We ought to change the car ?

[derekmiles]

No cringing now...we have a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow 1980 (one of the last to be produced).
My wife Joan and I are now 75 and 76 respectively and for the obvious reasons of age we feel that we ought to part with the car in favour of an MB.
Why you may say, well the car attracts too much attention and every time you look at someone, everyone's looking at you, everyone thinks you're someone we really 'aint. We've had the car for years and we're looking to change it for a Mercedes, we want a smaller car that won't stand out in a crowd, we'd like it to be a diesel, we'd like it to be something of a 'classic' and we'd like the condition to be something like the R-R we have. Needless to say, the R-R is pristine both mech and body with a most detailed service history- colour ? Onyx but generally refered to as Golden Onyx.

We know so little about Mecedes Benz but now starting to learn by joining the MB club.

Our other vehicles are a Landrover to pull a biggish caravan since we love touring the UK, and we have an old and trusty 2.5 TD Granada Scorpio for about town use.

Any advice you can offer would be more than appreciated and our kindest regards from Derek and Joan Miles in Leamington Spa.

 

[squealinneil]

Hi Derek,

Are you looking for a similar sized replacement or something a bit smaller?

The general feeling ( & certainly mine) is that after about '92 - '93 MB lost their way a bit. Many MB fans feel the W201 (190E), W124 (E class - 300E for e.g.) & W126 (S class - e.g 500SEL) cars were the last proper cars they built.

Later models suffer from some very serious rust & build quality problems, electronic glitches etc. They are, IMO, overly complicated, not as well engineered and not built to last. They are built to a price rather than a standard. If you look you'll still see 100s of 190Es, loads of 124s & many 126s on the road. They are still around because they were brilliantly engineered, over engineered in fact, well screwed together and because their owners like them.

Time warp, low mileage, low number of owners, always loved, rust free, full service history examples of all these cars do exist, though they are increasingly rare. I'd say, for such a 190E you would pay up to £4K, up to £7-8K for a 124 & up to £10-12K for a 126. These would be the very best, mint condition examples which you could confidently expect to last another 10 years with regular servicing.

A benefit of buying a 201, 124 or 126 is that you do not need to use a dealership for servicing. There are many very good independent MB specialists who usually charge around £40-45 per hour, which is at least half what the dealer rates are. The independents also know a good deal more about the older models as they work on them regularly and were probably trained on them back in the day.

One of the best places to look for such cars is in the Gazette, the monthly magazine of the Mercedes-Benz Owners' Club

http://www.******************.co.uk/?dl=members/members.asp

 

[jberks]

Hi,
everyone will have a different view, but personally I view the last C class Merc as a classic. It was the last of the old school mercs which I suspect is what you are looking for. Well built and if looked after will go forever. They were produced from around 94 to 2000. In diesels you are going to struggle more to find a good condition one now, primarily as most will have galactic mileages but you may be lucky. I'd say that a 1999 C220cdi is a best buy if you can find one without moon dust on the tyres. You may be better with a C200 petrol however which is still reasonably economical (especially after the RR!) but there should be enough around with sensible mileages that have been loved. They came in 3 trims but I suggest that after a RR, the Elegance spec is the one you'd want.
The alternative is a W124, or the E class that preceded the 'bug eyed' one (W210). They were built from 1986 to around 1994 Again there are some pristine examples around and were even better built than the C. A little larger than the C though not by much, and whilst loved by owners, in my view most of the diesels are really only viable if you do big mileages as they cruise well but aren't that lively away from the line - but it depends on what you want.
The bug eyed E class if you like it (1995-2002) is a bit bigger, but whilst I loved mine, I must admit it wasn't entirely trouble free and they do have corrosion problems so may not be the best bet. They were built during the 'accountant' years and some of the cost cutting is beginning to show.
If you have the budget, I think the current E class is a future classic. Certainly from the looks stakes. However, still not as well built as the W124 (nothing ever will be again) and early ones (02/03) had some reliability issues, though most will have been fixed by now so are probably ok. Diesels are good on this model and there are plenty of used CDIs about but it depends on what you want to spend.
cheers,
JB
The S classes are a bit big and I presume you are looking to downsize from the Rolls.
I would suggest you find yourself a good local MB specialist. Avoid the dealers as they are pretty poor in all respects I'm afraid.

 

[television]

Double glazing

Could try the 600, nice car to drive and think "you could enjoy the comforts of double glazing in you own car" My oldest friend bought one new, must have been around 92 he paid £100.000 for it new and 6 months later he got £45.000 in PX for an SL.
Malcolm

 

[SLinKyjoe]

what a question!

if you wish to have a classic in the terms that classic means old...keep what you have. enjoy them looking at you. only sad people will be thinking you are showing off or other unpleasent thoughts. In fact, if i saw a mature couple in a RR of that vintage, i would think the world of them.

The S class that has been mentioned is hideous to look at and just as large as the RR you have. but i think people may well look at you and not think nice things in one of them. (And the memories of Diana!!)

if you wish to off load the RR but want something classic, i would suggest you look at a Bristol, www.bristolcars.co.uk will look out for one for you, very rare, nicley built, very understated and they do an LPG conversion. make them cheaper to run about and nicer to drive than a diesel.

if you insist on MB then e class mentioned above and the first reply had the best advice. but go find an independent dealer near you who specialised in these cars. MBOA also have cars for sale in their monthly mag, but i cant vouch for the sellers!

