A45 AMG 2014 coolant issues ?

[Luke Parsons]

Hello there I’m new to this but I need some advice, on my a45 amg I noticed that when I took off the engine cover there was another ‘coolant’ looking container which was empty just to the right hand side of the oil cap I’ve had issues with the temperature fluctuating and then the launch control not working because it wasn’t up to temperature, I’ve filled it up and it seems to be okay now does anyone have any advice as to what this container may be ? Many thanks

 

[LostKiwi]

A picture tells a story....

 

[Luke Parsons]

This thing here

 

[Uncle Benz]

Chargecooler reservoir

 

[Luke Parsons]

Does it just have normal coolant put into it then ? And will that then keep the temperature gauge at a steady level ?

 

[LostKiwi]

Nothing (much) to do with engine temperature.
It's for cooling the compressed air coming from the turbo into the engine.

 

[Botus]

do we mean its got a water cooled intercooler? would it not be on the same circuit at the engine coolant?

...and if not it has its own totally separate system, with radiator, pump and everything ? if so where's the coolant gone, though the now perforated made of tin foil parts?

 

[LostKiwi]

do we mean its got a water cooled intercooler? would it not be on the same circuit at the engine coolant?

...and if not it has its own totally separate system, with radiator, pump and everything ? if so where's the coolant gone, though the now perforated made of tin foil parts?

Yes it has a watercooled intercooler (chargecooler) with its own circuit complete with pump.
You wouldn't want it on the same circuit as the engine coolant as the whole idea is to make the incoming gas as cold as possible, not heat it up to 90 degrees.

Chargecoolers aren't uncommon on engines with high bhp/litre figures - even the Smart Roadster Brabus has one.

As for where the liquid has gone that's yet to be determined.

Given you didn't know about the chargecooler how can you say the parts are made from tinfoil?

 

[Botus]

Yes it has a watercooled intercooler (chargecooler) with its own circuit complete with pump.
You wouldn't want it on the same circuit as the engine coolant as the whole idea is to make the incoming gas as cold as possible, not heat it up to 90 degrees.

Chargecoolers aren't uncommon on engines with high bhp/litre figures - even the Smart Roadster Brabus has one.

As for where the liquid has gone that's yet to be determined.

Given you didn't know about the chargecooler how can you say the parts are made from tinfoil?

thanks, I didn't know they had their own circuit. Yes, I get 90 degrees seems hot, but I expect it would still be significant cooling.... compressing air and forcing in at the speed high pressure turbos do, I bet is way hotter? and it should give consistent temp of incoming air that you could tune the car to cope with?

My Mitsubishi evo (as std) had a button to spray washer fluid on to the outside of the intercooler for a bit of added pep under hard abuse

lots of condensers and rads on all brands now made out of nothing, if you have a Porsche 3 years and 40k miles is normal life expectancy for the intercoolers....

 

[LostKiwi]

thanks, I didn't know they had their own circuit. Yes, I get 90 degrees seems hot, but I expect it would still be significant cooling.... compressing air and forcing in at the speed high pressure turbos do, I bet is way hotter? and it should give consistent temp of incoming air that you could tune the car to cope with?

My Mitsubishi evo (as std) had a button to spray washer fluid on to the outside of the intercooler for a bit of added pep under hard abuse

lots of condensers and rads on all brands now made out of nothing, if you have a Porsche 3 years and 40k miles is normal life expectancy for the intercoolers....

Consistent cold temperatures are what are desired. A chargecooler has a much higher thermal mass than an intercooler as it has all that water to heat, hence can give relatively stable charge temperatures that only increase slowly under sustained hard driving.
You can also create a degree of thermal leverage by sizing the air to water part of the system much larger than the charge to water part, thus potentially preventing any significant temperature increase at all and further increasing the thermal mass.

Thermal mass is the amount of input heat energy the system can absorb per degree of output temperature.

 

[Botus]

but.... the cooling of the incoming charge becomes related to ambient temp ? so in winter its very fast, but in Saudi its crap, do we have a thermostat as well to warm it up to 35C

if you did it my way on engine coolant temp, once at operating temp you always get the same incoming charge temp and I can build my whole powertrain based on stability not ambient weather....

so with this new one, there's three rads (heat exchangers) out front all impacting the one behind.... quite pricey and which comes first

red hot air from the turbo on to the AC that now doesn't work but add yet more heat to and engine at melting point.... sounds like we need to rethink where we waist energy...

 

[LostKiwi]

but.... the cooling of the incoming charge becomes related to ambient temp ? so in winter its very fast, but in Saudi its crap, do we have a thermostat as well to warm it up to 35C

if you did it my way on engine coolant temp, once at operating temp you always get the same incoming charge temp and I can build my whole powertrain based on stability not ambient weather....

so with this new one, there's three rads (heat exchangers) out front all impacting the one behind.... quite pricey and which comes first

red hot air from the turbo on to the AC that now doesn't work but add yet more heat to and engine at melting point.... sounds like we need to rethink where we waist energy...

