2011 Vito 116cdi only starts on 2nd crank ?

[DAVID T]

Hi guys, hoping to solve this mystery with the help of this amazing knowledge pool.

My 2011 Vito 116cdi will only start on second key turn or second crank.

Turns over but won’t fire ,,
Second key turn , fires and runs normal every time .

Has new injectors

Fuel system is all good , no errors on Star scanner

Any advice or experience with this would be much appreciated .

 

[onefortheroad]

Glow plugs ?

 

[bembo449]

as above or a fuel pressure issue , I'm assuming it spins over well so it wont be a battery low on cranking amps ?

 

[mattkh]

My 2011 Vito 116cdi will only start on second key turn or second crank.
Any advice or experience with this would be much appreciated .

Is this first thing in the morning, or after every stop?

 

[DAVID T]

Fuel rail pressures are 100% ok
New fuel quality control valve
New set of injectors

The issue is not intermittent
It is 100 % the same everytime
First key turn cranks normal but won’t fire .
Second key turn , it fires 100% perfect everytime and runs with perfect diagnostics.

 

[DAVID T]

Mattkh, morning or afternoon , hot or cold is the same , no change

 

[M80]

Alarm immobiliser, possibly??

I'm not thinking one of the relays as that would be more erratic.

 

[DAVID T]

Interesting , thanks M80
My feeling is electronic , ecu programming or something similar .

When it’s running I can turn it off , and it will start first crank within 20 or 30 seconds
After that , it’s back to same problem ,second crank only .

 

[M80]

If you turn the key to position 2 and leave it for perhaps 15 seconds (beyond the glow plug warning going out) would that allow an instant start?

 

[DAVID T]

Just tested and confirm leaving in position 2 for 15 and 30 seconds made no difference

 

[bembo449]

very odd problem , this

 

[DAVID T]

Indeed it is odd, that’s why I came to where all the odd people hang out )

 

[Doug1234]

I presume its a manual gearbox , so what if you stop it and wait for a couple of minutes and then roll it down a hill and basically bump start it ... if it starts each time then its something to do with whatever ecu is looking at to enable starting as it is being cranked.

 

[DAVID T]

Sorry Doug it’s an Auto .
We tried starting it while plugged into my mechanics Star Scanner and no fault or errors come up. Nothing changes

 

[mattkh]

OK. A wild shot.
If you have a spare battery, charge it fully. Then one morning, connect it as if you were doing a jump start. Then have a go starting it. Any difference?

 

[Doug1234]

Does the one touch key function work ?, you get in and put ignition on and then flick the key over to crank and let it go .. ecu cranks engine over for say 6 seconds max and then it either fires up or ecu stops cranking.

 

[DAVID T]

i Used to let it engage and crank over on first turn just Incase it might start .
But now I don’t even give it a chance to engage on first key turn . I just turn key fast and instantly turn back . Then turn again and starts perfect .
I only do this because it is completely consistent ,, every time and is not intermittent . Which is why it feels like an ecu issue , like it’s sequence is locked in place and programmed to do this on purpose.

 

[M80]

Is the battery voltage healthy? But a 2nd turn of the key wouldn't improve that, it'd be worse if anything.
You've eliminated fuel pressure, but you aren't allowing it to crank and build 1st time anyway.

Aside from a 'possible' immobiliser issue I can't think what would be sending a signal to the ECU to permit the start, but not the 1st time.

The only comparable I can see is on mine I've to lock once and all is good aside from the hazards continue to flash indefinitely. A second locking and they extinguish. My clue to cause was when I triggered the alarm and there was no sound only flashing, so I'm thinking it's the sounder which I believe has it's own rechargeable cell. I'll get around to it one day when it's not raining. It's worth a thought but likely no use.
So I'm with you, ECU problem.

There are places that may be able to interrogate for that?? But if it is consistent and unlikely to worsen (unknown but nothing points to that) is it worth the hassle?

 

[curious]

Been following this one with interest and since all other options have virtually been exhausted I'll add my own experience.
Mine was inconsistent with its behaviour and became increasingly worse with time. I would turn the key and nothing would happen. Repeat, and it would start.
This would get increasingly more frustrating as after a while it would take several attempts before it would fire.
The one thing that was consistent was that when turning the key to position 1 and all the dash lights came on, if the glow plug light didn't come on, it wouldn't start. It would only start if the glow plug light came on. (There was nothing wrong with the glow plugs etc).
Through a process of elimination came to the conclusion is was ECU related. Faced with the possibility of a new ECU and the no-doubt crazy price that went with that I decided I had nothing to lose through re-flashing the ECU with Star.
Re-flashing the ECU with my ebay Star is not for the faint-hearted.
However, once done, all problems vanished. (My ebay Star more than paid for itself with that one procedure alone.)

Do all the dash lights come on in a consistent manner between attempts?
Even if they do, it might be worth considering getting it re-flashed.

 

[Doug1234]

Mention of glow plugs made me go and find this I was reading on a Jeep forum a while ago ,alternator hassle on a om642 engined Jeep
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/

This bit about 2/3rds into the posts


Not all alternators are created equal. Alternator regulator on the OM642 is controlled via LIN bus. So you have to install a LIN bus capable alternator/regulator. The glow plug module is also on a LIN. If it has a problem, the whole LIN can go haywire and some strange things happen. If you have the old version of a GP module (that large square with white metal bottom) it is prone to fail and it can also affect the charging