But my view, and this is as a mercedes owner, keep the roller if not for any other reason than to say you have one and enjoy them looking at you. they are admiring.


(i refuse the mention the well built and totaly invisible Lexus!)

 

[Bolide]

Rolls Royce alternative

Derek & Joan


Interesting request! If you've had the Rolls for a few years then you will, no doubt, appreciate quietness, smoothness and comfort as useful qualities in a car. These aren't everyone's main criteria but I value them highly

Are you looking to replace the Scorpio and the Land Rover too? If you are then a second-hand diesel W211 (current model) E Class estate is what I'd recommend, definitely an E320 CDi or a E270 CDi diesel, in a nice low-key blue or similar inoffensive colour. The new E Class looks smaller than its predecessor but it's powerful, smooth and will tow well

If you want something less high-tech, with very little electronics and built like a tank, then buy a W124 estate. Yes, it's true, I would say that because I'm hopelessly biased, but there are lots of reasons. They're beautifully built, reliable, cheap to run and they are completely invisible. They're so low-key they just merge into the background

The only W124 diesel to have is the late (1994-1996) E300 Diesel with the multivalve engine. It's slow and relatively uneconomical by modern standards (33 mpg) as it has no turbo but it's smooth and great to drive. W124s also have self-levelling rear suspension that works brilliantly. They're comfortable but can carry & tow large loads without the ride & handling deteriorating

I think a W124 estate might render the Scorpio redundant but the Land Rover would always win when doing serious towing

If a W124 is too big (it's a long car but it has a very tight steering lock) then a C Class estate might suit. I find them a little restricted inside after an E Class but there's a turbo version, the C250 turbodiesel, and they're very low key as well

There's another E Class, the round headlight W210 (estate, 1996-2002?), built between the W124 and the W211. It has a known rust problem and the good diesel engines didn't appear till later in its life so I'd miss it out and go early (W124 estate, rectangular headlights, 1985-1996) or late (W211, oval headlights, 2002?-on)

I think you need to test drive as many cars as you can and, if possible, do some long trips in a prospective vehicle. If you like touring then you need something you can live with everyday and that's something Mercedes were traditionally good at


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[television]

Back in the 80,s I was the Deputy technical secretary for the Rolls Royce enthusiast Club (RREC) and if any of you guys pull a face at the cost parts/service you havent lived. The part of your body that will hurt the most is your wrist, writing out the cheques. One man I know, put his car in for service, the cost was £3.500 He drove out and failed the MOT the same day.
But another £2500 and it passed, and that was back then. And you guys out there with rusty Mercs have seen nothing compaired to a coach built car. You don't get so much rust though,as it all drops off in lumps.

On a recent survey, Most peoples dream car is the car that was out when they were between 5-15 years old. I wish Derek and Joan well in finding the right Merc. The up market Mercedes have the same special feel as do Rolls Royce and are easier to park without getting vandalized.:smile:

Malcolm

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

I can't think of anything better than the S Class to suit your purpose. I don't know whether its likely to be become a future classic, I dought that any of the current generation of mass produced MB cars will earn that mantle, too complicated and not well enough built nowadays. However they still retain a certain amount of that specialness all MB enthusiasts crave.

The present S Class has been in production long enough for there to be a plentiful supply of used examples and engine options. It shouldn't be too hard to find the right car, because of the high initial cost they are all well equipped with leather etc. A grey, or silver paint finish would blend you into the scenery quite nicely and I'm sure that you won't miss the RR that much as the interior is excellent.

 

[derekmiles]

Been away so very sorry not to have thanked you all for your detailed advice.
We are keeping the old Scorpio because it's good for a 'spare' car and it happens to be one of those with everything on it, in fact it was their most expensive models when new.
Regarding the LandRover, we only tax that for the carravanning period April to September and obviously we will be keeping that too.

So it's the R-R that has to go and of course it has to be a part exchange affair with cash either way. Indeed we would prefer a smaller family type car
with a high standard of appoinment and comfort.

The information your have given is invaluable and it looks as though we have to do some 'footwork'. If you feel that can comment even more then this would be appreciated. My kindest regards to all.

 

[squealinneil]

Derek,

You would be in a much stronger buying position if you sold your Shadow II rather than traded it in. Cash is king, and you'll probably be insulted by the offers you receive from MB dealers. Very, very few private individuals will consider taking your car as part of a deal.

Excellent examples of these cars are quite rare. The costs of running, servicing etc are high in comparison to the cars rarity & value, so nearly all have fallen into the neglected category. It probably costs as much to maintain a standard steel Shadow as a coach built R Type Continental, even tough the R Type might be 15-30 times as valuable.

You're cutting it fine for inclusion into the Christmas auction season, but it might be worth a call to Bonhams or Christie's, whose on line catalogue looks pretty thin this year. H & H are also good. Baron's hold regular sales at Sandown Park which include a high proportion of modern classics. I wouldn't go near Coys.

Alternatively, an independent RR specialist such as Frank Dale might take it on consignment.

Good luck!

 

[Bolide]

Auctions

Agree 100% with Squealinneil regarding selling the car

I'd have it valeted (by proper valeters, not the tyre black & silicone spray boys) before consigning it to auction and I'd make sure the history was neatly filed, chronologically, in a nice book or A4 ring binder

If it's original, in a good colour and it presents itself well you'll get a very honest result from a classic auction


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk