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What are 'normal' deposits in a 722.6 trans pan?

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by chizzel89, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. chizzel89

    chizzel89 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    Mercedes-Benz C250 Turbodiesel Sport Auto. Estate. 1998. 180,000 mls
    Just drained mine and took the pan off. The fluid was dark red and not really dirty.
    There is definitely some fine metal particles in the pan, a very thin layer on the bottom. The vast majority seem to be ferrous and clutch material and a few are golden. There were 5 or 6 larger flecks, way smaller than a grain of sand. It doesn't look to me like anything is failing spectacularly. The fluid has been in there about 35k miles.
    Anyone know what is normal?

    I did read in a few places that some fine deposits in there are normal wear and tear...
     
  2. television

    television Always remembered RIP

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    That all sound just fine to me, and as you say quite normal,,just think if its been 50k miles and never been changed, there must be something in there :D
     
  3. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Senior Member

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    Fit a magnet on the outside of the pan near the drain plug. It will collect any future debris from circulating with your new oil that you paid a fortune for.
     
  4. television

    television Always remembered RIP

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    They do have a magnet in the pan, but bronze particles are not attracted to it
     
  5. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Senior Member

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    Silly me about bronze and the magnetism, My 203 did not have a magnet inside, but I stuck one on as an after thought when I changed my ATF.

    I am tempted to do another ATF change after 60K since last change, should I?............... Money for the oil is the factor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  6. S.Speed

    S.Speed Senior Member

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    Yes you should.
    Every 40k miles will keel the time transmission happy.
     
  7. television

    television Always remembered RIP

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    As Simon and a good figure to work to :D
     
  8. OP
    chizzel89

    chizzel89 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    Mercedes-Benz C250 Turbodiesel Sport Auto. Estate. 1998. 180,000 mls
    I didn't pay a fortune for it ;)
    It is Comma MV ATF Semi Synthetic- meets MB 236.12 (box was originally filled with 236.10, so it is over spec) and costs £26.90 for 5 litres inc P&P off ebay. In the Comma book, it recommends this stuff for my car.
    I think the reason it is cheaper than other brands is that Comma are actually owned by Exxon, so they get all the proper base oils and additives at promotional prices. They have a quality guarantee etc, so I shouldn't be taking any risk with my transmission using their oil.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110881813077?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

    Got the filter and pan seal from ECP with the 25% discount code.
    If the box is still alive in another 25k I will do the same again, but maybe try the Valvoline Maxlife ATF as it is specifically mentioned in MB training manuals (and has a load of hype that it is designed for clapt out gearboxes) and is again nice and cheap from ECP with the 25% discount.
     
  9. OP
    chizzel89

    chizzel89 Senior Member

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    I don't think mine does. I tested the drain plugs with a bit of steel and other bits of the pan- no magnetism.

    I will break off the end of one of those pound shop pick up tools and stick that on there near the drain plug.

    However, all the oil which is pumped around the trans is first filtered, so debris shouldnt be able to get into places where it can do damage. The stuff in the sump pan is heavey enough to just stay there i would think.
     
  10. television

    television Always remembered RIP

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    50 is the magnet that fits in the sump pan, it should be there and it was standard

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Alex Crow

    Alex Crow Senior Member

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    If the magnet is missing, someone left it out after cleaning the sump last time!

    As above, if smaller than a grain of sand, and not too much bronze, depositis sound OK.

    I would not think a semi-synthetic ATF could meet the MB236.12 spec? All approved ATFs fot this are synthetic.
     
  12. paul hayward

    paul hayward Senior Member

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    all MB sold..V70R now ;-)
    i would hate to think how many miles the 211 gearbox oil has done since its last change:shock:..no way of really knowing the answer to that one:shock:..but its not much longer till it will be new :cool:


    in fact ...im not so sure i actually want to be there to see what comes out..........
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  13. television

    television Always remembered RIP

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    By dipping you may be able to see the condition of the fluid
     
  14. OP
    chizzel89

    chizzel89 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    Hmm... I now have cold feet about having used this budget ATF.

