Why are MB so sh*t at servicing?

[Ashley H]

In one sense, of course, this forum will always be weighted towards problems - when things work correctly, we generally don't notice. There is no doubt, however, that there's an unacceptably high level of dissatisfaction with the back-up (as a general term for servicing, repairs, parts, etc.) provided by MB dealers & authorised garages. Unaccceptable even for cheap cars - ludicrous for the much-vaunted (especially by themselves) MB.

That's all very well, and I believe we all recognise the problem, but what's the REAL cause? Here's my two penny worth...

The MB range has grown exponentially over the past 10 years. We used to have - broadly - small (C), medium (E) and large (S) + sporty variants/convertibles. There are now more different model than you can shake a stick at and the consequent demand for mechanical skills has completely outstripped the possible supply - result? Fitters who can plug-in a computer but can't diagnose a common cold.

This has been compounded by a) ever increasing complexity of the cars and b) a shift in power from engineers to accountants resulting in a greater toleration by MB of "fit for purpose" rather than "top quality" components.

Any other thoughts?

I have to say, by the way, that I don't think I will replace my E320 with another Merc - I think it will probably be a "boring" Lexus LS. After all the niggling faults I've had - and cr*p service - I could look forward to living with boring...

 

[carlsson20]

I made the jump to Lexus after a few years with a clk and c32 for all the reasons you say. In my nearly four years of ownership I have never had one fault/malfunction or breakdown other than a blown rear brakelight bulb. A relative bought my first GS 300 in 4 years its only needed a new battery.

I have just had my GS 430 serviced, car collected at 9am I was left a brand new Lexus with 230 miles on the clock and full tank of fuel, full 70k service new front discs and pads, new rear pads, wiper blades, full valet £653 car returned at 4.30pm, that will be that until next September, boring, a bit, the 4.3 V8 can fair move along, a lot smoother than any Mercedes I've ever been in.

Im selling this to take on my sons 500SL I must be nuts, you want a reliable car its on ebay

 

[psmart]

Having watched the share value of Daimler plummit from EUR78 to EUR25 per share and falling, and given that bank funding has become very tight (ie. lease, pcp, hp, bank-loan), it will be interesting to see in what state Mercedes emerges given that its targetted a lot of cars at the middle-class sector, who will no longer have liquidity to buy new Mercs or pay their ludicrous servicing costs! The rich will always have petty cash for a new AMG, but private and fleet buyers may not now.

After spending over 1000 miles in a new B180cdi CVT, I could see no reason to believe that Mercedes of today are any different to the Mercedes of 2000, 2002 and 2004 and so we used our feet and bought a brand new Toyota Prius, a tad boring, but reliability, mpg, servicing price, warranty, manufacturer reputation outweighed Mercedes loyalty, and besides, the B-Class was crap!

Having dealt with one of the dealers here in Stuttgart, who are Daimler AG not a franchise, your comments equally apply. For example, when my gearbox blew up they held the car for two days without calling (inspite of the front desk saying they would investigate fault and call back), after I called them, they said I need to authorise EUR300 to investigate, so I did, they called back 1 hour later saying they had spent 2 hours on it, couldnt find a fault (albeit the box was kaput) so I would need to authorise a further EUR1500! They recommended I spend EUR8000 + VAT for a new box. They further compounded there **** taking by saying it would cost EUR1000 to replace the gearbox heat exchanger and they hadnt even at that point performed a glycol test! Perhaps the rich like throwing away 1000's to **** take dealerships, but these current times will surely send some of them to bankruptcy with these policies!

I think we will find this and other forums become much busier as people seek to solve or fix problems on there own now!

 

[Rory]

You ought to get cars with ServicePlus. In 4yrs mine has needed the most minimal of servicing. I guess (hope) that if anything actually stopped working then they would fix it, but their solution to things which don't seem quite right (handling, steering, sat nav etc) is to simply deny that there's a problem.

I'm seriously thinking of Lexus too - neighbour of mine had just switched from many years of MB ownership and has a GS300. Very nice.

 

[television]

While in a MB dealer today a customer was complaining about the small mileage he had done and the service was due.

