additives

[gbv]

Merc E Class 2.2 cdi auto saloon 2002, 110k miles.

Any experience/benefits of using Oil Flush, Oil Additive and Diesel Additive - for obtaining all the suggested benefits. I am particularly interested in obtaining a good economy - having done everything else (tyre pressures, remove junk from car, no severe accel/braking, planning ahead, no high speed etc etc).
Have heard a lot about Forte Additives from various professionals who swear by its benefits.
What is YOUR experience of these products?
Would you recommend a Oil Flush ???
I am also told various additives are gimmicks - but Forte products are genuinely very effective and represent v good value for money.... Any comments ??

 

[television]

If there are any benefits, surely the oil companies would include them

 

[peterwhayward]

If there are any benefits, surely the oil companies would include them

As I've said before my neighbour drives a "shell" tanker and assures me they do put more and better additives in their fuels than say the likes of tesco etc. So maybe they allready do.

 

[jberks]

Oil additives are already in the better oils - so stick with Mobil1 or equivalent.
Oil flush will help clear galleries but if you've always changed the oil on time with decent quality oil, chances are it won't do much. On the flip side, I've heard of flushes doing harm as they cause 'clots' to shift and cause oil starvation. It would have to be pretty bad though.
Fuel wise, as Peter says, fuel companies add stuff in. All fuel starts the same, it's the cocktail of additives that makes the difference between Tesco, Shell and Optimax etc.
Personally I run on Sainsburys with Millers additive (its cheaper), but super fuels will be pretty similar i imagine.

 

[yorkshire1]

benefits

Im sure diesel additives have their place whether as ecoinomy improvers or in a beneficial way for the pump/engine, as it is a well known fact within the diesel repair industry that many more problems have arisen with the removal or sulfur from fuel and as a previous poster mentioned some suppliers add different additive packages to their base fuel, and shell/texaco have two grades of diesel fuel at the pumps, allegedly the higher grade guarantees better economy

So I would say the with the lower grade fuels the right additives will probably improve economy/ mechanical life but you would have to work out whether their cost is outweighed by the improvements you want

 

[brandwooddixon]

I must admit that I just tend to stick with using branded, standard grade fuel and use a one shot fuel treatment to help with cleaning the injectors and fuel system occaisionally.

At one time Texaco was pretty good for economy.

As stated most additives are present in the higher grades of oil and fuel anyway.

I've never been a big fan of engine flush due to the reasons given, plus you'll be running your engine with a thinner grade of oil than it was designed to, admittedly not for long, but I wonder how much damage is caused in that time.

As with all things though you'd need to test them over a long time to see if there is any benefit.

 

[Martin Jennings]

I always stick to mainstream garages i.e. Shell, BP, Esso etc and use Millers diesel additive every 3rd tank or so with good results. The pros and cons of fuel brands have been done to death on here so I won't start that again! This is purely my experience of it. (usual disclaimers apply)

 

[MechPhil]

First off, I think it's advisable to determine your current fuel economy, and then to find out whether what you expect to achieve with all of these additives is at all reasonably possible.

I will state for the record that I believe 99% of oil additives to be gimmicks. If they promise improved economy, when added to for argument's sake Mobil 1, compared to the same car using pure Mobil 1, without any negative side effects, the manufacturers are blatantly lying. If it were at all possible, Castrol would add it to their oil at the factory, and they could then legaly claim a fuel economy advantage over other oils. It stands to reason that, in today's economy, an oil that can verifyably ensure improved fuel consumption would sell like hotcakes!

So why don't Mobil, Castrol, Elf or Shell do this? Simple: they do!! All motor oils contain additives. Chemical en mechanical engineers continually research and improve both the actual additives and the ratios of additive "cocktails" added to oils. That's why each brand of oil comes in so many variants. Each variant is specifically formulated to perform certain tasks, and like all things in life, additives work on a compromise principle. Adding more detergent may negatively influence lubricity, and adding more flocculants may negatively influence anti-foaming properties, etc.

So adding an additive that turns your oil into "a super-lubricant" that reduces friction to such a degree that you can see definate fuel economy advantages may (and will definately) negatively affect some of the other engineered properties of the oil.

On the flush front: I quite like using engine flush. Specifically on Toyota engines that tend to sludge up. But I can concieve the possible disasters one hears surrounding the use of engine flush, and as stated above, if you use good quality oil, correctly specced for your engine and change it at the correct intervals, flushing becomes redundant. (Specially since MB diesels don't turn their oil to grease).

Phil

 

[wireman]

My preferred engine flush is an oil change with lower cost (asda/tesco/etc) correct grade oil, no filter change and run it for a hundred or two miles then do a proper oil & filter change. The effects of this on blackening of the new oil are not much on my indirect 602 engines but in her direct injection rover it is marked, the oil does not blacken until 2000+ miles have passed.

My fuel economy improved when I undertook advanced driver training.

 

[oigle]

First off, I think it's advisable to determine your current fuel economy, and then to find out whether what you expect to achieve with all of these additives is at all reasonably possible.

