Brexit

[davemercedes]

Frontstep said:
It's difficult when you have a rigid mindset to accept facts that don't accord with your narrow view.
As I pointed out above everything isn't rosy especially for some retailers but we need to remember everything was not perfect before the referendum and hasn't been good since the Banking crash.
Brexit hasn't happened yet so we all have some waiting to do perhaps many years before we get a clear view.
Currency markets ups and downs have been with us since the dawn of time.
Shrinkflation has been blamed on our Brexit vote, low interest rates,some even attributed Marmite gate to it !!!!

You keep saying "wait"...but what if we wait and you are wrong, what will you say then? Is it not possible to discuss this without the brexiters getting on their high horses and calling the rest of us...moaners?

I don't see it as a narrow mindset when the pound fell badly the day after the Brexit vote and a year later it's still down. So much for the "ups and down"s - we are still down and paying more. It will be interesting to see the results in the next week or so - because reportedly the £ has had it's best result for 10 months - how long do you think it will stay up?

The lower £ was supposed to be good news for exporters but as the business reports have shown we missed the boat there and Germany which has always managed to trade around the world (the D-Mark was trading at 2.5: £1 not long before they went into the Euro) and they have stayed as the top EU exporter. So even though I and other people are subsidising our exporters (at the supermarket till) they haven't exactly won the big prize have they?

But the currency experts who make a living out of our falling currency... now they've got a narrow mind set and doing nicely thank you. UK Inflation is currently 2.9% - it was virtually nil in the days before the referendum. Just after the referendum vote the BOE said rising inflation was coming with a headline rate of 2%... I think we will hit 4 or 5% by the end of the year even though we have just had the best rate for 10 months but that's largely due to the dollar failing to hold up. That in turn is now causing exporters raw material costs to rise. Don't forget that Unilever blamed the £/$ rate for increasing the price of Marmite in their spat with Tesco!

Denying the link between the Brexit vote and the latest "Shrinkflation" (which suppliers claim is due to being hit by currency issues) seems ludicrous to me - the Office of National Statistics tracked 2500-odd lines over the last year and reported on the "pay more for less" situation. As you say, it was a trick that was in use before - but at a much lower volume and in any case - so what? - The volume of shrunken packs in the past was much lower and it certainly doesn't make it any better at the till -does it? - I know it doesn't because I pay the bills.

So far as waiting goes Ciaran, we have a small possibility of USA helping us out of trouble but the problems forecast and derided as "Project Fear" are already here - rising prices and falling quality - just look at the quality and prices of veg in the supermarkets already - in that respect just wait and hope that the Sainsbury's ex-CEO "damning" forecast comes true!

 

[Frontstep]

You keep saying "wait"...but what if we wait and you are wrong, what will you say then? Is it not possible to discuss this without the brexiters getting on their high horses and calling the rest of us...moaners?

Clearly because we haven't left yet.

By all means moan when we do and we have had years of decline then fair enough.

The doom and gloom merchants are complaining just in case, before the divorce they didn't want has even happened.
We are still (well near enough) sleeping with the EU.
The optimism I have is just that optimism: hopefulness and confidence about the future or the success of Brexit.
I and many others in business are excited, friends not in business are often not as sanguine.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Oh contraire!, most who have little to lose, and believe that in some way the streets of Britian will once again flow with the sound of english accents and the only foreign accent being, yorkshire(lol) or maybe Scottish or welsh.... Aren't they in for maybe the biggest shock of their lives, if many of them should ever survive that long.

 

[Frontstep]

What an odd thing to say, Britain has had a migrant influx for generations from all the far flung corners of the earth well before the EU brought us its white northern European bias.
Soon Britain will have the freedom to determine who comes and how many,
hopefully attracted by the provision of good quality public services, housing and worthwhile jobs.
The present EU free for all has overwhelmed housing and public services in many areas leading to a generalised hostility to newcomers.
A trip to Yorkshire and you will hear a strong local accent for certain, but its quite likely though to come out of the mouth of a second generation migrant from outside the EU.

The downside of our current system the "open door free for all" policy as anyone who runs anything knows always ends in tears. Most of us learn it from our first teenage party, its great at first but soon degenerates and you are left with the wreckage and a headache the next day.
European arrest warrants are an expensive exercise for us, the current system lets in the good the bad and the downright dangerous.

Will our politicians manage this well ?
For that our recent history is poor, leaving the EU gives the opportunity not the cure.
It makes them accountable and removes excuses but will not be a panacea for our ills.

