Will 2012 spell the end of the diesel engine

[television]

Though most diesel engines will meet the next EU directive the 2012 directive is something else. EU V requires an 80% reduction in exhaust particulates and this will have a major impact on diesels. There are several ways of doing this, one is by including additives, but some car makers are coming unstuck, VAG is one example. The method used here is to have an additional tank that injects a chemical additive every time that you open the fuel filler,, these tanks hold enough additive to go some 75k miles without re charging the system. In practice this is not working as many motorist are filling up on a ½ empty tank or even just by putting a few liters in at a time. This has had the effect of emptying this tank at 30k miles. The cost of filling it is around £400 and is a horrible job to do.

By increasing the rail pressure to 2,200bar many will pass now and meet the next NOx limits, fuel can be pressurized up to 3,000 bar but hardly any further atomization takes place over 2,200 bar.

Another way of dealing with the particulates is in the NOx storage box,, but even these are giving problems. What is happening is that the engine and box have to be taken up to a high temperature, this is around 400º C With this system there is a warning lamp on the dash,, should this light start flashing, then the car must be taken for a high speed run for at least 20 minutes. If this is not done and the lamp comes on with no flashing the car will go into the limp home mode, and has to go into the workshop where the engine is run at 4,000 rpm for 20 minutes. during this time the exhaust box will go up to 600º C,, at this heat it will strip the garage floor of any paint, and all of this is pointing the end of the diesel.

Diesel cars cost £1k more to produce than petrol cars. the many things that are waiting around the corner ( I will do a separate post) could push them way ahead and make the diesel no longer viable

 

[Jay Gee]

Truck manufacturers seem to have got over this by using two systems,DAF,Volvo and MB have gone the Ad-Blue route(which needs a separate smaller tank),MAN and Scania use EGR.Both camps reckon that their system is the best and will even pass Euro 6.In both cases,exhaust systems are critical and expensive.I'm sure that car makers must be looking at these,but they may not be suitable perhaps?

 

[dragon]

It will be a wonderful world when all the diesels are gone, it the cause of all asthma.

 

[television]

Truck manufacturers seem to have got over this by using two systems,DAF,Volvo and MB have gone the Ad-Blue route(which needs a separate smaller tank),MAN and Scania use EGR.Both camps reckon that their system is the best and will even pass Euro 6.In both cases,exhaust systems are critical and expensive.I'm sure that car makers must be looking at these,but they may not be suitable perhaps?

I sat in on a seminar yesterday on this interesting topic, yes several ways, but if the petrol engines leap ahead as they well could, the diesels could be too expensive to produce.

When I get round to doing this and explain petrol engines with no camshafts or throttle bodies, this will make it clearer

 

[Jay Gee]

I sat in on a seminar yesterday on this interesting topic, yes several ways, but if the petrol engines leap ahead as they well could, the diesels could be too expensive to produce.

When I get round to doing this and explain petrol engines with no camshafts or throttle bodies, this will make it clearer

That sounds fascinating-can't wait.Words of three syllables max. and pictures(for me at least )

 

[colechelle]

Intresting phone call with you last night malc!! you explained it very vell over the phone but hard to write all of it down, but good job!! looking forward to the rest of it!!!!

 

[shaggy]

It will be a wonderful world when all the diesels are gone, it the cause of all asthma.

what????
where are your facts to back this up?

 

[shaggy]

I sat in on a seminar yesterday on this interesting topic, yes several ways, but if the petrol engines leap ahead as they well could, the diesels could be too expensive to produce.

When I get round to doing this and explain petrol engines with no camshafts or throttle bodies, this will make it clearer

mmmm
have to dissagree
why are manufacturers developing cleaner quieter more powerfull diesel engines?
what about when the oil runs out?
rape oil will be grown and burned with neutral effect on the environment and refineing it into derv will be cheaper than to petrol

or am i missing something?

 

[NewMB]

I don't think diesel engines will be gone until at least 2015-2020. BUT, more effecient engines (petrol or other) will be available before then.

The future say electric and hybrid in my little world.