The guy told him that they have had to change their servicing rules as they were finding so many faults making the cars unsafe when the cars were just standing in the garage,, makes you think does it not

 

[rf065]

Prior to buying the CLK, I've had 5 japanese cars in the last 16 years. Not once did any of them break down. A major service including brakes etc, would usually still come in at under £300, normal servicing around £100.

The first year in the CLK was great, until the first B service, £468 and that's with me supplying my own oil and no other work required.

I'm now onto my 4th warranty claim since May and have spent 4 weeks in total in a courtesy car. I love the car, but maybe I'll need a second japanese car that I can rely on if I want to keep the Merc.

Russ

 

[hawk20]

Well here is what the J D Power survey says of the Lexus: -
"The Lexus IS is second in class and third overall.

Owners reported very good interior build quality, loved the way the car drives and looks, and rated Lexus dealers as among the best.

There are chinks in its armour, though. Mechanical reliability was only average; a number of owners reported engine faults. Running costs were so-so, with relatively steep fuel bills."

 

[Ashley H]

But why are they having these problems?

About ten years a go I bought an already decrepit, '86 250 TD with 360,000 km on the clock from Holland - I think it was an ex-taxi, it had certainly had a hard life! I ran it for five years and a further 150,000 km with little or no trouble, despite terrible rust and a gently disintegrating interior.

Yet my '02 E320 CDi, bought at just 86,000 miles, has cost me £4,707 in 13 months (33,000 miles) for servicing / maintenance / repairs (mainly at a highly recommended independent, not even a stealer) and the climate control, which hasn't worked since soon after I bought the damn thing, still doesn't...

it's back to, in my view:

1. The cars have grown in complexity faster than MBs ability to manufacture that complexity
2. Service departments have fitters not mechanics
and, most worrying:
3. MB simply don't care. The bean-counters have taken over and the engineers have been cowed into producing inferior cars - a situation exacerbated by their corporate culture of arrogance & superiority

I had an Audi A4 2.0 diesel turbo earlier this week as a hire car and although it was rather dull inside, the quality of the interior (and the rest of the car) was very impressive.

 

[Ashley H]

PS to prevuous post

This is where the money was spent...

14-Sep-07 R Air con service 140.12 GBP
30-Oct-07 M Rear tyres 296.15 GBP
07-Dec-07 M "B" Service at Glen Hend 628.43 GBP
13-Dec-07 R Tyre repair 18.96 GBP
31-Jan-08 R Diagnostics at MB Tech 52.87 GBP
27-Feb-08 R Air con / glow-plugs etc 657.41 GBP
01-Apr-08 R Rear tyres 257.40 GBP
22-Apr-08 R Front tyres 268.00 GBP
26-Apr-08 R Wheel alignment 22.50 GBP
22-May-08 M B Service & suspension 1,269.00 GBP
12-Jun-08 M Steering column 1,001.19 GBP
13-Aug-08 M MoT 90.35 GBP

 

[hawk20]

While in a MB dealer today a customer was complaining about the small mileage he had done and the service was due.

The guy told him that they have had to change their servicing rules as they were finding so many faults making the cars unsafe when the cars were just standing in the garage,, makes you think does it not

Which just shows you shouldn't ask a mechanic questions about major MB company policy.

Only in Britain have MB given up the ASSYST variable services in response to business buyers wanting fixed intervals. Personally I hope they change back to variable servicing.

Anyone who thinks that japanese cars are somehow immune from any problems should go to the What Car site and look at the JD Power survey.

The E class finishes 8th overall and second executive car in a near tie with the Jag and loads of japanese cars are way down the heap in all categories.

If you look at a simple mechanical seat adjustment system like a Skoda has (and MB had in the '80's) it will probably never go wrong. Now look at the electrical memory seats on my E class. Motors move the seat up and down; fore and aft, recline and unrecline, raise and lower the headrest, tilt and untilt the squab. In addition electic motors move the steering wheel in and out and up and down and set the mirrors in my chosen position and all my choices are then fed into a microchip as are my wife's choices ready to be activated at the touch of a button.

Which is more likely to go wrong? The simple cheap car with very few fancy bits or the luxury car with electric and electronic goodies wall to wall. We have ourselves to blame for choosing the bits that we know are a bit of a risk long term. We choose because we want them even with the somewhat higher risk.

According to a recent survey the Porsche is the most unreliable car you can buy.

 

[television]

Which just shows you shouldn't ask a mechanic questions about major MB company policy.

Only in Britain have MB given up the ASSYST variable services in response to business buyers wanting fixed intervals. Personally I hope they change back to variable servicing.



.

This was the man on the service desk Hawk who said that.

Thank you again for this invaluable source of info

 

[psmart]

Anyone who thinks that japanese cars are somehow immune from any problems should go to the What Car site and look at the JD Power survey.

Which is more likely to go wrong? The simple cheap car with very few fancy bits or the luxury car with electric and electronic goodies wall to wall. We have ourselves to blame for choosing the bits that we know are a bit of a risk long term. We choose because we want them even with the somewhat higher risk.

"The Toyota Prius tops this year's JD Power and Associates/What Car? 2008 UK Car Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) study.

The Prius scored 901 points out of a possible 1000, with owners reporting particularly high satisfaction levels with the model's quality and reliability.

'The Prius already has iconic status because of its green credentials; now it's demonstrating that it's also the watchword for reliability and satisfaction,' said Steve Fowler, editor of What Car?

'It delivers on many of the points that matter most to car buyers today: it's environmentally friendly and reasonably frugal, yet it's also reliable and a great car to own.'

Lexus topped the nameplate rankings for the eighth consecutive year, scoring a customer satisfaction score of 866. In particular, it excelled in three of the four key measures: quality/reliability, service satisfaction and vehicle appeal."

Toyota Prius is top of J D Power Survey 2008, Lexus score very highly. The best recommendation though, in my opinion, is a satisfied owner, not a commercial venture! Ive just bought a Toyota Prius T-Spirit with leather and all options after personal recommendation and trial, way way more complex than an E-Class, YET IT DOESNT GO WRONG! After trialling the B180cdi CVT, no comparison, just marginally better than my outgoing A140.

 

[Micman]

"Ive just bought a Toyota Prius T-Spirit with leather and all options after personal recommendation and trial, way way more complex than an E-Class, YET IT DOESNT GO WRONG! After trialling the B180cdi CVT, no comparison, just marginally better than my outgoing A140.

I find that very interesting as I too am very very seriously considering buying a Prius Spirit to replace my C-class. As you say it is a highly complex car with every bit of kit you want on it and RELIABLE!

 

[Ashley H]

Which is more likely to go wrong? The simple cheap car with very few fancy bits or the luxury car with electric and electronic goodies wall to wall. We have ourselves to blame for choosing the bits that we know are a bit of a risk long term. We choose because we want them even with the somewhat higher risk.

Hawk is, of course, absolutely right but it's not the whole story - reliability of the more complex car is also affected by the relative quality of the components & the standard of manufacturing.

The simple, cheap car won't be more reliable if it uses flimsy parts and is shoddily made. The MB problem, in my view, is that we are getting the worst of both worlds - cheaply specified, poorly assembled complexity!

 

[jberks]

This is where the money was spent...

14-Sep-07 R Air con service 140.12 GBP
30-Oct-07 M Rear tyres 296.15 GBP
07-Dec-07 M "B" Service at Glen Hend 628.43 GBP
13-Dec-07 R Tyre repair 18.96 GBP
31-Jan-08 R Diagnostics at MB Tech 52.87 GBP
27-Feb-08 R Air con / glow-plugs etc 657.41 GBP
01-Apr-08 R Rear tyres 257.40 GBP
22-Apr-08 R Front tyres 268.00 GBP
26-Apr-08 R Wheel alignment 22.50 GBP
22-May-08 M B Service & suspension 1,269.00 GBP
12-Jun-08 M Steering column 1,001.19 GBP
13-Aug-08 M MoT 90.35 GBP

