lighting electronics and is only really required in areas of high heat soak.

4. They may trigger the bulb fail circuitry.
They state that they are Canbus Error-free. If they throw a error light, they will get them back. Better than that, as the cost of returning them to China ia more than they're worth, you usually get a refund without the need to return them.....Win-Win!

 

[kid-jensen]

Lostkiwi,

Rather than draggin this out even further, I'll reply to your points with "we'll see"...

Still watching the letter box for the delivery.

 

[LostKiwi]

Lostkiwi,

Rather than draggin this out even further, I'll reply to your points with "we'll see"...

Still watching the letter box for the delivery.

Erm... that wasn't me. That was Craig - he works in the industry.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Well he pretends to

 

[kid-jensen]

As I remember from my School Reports (all of them) "must pay more attention"....

I suspect I'll get these LED kits for free anyway, so nothing lost to try them.


Craig, as an inseder, what would you do for a cheap improvement in dipped lighting?

Do I just put some aftermarket HIDs in there and abandon listening to the radio?

 

[Craiglxviii]

As I remember from my School Reports (all of them) "must pay more attention"....

I suspect I'll get these LED kits for free anyway, so nothing lost to try them.


Craig, as an inseder, what would you do for a cheap improvement in dipped lighting?

Do I just put some aftermarket HIDs in there and abandon listening to the radio?

Osram Nightbreakers, 4000K. I have used them in all of my cars over te last 3-4 years and can completely recommend them, they consistently outperform everything else in the market. They're the dogs, seriously. Clean your lenses, you may want to cut them back, polish and deal them.

I have heard that the Nightbreaker Lasers are even better but have not tried these yet.

Ignore aftermarket anythings studiously, they're just not worth it.

 

[Dogfish]

Nightbreaker Laser bulbs.

Interesting thread.

Just ordered some Nightbreaker Laser bulbs to replace the dip beams. £26 for two on Amazon and there supposed to arrive next week along with some other "bits and bobs".

Let you know how I get on with them but you will have to remind me, brain like a sieve syndrome applies.

 

[LostKiwi]

Interesting thread.

Just ordered some Nightbreaker Laser bulbs to replace the dip beams. £26 for two on Amazon and there supposed to arrive next week along with some other "bits and bobs".

Let you know how I get on with them but you will have to remind me, brain like a sieve syndrome applies.

Just put some Lasers in my 210. The lights were OK with standard bulbs but the Lasers have given a significant improvement.
The only thing I would say with any lights is make sure the lenses are absolutely clear of any hazing or cloudiness or yellowing.
The lens should be clear and transparent.