 

[LostKiwi]

Britain does not have an "open door free for all" policy.
Its actually a pain in the butt to enter the UK on a foreign passport as I know first hand, even with the correct documentation in place.
The only countries where there is an 'open door' are those EU members, yet our immigration from the non-EU countries is pretty much the same as those from the EU. This is interesting given the ease with which EU citizens can move here compared to those from non-EU nations. Moving to the UK from a neighbouring country is a LOT easier than moving here from a distant one yet the immigration levels are similar.

 

[PovertySpec]

There is no 'British' ..browser crash.. so there can't be any Britain, remember?

 

[davemercedes]

Britain does not have an "open door free for all" policy.
Its actually a pain in the butt to enter the UK on a foreign passport as I know first hand, even with the correct documentation in place.
The only countries where there is an 'open door' are those EU members, yet our immigration from the non-EU countries is pretty much the same as those from the EU. This is interesting given the ease with which EU citizens can move here compared to those from non-EU nations. Moving to the UK from a neighbouring country is a LOT easier than moving here from a distant one yet the immigration levels are similar.

If it wasn't a farce the immigration numbers would be a great joke. The Brexquitters who thought we would seize back our boarders etc via Brexit appear to have been completely blinkered to the performance (or more accurately lack of) of the then, Home Secretary who completely failed to control the non-EU immigrants as directed by and promised to the electorate by Cameron. Having failed completely in this area as Home Secretary, it seems everyone should now believe she will achieve it as PM (heh heh).

Worse still: the number of EU residents in UK is already falling - many are either afraid of staying or don't want to be here... So when reality dawns and government sees we can't staff big operations like the NHS (80,000 unfilled medical jobs three weeks ago) and Transport etc it's easy to forecast that the on-EU numbers aren't going to fall much.

 

[LostKiwi]

There is no 'British' ..browser crash.. so there can't be any Britain, remember?

My post refers to Frontstep's post. He used the word Britain in his post.

You're absolutley right to correct him.

 

[Naraic]

Having read Trump's leaked WSJ interview I would be more than a little concerned with his attitude to Britain post Brexit.

He's only concerned with his golf courses and whether or not Scotland would remain in the UK...if it doesn't would it still get the Open. This guy knows nothing, and anybody hoping there'll be some sort of trade deal let alone a great trade deal with the US in under 2 year is living in cloud cuckoo land.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...exit-eu-tariffs-exports-imports-a7872176.html

 

[triumphstag]

I believe the new remoaner plan is to moan and moan and moan and keep pointing out every possible negative thing happening that can be blamed on Brexit in the hope that a constant barrage of negativity will convince those who voted leave that they were wrong.

It won't.

I still strongly believe that the decision to leave is the right one, and the actions of the EU since then have only served to strengthen this belief.

What the country should do is come together to make our position as strong as possible, present a united front and work towards a positive future.

But no. Those who lost the argument seem like they want us to fail so that they can smugly say I told you so. Despite these people we will make a go of this.

 

[LostKiwi]

I'm so looking forward to this brave new world of yours.
No seriously I am!
Only problem is all I can see of it at present are higher inflation, falling exchange rates, shrinking manufacturing, shrinking retail sector and a housing market that looks to be stagnating.
I don't think that in 2 years time anything will be better either.

 

[davemercedes]

I believe the new Brexquitter plan is to insist all things are positive and keep pointing out every possible little thing happening that looks like Brexit will be a benefit in the hope that a constant barrage of positivity will convince those who voted remain that they were wrong.

It won't.

I still strongly believe that the decision to leave is the wrong one, and the actions of the EU since then have been driven by a UK government and ministers that had it's head in the clouds (or more likely somewhere more vulgar) and that strengthens this belief.

Our cabinet is still split over "when" and "how long" they think we should take to leave - and they all arrogantly expect the other 27 to just roll over and give us what we would "like". I'm afraid that as each week goes by, the EU are more and more likely to send us up the proverbial creek with no paddle.

It's unlikely to be any better in even four years time and I'm certainly not looking forward to four years of rising inflation and falling availability and quality! - But like the man on the fibreglass hippo says "This is happening!"

The trouble with the EU is, that when we elected to leave, for some reason the other 27 members have objected to UK's aggressive attitude. It's not much wonder when they still don't know what UK wants!

