Xenons...

[television]

I was confused by your post

'
Originally Posted by Retired
Previous car LR D3 with Xenons fitted as standard. No adjustment at all on the lights as far as I could see and only attached to the bodywork. Car had self leveling air suspension.

Your response:
The car would have had axle sensors, 1 front and 1 rear, it cannot have been any other way
'

which I took to mean that there was some connection between axle sensors and the headlamps.

I introduced the D3 example in support of the answer given by , I think, Whitenemesis who said that from a legal perspective self leveling suspension is sufficient.

All I can say is again that self levelling suspension will not do, MBs have a manual adjust on non xenon cars, you cannot have that with Xenons



On MBs they have axle sensors that drive the electric motors in the headlamps when Xenons are fitted

 

[Naraic]

Not so,, take a read of the regs,,,non xenon cars have a manual adjuster, you are not allowed that with Xenons

I know you must have the self leveling Malc...it's just I feel that it's overkill with the self leveling suspension.(To avoid confusion...I have Xenons).

 

[television]

I know you must have the self leveling Malc...it's just I feel that it's overkill with the self leveling suspension.(To avoid confusion...I have Xenons).

I agree completely on that

 

[Robbostanhill]

Has you car passed an MOT with these bulbs in? If yes, then you have been lucky...you got a stupid MOT station because your lights should have failed on three counts...no self leveling, no washers and the wrong reflectors.

The cop was perfectly correct. Just because you hadn't been stopped previously makes the others stupid...not him. Why do you call him an idiot. And why would he drive a Corsa...keep digging, the hole is getting bigger.

Disagree entirely... Critisism of any MOT facility is futile. The MOT is an opinion based on guidelines and varies from tester to tester.
There is a wealth of information on the VOSA site about the legalities for aftermarket and factory fitted HID lights which were only changed recently a quick look is at

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022109

There is also a description on the VOSA site that there are exemptions for self levelling devices for vehicles with stiff suspension or low load carrying capacity that would not affect the beam direction. Although there are no (as yet) details or lists of what vehicle are exempt.

The actual reflectors for normal lights are designed to maintain a beamspread defined by international agreement explained in the MOT manual and is measurable. The issue with HID at the moment is primarily one of spread caused by dirty lenses causing diffraction and therefore dazzling effect. Hence the need for cleaning devices. But NOT wipers.

There are way too many badly fitted ill adjusted aftermarket HID kits out there and bringing the UK into line with other European counties where the situation has been law for some time is just a step in a direction to better define the legalities of motor vehicles on a wider scale geographically. Some explanation here

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Changes to the MOT IM.pdf

 

[whitenemesis]

Irrespective of how MB implement the fitting of xenons, in the eyes of the MoT tester if the car has self-levelling suspension that will suffice (with the inclusion of headlamp washers as well).

 

[television]

Let us hope that is the case Peter, be nice if it is

I think that they may have cleaned up the rules a bit since I last read them

 

[RobWheatley]

Citroens have self levelling suspension but Don't have self levelling headlamps on the ones fitted with Xenon's, they are fixed, cars have to have one OR the other but are not required to have both.

 

[television]

I can recall reading back last year in the testing info, it said the way to check the lamps is to turn them on and they should raise, if some fitted by makers are not self levelling, perhaps the info has been amended to cater for those that do not.

Some interesting times ahead

 

[alexanderfoti]

I can recall reading back last year in the testing info, it said the way to check the lamps is to turn them on and they should raise, if some fitted by makers are not self levelling, perhaps the info has been amended to cater for those that do not.

Some interesting times ahead

Indeed! Especially considering those of us that use the retrofit kits, and go to great lengths to ensure they are installed in projector housings, with the correct beam pattern and alignment! (ie me!)

 

[RobWheatley]

The headlamps on my S are not projector, they look the same as standard halogen ones although they do self level and are marked as discharge (its just a shame they are not Bi Xenon)

 

[alexanderfoti]

The headlamps on my S are not projector, they look the same as standard halogen ones although they do self level and are marked as discharge (its just a shame they are not Bi Xenon)

The same as on my w210, although the projectors aren't a requirement, I believe?

On my other vehicles that have had halogens, I have modified the headlight assembly to contain projectors for a neater look, better beam pattern etc.

 

[television]

I know we may be going round in circles I found this

HID headlights can cause dazzle if they are dirty or aimed too high so car manufacturers must fit headlamp cleaning and levelling systems. A car will fail if a mandatory headlamp cleaning or levelling system is missing, doesn't work or is obviously defective.

Vehicles fitted with aftermarket HID systems must also be fitted with properly working washer and levelling systems.

This from another(I said this earlier)
HID headlights can cause dazzle if they are dirty or aimed too high so car manufacturers must fit headlamp cleaning and levelling systems. Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted the tester will switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted.

from here
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022109

Condition, operation including HID and LED headlamps for cleaning, self levelling and security. Headlamp aim. Main beam warning light.


In all I could find nothing that says otherwise

 

[whitenemesis]

Some interesting Q&As in this document, particularly the second -

"How will they know if the headlamp levelling etc is mandatory There is no requirement for a tester to know this as you will not be testing for presence/mandatory fitment, only testing for operation where it is fitted. "

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Testing Directive 2010 48 Q&As for MOT Scheme.doc

 

[television]

From what I am reading into this and from what has been posted so far it look as though--

If the car from new that was fitted with a self levelling device, then if you do a conversion to add Xenon lamps, that conversion must be as the makers would have done it.

Cars that from new that are sold with xenon lamps that do not have any form of levelling device, then xenon lamps can be fitted without any levelling device, as the car would be as approved in the first place.

I read pages of info last night, government papers are never the best to read and understand, but with all the main information it does read as my post above.

If you do a conversion, then if that conversion is done exactly as the makers got approval for, then you cannot have more than that.

 

[whitenemesis]

Reading the advice to testers and the actual test manual it seems clear to me that if the self-levelling and/or washers are fitted they must operate correctly.
But
The MoT tester is not expected to check if said items are required to be present.
The MoT manual does say "Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system". Which implies that they also may not be fitted.

So, if you got 'em they have to work. If you don't you won't fail the MoT BUT you might well get pulled up by the Police as did the OP

 

[w44nty]

This post has opened a right old can of worms,best advice is as follows


1. Don,t fit them to you car

2. If you have them, replace them with the standard bulbs

End of story

Steve

 

[Miffy]

I wonder if I can get an exemption for my car as its load carrying capacity is about two shopping bags

 

[Miffy]

2. If you have them, replace them with the standard bulbs

End of story

Steve

I will await judgement from the MOT before I remove mine. had them for over two years now and have never been flashed. My beam cut off is very sharp.

 

[television]

I will await judgement from the MOT before I remove mine. had them for over two years now and have never been flashed. My beam cut off is very sharp.

This is a point, just like with CATs, my guy are not going to look for trouble, or be difficult unless something very wrong shows up. So many things on the test are down to the discretion of the tester

 

[Miffy]

When I first added HID. I pulled them out after driving up the road as I could clearly see they were scattering light everywhere. So I went and bought some H7R that have been designed to work better in reflector units. I have never looked back since, of course if they do fail the MOT, I will have to revisit the situation.