After diesel gate - diesel or petrol Mercedes?

[Arudge]

My husband loves the car, but has lost confidence in it.

i fully understand, my perspective is different because i understand how the car works and have always done my own repairs, and i do like the Mercedes because because they are designed to be repaired, much like my old Landrover. My wife's Renault on the other hand, is just plain awful.

So i do understand your husbands concerns, he may well think he'll draw up to the traffic lights one day and the door will drop off, the engine fall out and watch all the wheels roll off down the road, but it really isn't like that. Your only concern is one of cost because there is nothing that can't be repaired.

 

[Arudge]

Are you talking about a regen, Arudge? We've done that ourselves and had it done via a machine, and the dreaded amber light always comes back!

No. I'm talking about removing the DPF and smashing the guts out of it. The machine is failing the test because the DPF is creating too much back pressure, it's full of soot and can't be cleaned. The solution is to put a big hole straight through it. Yes, it's frowned upon and is technically illegal, but it's not enforced. The DPF functionality cannot be tested at MOT so only a visual inspection is required.

At MOT they will look to see if the DPF is fitted, they will not remove it to see if there is anything inside it. But if the MOT inspector finds the the DPF has been replaced by a straight section of pipe, it will be failed because the DPF is clearly not present.

Government is aware of all this and is currently looking for a solution, but as with all things government it will be several years before they actually implement anything, if they manage to at all.

 

[Arudge]

The car isn't worth a great deal now, so another 40k on the clock will not matter too much!

A car (by and large) is not an investment, it's a necessity that has a bad habit of burning cash. You don't buy a pair of shoes and look to sell them on 10 years later for a profit. You buy them, enjoy them and then replace them when the time comes. A car is no different.

 

[Droverunner]

>>>i fully understand, my perspective is different because i understand how the car works and have always done my own repairs

Exactly my situation and sometimes it is hard to look at things from the perspective of others that need to use a garage every time the slightest thing happens. That is why unless the service/repair costs of a Mercedes come easily I would consider other makes with a greater chance of doing the 20k/yr without premium car costs.

 

[Arudge]

>>>i fully understand, my perspective is different because i understand how the car works and have always done my own repairs

Exactly my situation and sometimes it is hard to look at things from the perspective of others that need to use a garage every time the slightest thing happens. That is why unless the service/repair costs of a Mercedes come easily I would consider other makes with a greater chance of doing the 20k/yr without premium car costs.

Absolutly. All were trying to do here is help the OP in her decision making process. There are many viable solutions being offered, she can then choose which one best meets her needs.

 

[Droverunner]

Just as an example as I have all service invoice history for our MB... The previous owner of our 2007 CLK took it for a B service and MOT at 76k mls. The bill with a tyre plus discs/pads was £963. We would struggle to afford to run a MB if those sort of costs popped up regularly. I could do the same work myself in a day with quality parts for £600 less. Makes a big big difference and really skews the whys and wherefores of used car choices.

 

[turbopete]

No. I'm talking about removing the DPF and smashing the guts out of it. The machine is failing the test because the DPF is creating too much back pressure, it's full of soot and can't be cleaned. The solution is to put a big hole straight through it. Yes, it's frowned upon and is technically illegal, but it's not enforced. The DPF functionality cannot be tested at MOT so only a visual inspection is required.

At MOT they will look to see if the DPF is fitted, they will not remove it to see if there is anything inside it. But if the MOT inspector finds the the DPF has been replaced by a straight section of pipe, it will be failed because the DPF is clearly not present.

Government is aware of all this and is currently looking for a solution, but as with all things government it will be several years before they actually implement anything, if they manage to at all.

ive read a few articles online now that say that regulations are coming in with some sort of test to detect the presence of a DPF as early as next year (2018). now whether this will affect ALL dpf equipped cars or only ones produced/registered at a time when a DPF was a COMPULSORY fitment (euro 5 emissions) remains to be seen.

 

[daibevan]

Just as an example as I have all service invoice history for our MB... The previous owner of our 2007 CLK took it for a B service and MOT at 76k mls. The bill with a tyre plus discs/pads was £963. We would struggle to afford to run a MB if those sort of costs popped up regularly. I could do the same work myself in a day with quality parts for £600 less. Makes a big big difference and really skews the whys and wherefores of used car choices.

And enjoy doing it

 

[MalcQV]

Just as an example as I have all service invoice history for our MB... The previous owner of our 2007 CLK took it for a B service and MOT at 76k mls. The bill with a tyre plus discs/pads was £963. We would struggle to afford to run a MB if those sort of costs popped up regularly. I could do the same work myself in a day with quality parts for £600 less. Makes a big big difference and really skews the whys and wherefores of used car choices.

Yikes, I only paid £1600 for mine. I'd do it myself or scrap it if I got that as a quote.