 

[Ellsy Tanners]

mmmm
have to dissagree
why are manufacturers developing cleaner quieter more powerfull diesel engines?
what about when the oil runs out?
rape oil will be grown and burned with neutral effect on the environment and refineing it into derv will be cheaper than to petrol

or am i missing something?

I have read that if every spare metre square of agricultural land was used to grow rape seed for fuel demands, this would still not be enough to meet the demands if we all used it, so it is not a viable option for replacement.

 

[dragon]

what????
where are your facts to back this up?

If you do not believe me, try this

1. Get a hose and stick it at the end of the exhaust
2. Put the other end under your nose
3. Close all windows and doors
4. Start the diesel engine
5. and breathe in.

 

[nickcc101]

Truck manufacturers seem to have got over this by using two systems,DAF,Volvo and MB have gone the Ad-Blue route(which needs a separate smaller tank),MAN and Scania use EGR.Both camps reckon that their system is the best and will even pass Euro 6.In both cases,exhaust systems are critical and expensive.I'm sure that car makers must be looking at these,but they may not be suitable perhaps?

One of the problems with AD-BLUE is that if you run out then the engine power reduces considerably. Whilst on a tour of France a few months ago the DAF engined coach we were on ran out and we missed the Ferry on our return due to the speed reduction. It would seem that not many service stations have stocks of AD-BLUE. As regards exposure to Diesel fumes, i have spent the last 48 years as a commercial vehicle mechanic with (as yet) no ill effects.

 

[dragon]

One of the problems with AD-BLUE is that if you run out then the engine power reduces considerably. Whilst on a tour of France a few months ago the DAF engined coach we were on ran out and we missed the Ferry on our return due to the speed reduction. It would seem that not many service stations have stocks of AD-BLUE. As regards exposure to Diesel fumes, i have spent the last 48 years as a commercial vehicle mechanic with (as yet) no ill effects.

Because the exhaust pipe is behind you. Everytimes I am behind a diesel vehicle, I get a headache and diesel vehicles are not maintained.:mrgreen:

 

[Splatt]

Ordinary diesel is pretty offensive , usually due to lack of maintenance and adjustment, but veggy diesel is an abomination to the nostrils

 

[simon_wall69]

Ordinary diesel is pretty offensive , usually due to lack of maintenance and adjustment, but veggy diesel is an abomination to the nostrils

I find that mine smells of wherever I got the oil from i.e. oil from the Chinese restaurant smells vaguely of prawn toast; from the kebab shop it smells of chillis, etc,.

 

[simon_wall69]

If you do not believe me, try this

1. Get a hose and stick it at the end of the exhaust
2. Put the other end under your nose
3. Close all windows and doors
4. Start the diesel engine
5. and breathe in.

This is ridiculous, you wouldn't do this with a petrol exhaust either.

 

[dragon]

This is ridiculous, you wouldn't do this with a petrol exhaust either.

Shaggy doesn't believe, if he does that he won't see the light of the day.

This is what Merc engine are supposed to do, emit only CO2, if some one wants to commit suicide, he/she will be surprised!

 

[simon_wall69]

Shaggy doesn't believe, if he does that he won't see the light of the day.

This is what Merc engine are supposed to do, emit only CO2, if some one wants to commit suicide, he/she will be surprised!

Shaggy was disagreeing with the asthma thing, and he is of course correct, it was a rather unnecessary post on an otherwise interesting thread.

 

[colechelle]

Shaggy was disagreeing with the asthma thing, and he is of course correct, it was a rather unnecessary post on an otherwise interesting thread.

Nothing knew there then!!!

 

[Jay Gee]

One of the problems with AD-BLUE is that if you run out then the engine power reduces considerably. Whilst on a tour of France a few months ago the DAF engined coach we were on ran out and we missed the Ferry on our return due to the speed reduction. It would seem that not many service stations have stocks of AD-BLUE. As regards exposure to Diesel fumes, i have spent the last 48 years as a commercial vehicle mechanic with (as yet) no ill effects.

I agree that Ad-Blue supplies are very patchy,but I've been led to believe that in an emergency,water ,or another liquid of a more personal nature will suffice for the engine management not to reduce available power,but the emissions will then obviously not conform to regulations.