ANPR parking systems

dry run

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Hi,

Does anyone know anything about ANPR car parking systems? Here's why I ask: -

On Dec 18th I visited B&Q to purchase good on my trade account. I was in the car park for no more than 10 minutes. Later in the day, I realised I needed some more things from B&Q and went back to purchase them. Again I was there about 10 minutes.

In early January, I got a "parking charge notice" from Premier Park saying that I had overstayed the 2 hour parking limit and charging me £100. They enclosed two photos showing me entering the car park at 09:42 and then exiting at 13:52.

Ah I thought, simple mistake they have taken my first visit entry and my second visit exit and drawn the wrong conclusion - so I appealed. Fat lot of good that did as they are adamant that their system could not have got it wrong - and rejected my appeal.

But their system HAS got it wrong as I know my car was being used by me elsewhere during that time (I have wintesses for this). I'm not too concerened as I'm happy to go to court (should it come to that), but wondered if anyone here had any knowledge of these systems and how they could have got this wrong?

Regards

Steve
 

EmilysDad

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Sorry, no. But this kind of thing has been in the press before.
 

rf065

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Yes, parking companies are no more than extortionists, they know very well what really happened but look on you as a soft touch. Tell them you'll see them in court.

Russ
 

keefysher

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Did you supply evidence of your 2 purchases in the form of receipts against your account that will have been time stamped at some point?

Did you challenge them to provide the evidence of your first exit and second entry as the receipts you have?

Have you contacted B&Q directly and complain how they treat a valued trade customer? Why are you still buying from them, and your trade mates?

Was your vehicle noticeably dirtier in the 2 images as that time of year the roads are probably caked in carp? Was it riding at a different height if it were loaded or unloaded? Was there anything different on the roof rack?

Have you asked them to show any losses incurred by either them or B&Q are to the value of the ticket issued?

What is their procedure to contest the decision? Is there an ombudsman you have right of appeal to?
 

LostKiwi

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I suspect the shyster parking enforcement company is trying it on.
 

M80

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They are agents for B&Q, to control parking abuse, in theory.
You are taken to court and defend successfully, and then ask about expenses to find there is little consideration for those, not your time and lost work because of anyway.

I've started referring my efforts to an agent of my own. They will raise an invoice, to me, for their efforts on my behalf. Those out of pocket expenses now have a chance of being compensated for.

The abusers of this world with bugger all to lose continually win by using their bullying style, and the County Courts don't attempt to penalise them for their 'mistakes'.
I am aware that recent legislation is having a go at these parking companies

I'm not saying the agent I use is my own limited company, but it might be.

Feel free to discuss.
 

ajlsl600

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same thing happens at motorway cafe,stops ..yr only supposed to stay long enough to get wrung out over lunch,then yr not welcome.. had the same story at lea delamere M4 some yrs ago whilst waiting for job interview ,fortunatly got the job and company paid fine.
from there on i organsed my travel such that i only EVER stop at motorway stops for a pee . i not yet known for 2 hr pee,s however thanks for heads up on BandQ story ,tho in our home town there is also pizza hut on same car park so would not be surprised if same story applied
 

keefysher

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They are agents for B&Q, to control parking abuse, in theory.
You are taken to court and defend successfully, and then ask about expenses to find there is little consideration for those, not your time and lost work because of anyway.

I've started referring my efforts to an agent of my own. They will raise an invoice, to me, for their efforts on my behalf. Those out of pocket expenses now have a chance of being compensated for.

The abusers of this world with bugger all to lose continually win by using their bullying style, and the County Courts don't attempt to penalise them for their 'mistakes'.
I am aware that recent legislation is having a go at these parking companies

I'm not saying the agent I use is my own limited company, but it might be.

Feel free to discuss.

Be careful about raising invoices as you allude to, especially if you include a VAT element!!

I find it useful to produce a schedule of losses to the court, which in my case reflects my charge out rates per day or part thereof as per my normal business terms, travel and subsistence to attend court if not local, telephone charges, post etc . Normally focusses the minds of the stupid when it runs to 4 figures per day!!! All audited too.
 

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I had the same thing last year at a cineworld, the kids were at a midnight showing and when I picked them up at 3am, the limit was 10 minutes and I was half an hour. I got a £100 fine, so I went to Cineworld and saw the duty manager and explained how their agent was treating their customers. After that I got another 4 or 5 letters from the parking company escalating to court and I just ignored them and they eventually stopped coming. I can’t in good conscience recommend this , just in case, but it worked for me. These parking companies are all charlatans and I was advised that they have no legal recourse on private land after a court ruling in 2016 (which might be true, I suppose!).


