W163 Headlamp improvement

[kid-jensen]

LEDs have arrived from China.

Had a quick look and decided I might abandon the installation and just use them as an ornament....they are a work of Art!
Beautifully made in a way the Chinese can do these days without the high price normally associated with similar cutting-edge products. I'm looking at you, Apple!

I'd planned on fitting them this weekend but the weather doesn't look promising.

Nobody said pioneering would be easy....

 

[kid-jensen]

Update to keep the Anti-Visibility League happy...

Because of the way that ML dipped headlight bulbs are fitted (small springy bayonet-style adapter plate clamps the rear of the bulb) these LED bulbs can't be used. They have large junction boxes behind the bulb mounting flange and you can't get the adapter plate over them. Sad but true. If the bulbs were secured with those irritating springy wires, that would be ok, but there's no room to access them in the ML Lamp unit, hence the bayonet arrangement.

Time to go back to the drawing board, and of course, drive-by-feel again like we did in the 60's...

That should make a few members very happy. I aim to please.

Not completely given up on being able to see where I'm going, so further research is required.

 

[Dogfish]

Night vision goggles or camera system?

Soo dislike those bulb spring clips, can never seem to get them back in properly and the bulbs flop out and illuminate the sky, doh.

 

[gruntie]

PaulG, did you look at these? Ebay no 201721807430 (or similar). They seem, outwardly at least, to avoid the problem you mention, but has anyone tried them? Do they fit and/or work? (it is implied that they do, but only in the 'full beam' position).

As an aside, this is the Nightbreaker Laser label. They admit that life is only half that of "standard", but they don't say what "standard" is.

 

[Craiglxviii]

PaulG, did you look at these? Ebay no 201721807430 (or similar). They seem, outwardly at least, to avoid the problem you mention, but has anyone tried them? Do they fit and/or work? (it is implied that they do, but only in the 'full beam' position).

As an aside, this is the Nightbreaker Laser label. They admit that life is only half that of "standard", but they don't say what "standard" is.

Standard life is 15,000 hours.

 

[kid-jensen]

so they are quoting 7500 hours life. Quite impressive for an overdriven Halogen..

My problem is the 30% improvement....It's just not enough bearing in mind the eye's logarithmic response to light intensity.

To make it worth fiddling about in these temperatures, I 'd like to see at least twice the brightness.

I'll have another look at HIDs.... who needs to listen to the radio anyway?

 

[kid-jensen]

gruntie, finally got access to ebay..

They look OK, but the problem with these bukbs is the temperature they will reach when dissipating 50W will be marginal for the LED chip limit.

The manufacturers than have to restrict the actual power to the chips (probably with a resistor) which then gives lower light output.

I notice the light figure ia 1200lm, which is about the same as a halogen bulb.....so no advantage.

Also, the light generated is spread amongst 10-off LED chips, wheras the reflector/projector they're aiming at is expecting a pseudo point-source.

The search goes on...

 

[Craiglxviii]

so they are quoting 7500 hours life. Quite impressive for an overdriven Halogen..

My problem is the 30% improvement....It's just not enough bearing in mind the eye's logarithmic response to light intensity.

To make it worth fiddling about in these temperatures, I 'd like to see at least twice the brightness.

I'll have another look at HIDs.... who needs to listen to the radio anyway?

Have you actually tried the Nightbreakers yet? I can't remember from your original post.

 

[kid-jensen]

Craig,

I'm kinda putting off the inevitable. I see the Nightbrakers and their equivalent to be a part-way solution (because of the slight improvement in brightness), but LED and HID to be the FULL solution.

As I go through this and gradually realise that plug-n-play LED replacements (as availablee currently) can't be used in the ML, I'd still like to try HIDs before I admit defeat and buy some Nightbreakers. I can see that the HID design might also include permanently-attached wiring, which means they can't be fitted. I did this conversion in my old Allroad a couple of year's back, but my addled brain won't let me remember how they were constructed.

I'm still concerned by the life of the Nightbrakers (and other makers equivalent) though.....I've seen figures as low as 200 hours quoted which I would say was unacceptable.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Craig,

I'm kinda putting off the inevitable. I see the Nightbrakers and their equivalent to be a part-way solution, but LED and HID to be the FULL solution.

As I go through this and gradually realise that plug-n-play LED replacements (as availablee currently) can't be used in the ML, I'd still like to try HIDs before I admit defeat and buy some Nightbreakers. I can see that the HID design might also include permanently-attached wiring, which means they can't be fitted. I did this cvonversion in my old Allroad a couple of year's back, but my addled brain won't let me remember how they were constructed.

I'mstill concerned by he quoted life of the overdriven Halogens though.....I've seen figures as low as 200 hours which I would say was unacceptable.

It's nowhere near 200 hours, trust me. I have run them for ooooh 2 years on one set on the X Trail, 18 months on a full set on the A3, no problems at all. On the X Trail the high beams were HiD (D2R) and the low beams halogen (H4) so the Nightbreakers got a lot of use. On the A3 both sets of lamps were H7; both cars were doing 20k a year, we live in a poorly-lit village in the sticks so the headlights were on maybe more often than might usually be the case.

I'd suggest you try it as a "halfway house" before going the whole hog with a different lighting engine. Put simply, they are the correct lamp for your fixture, they are the form factor your reflectors are designed around and thus will work properly with it. And they're much superior to the OEM candles you're used to.