    The problem I had was that the trans isn't the smoothest or quietest 722.6 I've come across so I didn't want to fork out £70 on fluid when it might die in the near future. That said it has been like this a long time and so far has just kept going. The transmission in my donor car which is two years older and has similar mileage (175k miles) but has the same 722.612 trans is smoother, more positive and also quieter.

    "Further to Commission Regulation (EC) No: 1400/2002 ("Regulation"), Comma as a producer of Original Equipment (OE) specified products, is obliged to produce products, in accordance with OE specification.

    Comma has registered with the Association of the Constructors of European Automobiles (ACEA) through the European Engine Lubricants Quality Management System (EELQMS) as a producer of Original Equipment specified products and therefore Comma products may be used during routine servicing without affecting the vehicle manufacturer’s warranty."

    http://www.commaoil.com/products/productguarantee

    They also have an extensive guarantee that their oils will meet the specs they claim it meets.

    Oh well... if it breaks I'll just have to fit the nicer transmission from the donor car.
     
  15. tode

    tode Senior Member

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    The specification sheet for the oil you've been using doesn't say that it meets the MB requirements, so I would imagine that they haven't had it tested. And if it's not been tested, it's difficult to see how they know that it does meet those requirements.

    I have always kept our Mercedes a long time (only just sold our C250 turbo), and have always used the correct oils, right up to the end. I reasoned that an old Mercedes is still a very nice car, costs nothing in depreciation, and deserves a little TLC.

    And now that I also have a certain age, I would like to think that I get first class medical care, and not just cheap substitutes because I'm (cough cough) years old. ;)
     
  16. spock500

    spock500 Senior Member

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    It might be worth doing an overhaul on your spare while it's not in use.

    You can buy valve body kits which replace the most worn and often used parts of the transmission.

    If you go down this route swap the valve bodies around, i.e first to fifth gear. This way the lesser used components replace the more worn and frequently used parts.
     
  17. cleverdicky

    cleverdicky Senior Member

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    I panicked when I did my oil and dropped the pan. Was following the write up that Cole did and there was no mention of it.
    When I found it i was convinced it was a part or something that needed to be fitted somewhere and had dropped down, as it was so well made and looked like a grill of something ???
    Whats wrong with making a magnet that looks like a magnet :rolleyes:
     
  18. television

    television Always remembered RIP

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    Ceramic magnets hold their power for ever,,,where as the horse shoe type may bring you better luck
     
  19. OP
    chizzel89

    chizzel89 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    They are nice cars, and it is the best car I've ever owned. I thought if it claims to meet 236.12 which is the 7 speed spec, then it must surely be ok for a 236.10 5 speed application.
    I have emailed Comma anyway and will see what they say.

    The reason I ended up using this ATF is that the Multi-plug leaked spectacularly, I discovered the fluid was off the end of the dipstick (MB fluid had been used at the last change) but I needed to use the car so I had the local motor factors send out a tub of this MV ATF which the Comma book in the local car garage indicated was the correct fluid.
    So after topping up the initial loss, and then topping up the second loss when I fitted a new plug I still had a load of this MV ATF left over.
    So, with the box being a bit noisier than it should be, I thought that I'd put in this MV ATF for 20k miles as I already had half the amount needed and if it was still going after that I'd put in something like Valvoline Maxlife which while not MB approved is mentioned on MB training documents.

    Like Commas MV ATF though, Maxlife is not fully synthetic. It is a synthetic blend, which is basically semi synthetic. Though the maxlife claims to have a special additive package.
     
  20. tode

    tode Senior Member

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    To be honest, Comma don't claim to meet the MB spec, they simply say

    "Comma recommends this product for applications requiring:

    Dexron® II and III, Ford Mercon V, MOPAR ATF +3 and +4, VW G 052 162, MB 236.6/7/10/12 "

    Which isn't at all the same thing . . . ;)
     

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