I will state for the record that I believe 99% of oil additives to be gimmicks. If they promise improved economy, when added to for argument's sake Mobil 1, compared to the same car using pure Mobil 1, without any negative side effects, the manufacturers are blatantly lying. If it were at all possible, Castrol would add it to their oil at the factory, and they could then legaly claim a fuel economy advantage over other oils. It stands to reason that, in today's economy, an oil that can verifyably ensure improved fuel consumption would sell like hotcakes!

So why don't Mobil, Castrol, Elf or Shell do this? Simple: they do!! All motor oils contain additives. Chemical en mechanical engineers continually research and improve both the actual additives and the ratios of additive "cocktails" added to oils. That's why each brand of oil comes in so many variants. Each variant is specifically formulated to perform certain tasks, and like all things in life, additives work on a compromise principle. Adding more detergent may negatively influence lubricity, and adding more flocculants may negatively influence anti-foaming properties, etc.

So adding an additive that turns your oil into "a super-lubricant" that reduces friction to such a degree that you can see definate fuel economy advantages may (and will definately) negatively affect some of the other engineered properties of the oil.

On the flush front: I quite like using engine flush. Specifically on Toyota engines that tend to sludge up. But I can concieve the possible disasters one hears surrounding the use of engine flush, and as stated above, if you use good quality oil, correctly specced for your engine and change it at the correct intervals, flushing becomes redundant. (Specially since MB diesels don't turn their oil to grease).

Phil

Pretty much spot on Phil. I worked for an oil company for a number of years and was privy to how oils were formulated etc.
Properly specced oil, fit for purpose, along with sensible oil change periods and you can do no more.
I do not advocate flushing oils generally unless one comes across a motor that has been abused in the sense of extended change periods which resulted in sludging. Much better to change oils more often - the cost is minimal compared to the potential damage that can be caused by extending the periods.
I saw a rather professional report from the US where Mobil 1 was tested under various usages and, of all things, the biggest problem was caused by changing oil filters - easy to get some dirt into the system when removing them. Filters are changed too regularly in my view - they can last for many miles with no problems. Manufacturers, of course, will say "change them" but I'm afraid there is a commercial reason for that - they sell the filters!!
When I worked for Shell, X100 oils had just been introduced. All other oil companies, at that stage, sold non detergent/dispersant oils. Shell was having trouble convincing people that their new oil was any good as it got "dirty" very quickly compared to others - natural enough as it was cleaning the internals. They put a trial in place with Sydney taxis. Asked them to use the X100 and change the oil every 6000 miles as per Ford specs but NOT to change the filter for a year. The taxis averaged 90000 miles in the year and were then taken off the road, engines etc removed and stripped. One of the findings was that the oil filter was only about half full of detritus and could have gone for much longer. The motors were, of course, like new inside, compared to the filthy engines that ran on the likes of Castrol in those days.

 

[yorkshire1]

Pretty much spot on Phil. I worked for an oil company for a number of years and was privy to how oils were formulated etc.
Properly specced oil, fit for purpose, along with sensible oil change periods and you can do no more.
I do not advocate flushing oils generally unless one comes across a motor that has been abused in the sense of extended change periods which resulted in sludging. Much better to change oils more often - the cost is minimal compared to the potential damage that can be caused by extending the periods.
I saw a rather professional report from the US where Mobil 1 was tested under various usages and, of all things, the biggest problem was caused by changing oil filters - easy to get some dirt into the system when removing them. Filters are changed too regularly in my view - they can last for many miles with no problems. Manufacturers, of course, will say "change them" but I'm afraid there is a commercial reason for that - they sell the filters!!
When I worked for Shell, X100 oils had just been introduced. All other oil companies, at that stage, sold non detergent/dispersant oils. Shell was having trouble convincing people that their new oil was any good as it got "dirty" very quickly compared to others - natural enough as it was cleaning the internals. They put a trial in place with Sydney taxis. Asked them to use the X100 and change the oil every 6000 miles as per Ford specs but NOT to change the filter for a year. The taxis averaged 90000 miles in the year and were then taken off the road, engines etc removed and stripped. One of the findings was that the oil filter was only about half full of detritus and could have gone for much longer. The motors were, of course, like new inside, compared to the filthy engines that ran on the likes of Castrol in those days.

Interesting take on filter change intervals, I had a 4,2 landcruiser for 15 years and changed the oil (15/40) every 5000 miles, it never changed colour from day1 until when it was changed presumably due to good compression/ring fit,itd done 340,000 miles by the time i sold it!! couldve saved a fortune on filters!!!

I presume the filters are there mainly to catch stray metallic particles then,and is the carbon suspension from blowby etc generally small enough to pass through the filter material, so unless your engine oil gets as black as night, no harms done

Saying that I know older VW beetles didnt have oil filters as we know them just a metal gauze

I must say Ive never been a big fan of filling the fuel filters before refitting unless youre absolutely sure the fuels clean