For £15-18 a pair they're much more affordable to "give them a try" than moving to HiD conversion too... if you try them and decide no good, you're a purple note out of pocket. But if you try the HiD and realize that they don't work (and believe me on this, they won't provide a safe beam pattern...) you'll be two red notes out of pocket...

 

[M80]

How bright do headlamps need to be?

If rally driving, high speed style, on rural roads I can see the need for super bright. But as you're driving an ML it seems more likely your speeds are going to be more economy considerate.

I fitted the Osram Nightbreakers +110%, over 2 years ago, in the Vito, both low and high beam. They are more than bright enough. I could drive alot faster than I wish to and still see enough to be safe.
It seems mine are low powered compared to the halogen lamps available today.

 

[Craiglxviii]

The sweet spot is around 2000-3000 lumen.

 

[gruntie]

How bright do headlamps need to be?

They simply need to be as bright as everyone else's: it's nothing to do with speed.

I live in a rural area: as time goes by, I am faced with more and more oncoming LED headlights. Although maybe not directly dazzled, the brightness of them means that I am aiming just to the left of them and hoping there's nothing in the way because I simply can't see. Or, stop. Hardly an ideal situation. (The M-Class is not alone in this: I have driven behind halogen projectors before, on different vehicles, they were pants in all cases.)

Maybe not an issue in a streetlit urban environment: but out here with a high traffic density, narrow unlit roads that are not necessarily of a constant width, no kerb markings (no kerbs), undulating surface so self-levelling systems are useless, it's becoming almost dangerous.

 

[M80]

They simply need to be as bright as everyone else's: it's nothing to do with speed.

I live in a rural area: as time goes by, I am faced with more and more oncoming LED headlights.

undulating surface so self-levelling systems are useless, it's becoming almost dangerous.

I couldn't agree more. On t'other thread there is suggestion that the DRL legislation need amending, in my view the HID's are more dangerous as said.
Especially when the angle of the oncoming car means their dipped HID's are aimed straight at my eyes, over a rise for example. Sometimes I go to full beam to gain more vision for myself, but then if they show their full beam double whack!.

I have concluded I can't beat the buggers, they are legal and happy behind these powerfull beams. I would have thought by now though that even with HID's many would be angered by HID's coming at them.

I drive mainly on unlit rural roads and my lights do well enough. HID's would serve no advantage. My point about speed is the faster you go the further ahead you need to see, and my lights are more than capable.
Even if I had HID's to combat the oncoming HID's, as I had in the C320 there would be no advantage as I would still be blinded.

 

[kid-jensen]

M80, if you had driven my ML, you would certainly agree, they are just not bright enough, bordering on dangerous at any speed other than walking.

The lenses are well poilshed and clean, and I have replaced the H7 bulbs, but NO improvement.

I may begridgingly accept that overdriven Halogens are maybe the way to go, bearing in mind there may be no alternative available in HID that can actually fit...

Time to spend-out and shut up, I guess.

I really hope that extra 30% is noticeable....

Craig, how do you flash people if your Main Beams are HID?

 

[Craiglxviii]

M80, if you had driven my ML, you would certainly agree, they are just not bright enough, bordering on dangerous at any speed other than walking.

The lenses are well poilshed and clean, and I have replaced the H7 bulbs, but NO improvement.

I may begridgingly accept that overdriven Halogens are maybe the way to go, bearing in mind there may be no alternative available in HID that can actually fit...

Time to spend-out and shut up, I guess.

I really hope that extra 30% is noticeable....

Craig, how do you flash people if your Main Beams are HID?

On which car? Right now...

the 212 is full LED;
the 211 is bi-Xenon;
the 215 is Xenon low beam, H7 high beam .

On all cars I pull the left hand column stalk back a couple of times, usually followed by leaning my right hand on the centre of the wheel and mouthing "YOU C....."

 

[kid-jensen]

Didn't you say "On the X Trail the high beams were HiD "?

So....how do you flash someone with HID main Beams? surely by the time they have fired-up (10 seconds or more) the "flashing situation" has resolved itself?

 

[Craiglxviii]

Didn't you say "On the X Trail the high beams were HiD "?

So....how do you flash someone with HID main Beams? surely by the time they have fired-up (10 seconds or more) the "flashing situation" has resolved itself?

Ah sorry, misunderstood, I sold it 3mth ago now. Yes that is correct (lamp layout), and no they took a fraction of a second to fire up. Manual leveler so no auto up/down adjustment. Same as my 211 and 215, turn the lamp switch to "on" in daylight and the lamps come on immediately, no difference to halogen.

 

[Christian]

On my w164 2008 I have H7 Mtec Laser 5000k for more than 1 year. Much brighter than Nightbreakers. I liked Osram Hyper Blue+ too but apparently for off road only.
Osrams MUCH better than Philips ! Fact. Night breakers are perfect with small mirror headlights. I didn't like them on my w164.
Never had HIDs and never will. I do drive a fair bit in Europe and really do not want any fines.
Think these new Osram Laser won;t be any better than previous model. Night breakers Unltd Gold Edition are supposed to be the best *marketing?*

 

[Craiglxviii]

Osram's Nightbreaker Unlimited, Gold and Laser in H7 all have the same minimum luminous flux, 2000lm. However the flux DENSITY increases as one moves towards the Laser, that is the homogeonity of the light improves.