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dry run

dry run

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Thanks for the responses guys. As I say I'm not that worried, jusy amazed that they would try it on"

Keyfysher - I didn't keep any receipts as I get an account statement and invoice by e-mail. Unforthunately, this only shows the total purchases in a day and not how many transactions make up that total. At the time I appealed, I hadn't received my statement.

M80 - good thought might think about that.

Steve
 

ajlsl600

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is it not a major ball ache to need to think on the ramifications of this kind of thing . parking!! life complicated enough . feel for you 100 a reasonable night out for you and yours and buxxer all to them being able to prove you did NOT do as you say should be down to THEM not you. do b and q not have any footage of the car park showing yr not there at any time when they say you were, if so go to court with that then clain plenty of reasonable expences, such as they same as they are trying to extort from you .plus any expences in attending court.
 

curious

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Another reason for fitting a dashcam?

The only problem with a dashcam is still having the footage when the demand unexpectedly arrives through the post days/weeks later.

(I got caught in a yellow grid box because somebody nipped in front of me diagonally from the adjacent lane grabbing the spot I was moving into. Didn't think at the time it was being recorded so didn't press the 'save' button on my dashcam. Nasty letter in the post some days later.)
 

Bluegrass

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Same thing happened to me at the local Mc Donald's. Went to drive through in the morning then gain in the afternoon.
Showed the ticket to the manager who gave me form to fill in and send it to them. On the form stated 2 locations I had been in between that day.
Got reply "on this occasion...." nonsense cancelling the ticket.As if they'd done me a favour.
 

keefysher

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Thanks for the responses guys. As I say I'm not that worried, jusy amazed that they would try it on"

Keyfysher - I didn't keep any receipts as I get an account statement and invoice by e-mail. Unforthunately, this only shows the total purchases in a day and not how many transactions make up that total. At the time I appealed, I hadn't received my statement.

M80 - good thought might think about that.

Steve

There will be a date stamp on the transactions within the metadata of B&Qs system. You are the customer, demand it. Next time you use the trade counter ask for a copy of the receipts. They have to have them under various compliance requirements. If you are still buying from them, which I wouldn't be after being scammed by their parking agent. Tell yer mates, get on social media tell all and sundry, Twat B&Q. These days online reputation is all, not customer service.

As earlier, be careful if you raise invoices with a VAT element. The one bunch you never ever annoy is the VAT man. **** off the tax man fine, not the VAT Man. First lesson of business :geek:
 

M80

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Not VAT registers, ditched that one years ago.
I became sick of being a Gov't agent back then and things have only gotten worse over the years.
 
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dry run

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Keyfysher - asked at the B&Q trade desk if they could check my purchases that day and told "no, contact the account company" (trade UK ). They said that they only got information from B&Q and to go back to them. B&Q eventually admittede they coud provide that info but only for 40 days. Guess what? now day 44. I will now contact B&Q head office to see if they will intervene.

To be honest, for the £100 fine it's not worth my time - but I guess that's what they rely on!

If I wasn't so certain they were wrong. I'd drop it and pay, but you know sometimes you have to make a stand!

Steve
 

M80

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The Courts being so self important don't like my attitude as they think it's up to us to act as adults and sort it between ourselves but more than a few times I've let the those on the offensive proceed with their action.
It is significant effort for them to take action, and dosh of course. To then defend is significant effort also but my view is that it is easier than always jumping through the hoops that the bullies expect of me.
The case may be dropped when the defence is raised.
Some times the bullies haven't followed protocol, the trouble here is that it takes experience to know the protocols and throw their error back at them. I'm sure websites can help though, if there is willingness to learn.

Very often all the bluster is bluff and it takes guts to face them off. Here though it seem to me that you have a strong case. Since your reasonable defence is that B&Q had the records that were able to prove that their agent had screwed up, they had a responsibility to ensure that the actions they had caused would be timely so that you could approach them for the evidence before it was lost.
You are using their car park they have mismanaged the whole thing.

I don't know the time allowed by B&Q but with masses of stock for people to view, kitchens to have designed, food and drink to be consumed it starts to look like they entice you to stay in their shop to be able to sting you for over staying.
 


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