When you say how much you spent, I was surprised. I've run a 2000 and 2004 E and never come close to spending that amount, but looking at your figures, aside from the steering column which is unfortunate, everything else is perfectly normal and acceptable on a car of that age. Glow plugs, tyres, alignment and servicing are all consumables after all.
Ok, you're paying well over the odds for tyres and if £628 was for a B at an indie I'd find yourself another indie (ouch) but there isn't really anything there that would have me complaining about unreliability.
Yes if you want 'reliable' go Japanese - but as always you pay the price in that undefinable factor - character. I've sat in Lexuses and I agree they make a lot of sense, but as has been said to me by many people (most not owners), a merc is a nice place to be, sorry but Lexus/Toyota etc simply haven't managed to replicate that. I just pulled a crisis 24 hour shift to get a client running again and after 2 hours sleep had to drive 150 miles back home. I fully expected to have to pull over at some point and have a nap and would have done in other cars I'm sure. But the silence, low down power and simple lack of hassle you get from other road users when you're driving a merc all meant that the miles simple rolled by effortlessley and I was as 'refreshed' when I climbed out at home as I had been when I set off. I simply don't think another car, whatever the make (ok - maybe a Bentley), at 4 years and 60k old could have done that for me.

 

[neilcharlton]

I love the look of the MB's but arrogant dealers , rubbish build qualitiy and endless problems just isnt worth it . Think i'll switch to BMW next time round.

 

[Blobcat]

After spending over 1000 miles in a new B180cdi CVT, I could see no reason to believe that Mercedes of today are any different to the Mercedes of 2000, 2002 and 2004 and so we used our feet and bought a brand new Toyota Prius, a tad boring, but reliability, mpg, servicing price, warranty, manufacturer reputation outweighed Mercedes loyalty, and besides, the B-Class was crap!

Whilst I have no issue with killing Panda's the smug cloud from your Environment Killer will block out half of Europe (I'm still looking for a down side)

 

[jberks]

I love the look of the MB's but arrogant dealers , rubbish build qualitiy and endless problems just isnt worth it . Think i'll switch to BMW next time round.

You say MB have arrogant dealers (mine is really nice these days - the service manager brought me a coffee and we sat and chatted whilst I waited for them to finish washing my car). Plus MB paid for some bits even though the warranty had expired.
Having used them in the past I suggest you go BMW - you're in for a real lesson in arrogant dealerships! Plus, reliability wise BM are worse than MB!

 

[3146bj]

Whilst I have no issue with killing Panda's the smug cloud from your Environment Killer will block out half of Europe (I'm still looking for a down side)

If you are looking for the down side of a Prius, take one for a drive. A flawed design if ever there was one, where so much attention has been lavished on the high tech drive train that the rest of the car has suffered with faults like:
1. Terrible driver visibility restricted by the A pillar and rear vision so limited by the near vertical window in the tailgate that it may as well be solid steel.
2. So little steering feedback that it's like driving a computer simulator. Move the wheel and wait for something to happen before you know if you need to move it a bit more or less! No feel at all.
3. If you want to carry 4 people and their bags, be sure you are all good friends. It can be a bit cramped.
4. Its behaviour in strong crosswinds at speed is inconsistent. Cop a crosswind gust at 130km/hr and it moves one way, but at 100km/h it moves the opposite way. Just a bit scary!

And with fuel economy in mixed town/rural driving at 6.5l/100km compared with with 5.5 from a Golf diesel in similar conditions, it's not that green either.

A friend who works for Toyota marketing here in Oz aggrees strongly with these comments and adds that he would not buy one - condemnation if ever there was as he carries the Toyota trademark branded on his forehead!

 

[hawk20]

I love the look of the MB's but arrogant dealers , rubbish build qualitiy and endless problems just isnt worth it . Think i'll switch to BMW next time round.

I should be very careful. The 5 series finished 45th in JD Power (the E class was in the top ten) and in the year before the 5 series was 54th.

One person with a bad experience is no fair sample. Jd Power are the biggest serious sample we have and on that basis Mercedes are much better than most. My local dealer is excellent and could not be more helpful. The quality of the MB's I've owned could not be faulted.