I only do about 14k/year and prior to this 240, I had two diesel (Alfas). Whilst I loved the economy on the first one the EGR valve clogging up was a PITA. I had to clean it every 3-4 months. I regularly got 43 mpg on my 32 miles return trip to work.
The second one was a 5 cylinder 2.4 which for a diesel sounded rather good. About 39 MPG on that same trip. I realised that they weren't that economical for diesels. I notice the average of 26 mpg on this CLK now but I do love the car and engine.
I don't see me returning to diesel again, well unless it was V8 diesel
However if I was doing 40k/year then I would consider one. Incidentally Clio, you mentioned a Prius. Some years back engineers at a datacentre we used had Priuses. It was about the company looking green but the engineers said as they were essentially doing motorway miles the Prius was more expensive (a lot more) than the diesels they had before.
The Prius (and possibly other petrol hybrids) work better for city and town driving I think.

 

[Tony MB]

It's going to be along time before they outlaw diesels, they have a lot of work to do making charge points available plus manufactures will have to design a power system that will last more than 50 miles or a few hours.
That being said i've just retired a Rover 75 tourer estate diesel (face lift) in favor of my CLK 240 Petrol.
The MPG on the Rover was well into high 40's on a run but as I don't do a lot miles per week now I'm retired the CLK is much more enjoyable to drive.

 

[Arudge]

It's going to be along time before they outlaw diesels, they have a lot of work to do making charge points available plus manufactures will have to design a power system that will last more than 50 miles or a few hours.
That being said i've just retired a Rover 75 tourer estate diesel (face lift) in favor of my CLK 240 Petrol.
The MPG on the Rover was well into high 40's on a run but as I don't do a lot miles per week now I'm retired the CLK is much more enjoyable to drive.

Just goes to prove it's not all about the money/economy.

Love the tag line BTW.

 

[Arudge]

ive read a few articles online now that say that regulations are coming in with some sort of test to detect the presence of a DPF as early as next year (2018). now whether this will affect ALL dpf equipped cars or only ones produced/registered at a time when a DPF was a COMPULSORY fitment (euro 5 emissions) remains to be seen.

I'd be grateful if you could forward any of those articles, i've had a search and can't find anything. I've also been on the gov.uk site and can't find anything newer than 2015, but i'm very interested in anything you have found.

 

[Arudge]

Just as an example as I have all service invoice history for our MB... The previous owner of our 2007 CLK took it for a B service and MOT at 76k mls. The bill with a tyre plus discs/pads was £963. We would struggle to afford to run a MB if those sort of costs popped up regularly. I could do the same work myself in a day with quality parts for £600 less. Makes a big big difference and really skews the whys and wherefores of used car choices.

This level of billing is quite frankly outrageous, any enthusiast should be able meet their vehicles basic maintenance needs, but i appreciate not everybody is an enthusiast, is capable, or even interested.

Many years ago, as an impoverished apprentice, in an age before car loans, mobile phones and disposable income, the only way to own a car that worked was to buy a banger and fix it.

Sadly, some 35 years later i'm still buying bangers and fixing them.....


And enjoy doing it


Strangely, yes.

 

[turbopete]

seems they were going to be introduced may this year, for testing at least. no idea if they have been, but id assume not past testing stage yet. (link is an online 'trade' magazine)

http://garagewire.co.uk/news/mot-changes-to-be-introduced-in-may-following-dpf-investigation/

 

[Clio]

No. I'm talking about removing the DPF and smashing the guts out of it. The machine is failing the test because the DPF is creating too much back pressure, it's full of soot and can't be cleaned. The solution is to put a big hole straight through it. Yes, it's frowned upon and is technically illegal, but it's not enforced. The DPF functionality cannot be tested at MOT so only a visual inspection is required.

At MOT they will look to see if the DPF is fitted, they will not remove it to see if there is anything inside it. But if the MOT inspector finds the the DPF has been replaced by a straight section of pipe, it will be failed because the DPF is clearly not present.

Government is aware of all this and is currently looking for a solution, but as with all things government it will be several years before they actually implement anything, if they manage to at all.

Thanks for this, and your other posts Arudge. I know a little about cars, my husband just wants to drive them so we have to take the car to the garage for every little thing and it's always a worry because of the costs.

I like your comment about thinking that we will draw up at traffic lights one day and the car falls apart I think that's exactly the mindset we have about the car at the moment!

I like your thinking about the DPF ... especially the part about smashing the guts out of

 

[Clio]

That is why unless the service/repair costs of a Mercedes come easily I would consider other makes with a greater chance of doing the 20k/yr without premium car costs.