 

[triumphstag]

I believe the new Brexquitter plan is to insist all things are positive and keep pointing out every possible little thing happening that looks like Brexit will be a benefit in the hope that a constant barrage of positivity will convince those who voted remain that they were wrong.

It won't.

I still strongly believe that the decision to leave is the wrong one, and the actions of the EU since then have been driven by a UK government and ministers that had it's head in the clouds (or more likely somewhere more vulgar) and that strengthens this belief.

Our cabinet is still split over "when" and "how long" they think we should take to leave - and they all arrogantly expect the other 27 to just roll over and give us what we would "like". I'm afraid that as each week goes by, the EU are more and more likely to send us up the proverbial creek with no paddle.

It's unlikely to be any better in even four years time and I'm certainly not looking forward to four years of rising inflation and falling availability and quality! - But like the man on the fibreglass hippo says "This is happening!"

The trouble with the EU is, that when we elected to leave, for some reason the other 27 members have objected to UK's aggressive attitude. It's not much wonder when they still don't know what UK wants!

Lol, predictable.

 

[Naraic]

I believe the new remoaner plan is to moan and moan and moan and keep pointing out every possible negative thing happening that can be blamed on Brexit in the hope that a constant barrage of negativity will convince those who voted leave that they were wrong.

It won't.

I still strongly believe that the decision to leave is the right one, and the actions of the EU since then have only served to strengthen this belief.

What the country should do is come together to make our position as strong as possible, present a united front and work towards a positive future.

But no. Those who lost the argument seem like they want us to fail so that they can smugly say I told you so. Despite these people we will make a go of this.

But that's facile.

Sure the leavers won the vote, so what? Those of who may not have voted that way to be characterised constantly as moaners is just a little offensive. In the end someone will be right someone wrong. Why is it wrong to point up our concerns? In so doing we will not influence the outcome but will be more prepared for either eventuality.

And for those who voted leave to say they have no concerns is ...unbelievable.

 

[Yugguy]

Of course I have concerns but I'm not sure what there is to do except wait to see what happens. We are not going to un-brexit so all we can do is look forward.

 

[Naraic]

Of course I have concerns but I'm not sure what there is to do except wait to see what happens. We are not going to un-brexit so all we can do is look forward.

So, if this thread is not a discussion what's the point of it?

 

[triumphstag]

But that's facile.

Sure the leavers won the vote, so what? Those of who may not have voted that way to be characterised constantly as moaners is just a little offensive. In the end someone will be right someone wrong. Why is it wrong to point up our concerns? In so doing we will not influence the outcome but will be more prepared for either eventuality.

And for those who voted leave to say they have no concerns is ...unbelievable.

It's not facile at all. What is facile is the constant barrage of negativity about something we are now commited to. But if it makes you feel better then go ahead.

Shame people cant out so much energy into making a success of it.

 

[Yugguy]

There is NO point to this thread. Politics is divisive and polarising. Discussion simply entrenches already deep beliefs.

 

[Naraic]

It's not facile at all. What is facile is the constant barrage of negativity about something we are now commited to. But if it makes you feel better then go ahead.

Shame people cant out so much energy into making a success of it.

I'm sure there are as many people supporting it as being doubtful.

Since the vote was almost 50/50 the country is evenly divided. In any event it doesn't matter one jot what either side says...the Govt. will determine what happens and we will all have to live with it...and no doubt will make a success of what comes of it. But we can all be as concerned as we like up to the end.

 

[nicholas15]

After so many years in what is now the EU it is inevitable that changing into a non-EU country will present challenges as well as opportunities. It is simplistic and naive to think the government can determine the outcomes of the Brexit negotiations since the EU will also have its view of the outcome it wants. There will be trade offs; so having clarity over what is important to the UK is helpful, as is having a view on what is less important.
I suspect for many the principle of labour movement - from the EU or elsewhere - is not contentious. What is important is the degree of control we have as a country to decide the controls and conditions of such movements. By its nature the EU is an centralist construction with the unelected Commission have most of the key controls. Therefore eliminating the control of Brussels over UK matters to mean is a red line. Just as I would not accept the US or China dictating UK policies - even if we have strong trading links.
Having experienced many governments over the past years I am a strong believer in a small government but with individuals and their families taking greater responsibility for their lives. However the nanny state approach of government over more recent years means that self-reliance is rarer than it should be. Too often we look to government to solve problems instead of ourselves. Therefore I hope the Brexit negotiations mean independece from the EU but also a lesser role for government in our lives.