More commonly the chargecooler rads are in the front left and right lower corners behind the bumper leaving the area in front of the radiator and A/C condensor free.

Your way you end up with 90 degree air all the time - which is about double the maximum desirable for forced induction.

 

[Botus]

….yes I get that, but consistent. I wonder what the temp is under max abuse on a car running 1.2 bar

 

[Botus]

Now this is the biggest phalacy of chargecooler system myths, or simply brought about by people with poor installations. In a correctly designed chargecooler system, the whole point is, the water should always stay cool. That is the whole point of having a properly sized radiator, decent water volume and an efficient core. Think of it this way - you may have over 150 degrees Celsius of charge going through the chargecooler core, but this heat is being absorbed by water, which is four times more efficient at dissipating heat than air, known as 'Specific Heat Capacity'. As an experiment - fill a 'washing up bowl' of cold water, and plunge a scorching hot frying pan into it, until the pan is cool enough to touch (which will be a few seconds - hence why water is so good for cooling) - but likewise, now feel the temperature of the water in the bowl - you will hardly feel a significant difference from the original water temperature - even though it has absorbed all that heat - now lets imagine we can add an extra reservoir connected to that bowl, and a pump, with a radiator extracting any extra heat that was gained in the water, and what do you have? Cool water, always. Continuously....It would only heat up if you continuously plunged more red hot frying pans into it and the radiator system couldn't keep up...


https://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index.php?main_page=page&id=11

so 90 would still be a big win.... (which is why I thought they did it.... actually probably from trucks... as tractor engines run cooler to start with or are we saying they do separate charge cooler systems too ???)

 

[Luke Parsons]

Cheers for the help guys I really appreciate it

 

[LostKiwi]

Now this is the biggest phalacy of chargecooler system myths, or simply brought about by people with poor installations. In a correctly designed chargecooler system, the whole point is, the water should always stay cool. That is the whole point of having a properly sized radiator, decent water volume and an efficient core. Think of it this way - you may have over 150 degrees Celsius of charge going through the chargecooler core, but this heat is being absorbed by water, which is four times more efficient at dissipating heat than air, known as 'Specific Heat Capacity'. As an experiment - fill a 'washing up bowl' of cold water, and plunge a scorching hot frying pan into it, until the pan is cool enough to touch (which will be a few seconds - hence why water is so good for cooling) - but likewise, now feel the temperature of the water in the bowl - you will hardly feel a significant difference from the original water temperature - even though it has absorbed all that heat - now lets imagine we can add an extra reservoir connected to that bowl, and a pump, with a radiator extracting any extra heat that was gained in the water, and what do you have? Cool water, always. Continuously....It would only heat up if you continuously plunged more red hot frying pans into it and the radiator system couldn't keep up...


https://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index.php?main_page=page&id=11

so 90 would still be a big win.... (which is why I thought they did it.... actually probably from trucks... as tractor engines run cooler to start with or are we saying they do separate charge cooler systems too ???)

Given my Smart which is running 1.5 bar never sees inlet charge temperatures beyond 60 degrees I'd say 90 is a major fail! And I'm only running an intercooler. The guys with Brabuses (same boost pressure) typically see 50 degrees (they use chargecoolers).
The major thing is that I can get mine to vary between 30 and 60 depending how I'm driving. Theirs on the other hand run 30-50 with much more gradual transitions.
In either case 90 would be a fail.

 

[Luke Parsons]

But just to clarify does the ‘charge cooler’ just need to be full at all times ? And would this effect the launch control ?

 

[Botus]

But just to clarify does the ‘charge cooler’ just need to be full at all times ? And would this effect the launch control ?

they give you a handbook, I expect it has a max min that's temp dependant... its a cooling system, why would it be any different to the engine cooling system? no doubt has antifreeze too

re. launch control, I would expect so, if it can't control the charge temp the way it wants, it would be very silly to then let a driver give max attack, something nasty might happen... looking how grubby it looks from that pic, its not in the first flush of youth and you'll need 6k to sort it, would be best to change the oil and drive it sensibly.... Its only there to let the journalist get excited and write a good review... you're not supposed to be stupid enough to use it on your own car... the clutch will let go at the very least.

 

[LostKiwi]

I would expect so, if it can't control the charge temp the way it wants, it would be very silly to then let a driver give max attack, something nasty might happen

You need some expansion space but it should be near full. There should be a level marked on the tank (or in the owners manual).
If charge temperatures are too high the car will wind back the performance to protect itself. Excess charge temperatures can lead to detonation and that can get very expensive.

 

[Luke Parsons]

Well it’s not overheating at all if anything it is doing the opposite and keeping it at the 40-60 range in comfort mode and then 80-90 in sport mode which I guess is about right for the different modes