I think that's where we headed at the moment, Droverunner. We went to look at cars yesterday, and my husband saw a nearly new petrol Astra with low mileage (help to offset some of his high mileage) at a reasonable-ish price (if you believe Vauxhall and the EDLP - every day low price, ie not negotiable!). He's thinking of buying it. It's a nice looking car and the spec was good but I thought there was a lot of road noise; perhaps I've just been spoiled by the MB.

Speaking of dealers - I guess the margins must be really tight because every single one of them are flogging all kinds of stuff in addition to the dreaded PCP such as GAP insurance, paint protection, alloy protection, minor repair protection. It adds £1+k to the overall costs. Outrageous!

PS ... you're not wrong about the cost of repairs when you can't do it yourself. Back in the day, I used to service my own car and do all sorts of repairs. New cars seem to be so much more complex and expensive.

 

[Clio]

Yikes, I only paid £1600 for mine. I'd do it myself or scrap it if I got that as a quote.

I only do about 14k/year and prior to this 240, I had two diesel (Alfas). Whilst I loved the economy on the first one the EGR valve clogging up was a PITA. I had to clean it every 3-4 months. I regularly got 43 mpg on my 32 miles return trip to work.
The second one was a 5 cylinder 2.4 which for a diesel sounded rather good. About 39 MPG on that same trip. I realised that they weren't that economical for diesels. I notice the average of 26 mpg on this CLK now but I do love the car and engine.
I don't see me returning to diesel again, well unless it was V8 diesel
However if I was doing 40k/year then I would consider one. Incidentally Clio, you mentioned a Prius. Some years back engineers at a datacentre we used had Priuses. It was about the company looking green but the engineers said as they were essentially doing motorway miles the Prius was more expensive (a lot more) than the diesels they had before.
The Prius (and possibly other petrol hybrids) work better for city and town driving I think.

Thanks for your post, MalcQV. We've been looking into hybrid's more over the weekend, and have to agree with you about them working out more expensive on motorway commutes so that idea has been shelved.

 

[Clio]

Many years ago, as an impoverished apprentice, in an age before car loans, mobile phones and disposable income, the only way to own a car that worked was to buy a banger and fix it.

I and my ex used to love buying old cars and doing them up. Sometimes we bit off more than we could chew (thank heavens for Haynes manuals!), but we loved it.

Our aim was to buy, do up and sell at a small profit each time and put the profit into the next car until we could afford a decent car. We were doing quite well, but lost the lot on one car

 

[LostKiwi]

The biggest cost for any car is depreciation.
This is worst int he first three years and then progressively decreases until it gets to 'classic' status (for the right car) and then become appreciation.

For example in the first three years of any car's life it will likely depreciate to less than half its new price (some cars will lose 70% of their value in this time!)
This is slightly improved by buying a car at 1 year old but not by a lot.
From a financial perspective it is often best to buy at the three year old mark or older (depending on vehicle and its ability to wear mileages).
For example... if you spend £25k on a new or nearly new car that car will be worth £10-12k after three years (assuming average mileage). Thats over £4k per year in depreciation alone and you still have servicing costs, tyres etc.

Now buying that car at 3 years old for £12k and running it for 3 years will see it continue its depreciation at the same percentage rate (roughly) but the money quantity will be lower. So £12k purchase becomes £6k value after three years so costing £2k in depreciation. Another three years see another 50% drop in value but also a 50% drop in cost per year and so on...

The question then becomes "At what point is the depreciation benefit outweighed by the repair costs?
THAT is a very vehicle dependent question and one which is also subject to luck.

For example.... we have run a 2001 E class estate for the past year. It cost is £600 to buy and has cost us an additional £50 for a crank sensor (which was known about at the time of purchase), an airconditioning compressor (£300 including fitting and regas for a new one - also known to be an issue at purchase), a wheel bearing (£30) and not much more other than fuel and a little oil. It hasn't even asked for a service until last week!

Now I do all my own work (well mostly - I didn't do the aircon compressor) so thats £1k for the full year including purchase price plus fuel!

Yes its a bit rusty in places but really it doesn't matter to use as long as it keeps passing the MOT. We have other cars for when we want to go out in a nice looking car....

Of the 5 cars we have 4 of them are now on over 90k miles. Only one has been owned since new (my wife's car and solely because she had locked herself into a PCP before we met) and the newest one (at 2014) is still the most expensive per year to own solely down to its depreciation.

Now 'bangernomics' isn't for everyone (if you can call a V8 SL Mercedes a banger!) but it has worked well for me over the past 10 years or so. Yes there have been some lemons (a Saab 9-3 was most notable closely followed by a Toyota Landcruiser Colorado) but to date the MBs have been great.

Weekend after next the E class will do its 5th fully laden trip to France in a year, after I've given it a service....

 

[Clio]

Really interesting post, LostKiwi with lots of stuff to think about. Thanks!

We can't do our own repairs so the costs for us probably wouldn't work, but you've given us food for thought regarding the age of the vehicle and so forth.