ATF contaminated with coolant destroys autobox

[pathelo]

I have a 2002 CLK 320. I was experiencing problems with vibration and judder on gear change. I took my car into my local Mercedes workshop who found that the ATF was mixing with engine coolant due to a crack in the radiator/heat exchanger wich cools both the engine and the gearbox.

I have been told that they need to replace the radiator and flush the gearbox - total cost £995 ($1,600) but if as is likely the autobox is damaged they will need to replace the box and torque converter at an additional cost of £3,300 ($5,000).

I wondered if anybody is aware of a recognised design fault that might have caused this to happen as I would like to get Mercedes to contribute to the cost of repair. Even if it is some freak failure, I would have thought that in the case of a car that is just 6 months outside the wearranty period Mercedes should contribute to the cost of repair.

Any advice gratefully received!

 

[television]

This has happened many times and is a bad design fault. it is hard to know what they were thinking when they came up with that idea. Many will tell you what to do about it. the fault is down to them as there is nothing that you could have done to have caused this fault.


malcolm

 

[pathelo]

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to call the dealer tomorrow (who said they would talk to Mercedes Benz about some contribution towards the cost) and if anyone can give me a steer as to what I shuold say, I'd be grateful. By the way this car of mine, which cost £40k is a total lemon. I had problems with electric seats/morrors and rattles in the door and with the seat belt feeder when I bought it and the ABS is always failing. Worst of all, sometimes the car locks itself (and locks me out).

 

[television]

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to call the dealer tomorrow (who said they would talk to Mercedes Benz about some contribution towards the cost) and if anyone can give me a steer as to what I shuold say, I'd be grateful. By the way this car of mine, which cost £40k is a total lemon. I had problems with electric seats/morrors and rattles in the door and with the seat belt feeder when I bought it and the ABS is always failing. Worst of all, sometimes the car locks itself (and locks me out).

Jberks will come on in the morning and give you good advice.

malcolm

 

[pathelo]

Thanks for the advice. I'll log in again tomorrow. Good to know I'm not alone!

 

[Rory]

Firstly you should just ask nicely for MB to pay. Ask the dealer first, then ask MB yourself. Be firm but polite - they may just accept it and pay. I did this on a Renault that was 4 yrs old the dealer said no, I spoke to Renault and they agreed to pay in 15 mins (broken rear springs).

Assuming you're in the UK (the reference to $ confuses me):
Sale of Goods act might help you - things have to last a reasonable length of time. Reasonable can be a bit vague, but, for examples, it's generally considered to be 5 years for domestic appliances.
One problem with going down the SoG route, is that legal liability rests with the supplier who sold you the car. If you bought new, and the dealer is still in business, then that's fine - in any other circumstances it's less straightforward. See here: http://www.consumer.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

 

[pathelo]

Firstly you should just ask nicely for MB to pay. Ask the dealer first, then ask MB yourself. Be firm but polite - they may just accept it and pay. I did this on a Renault that was 4 yrs old the dealer said no, I spoke to Renault and they agreed to pay in 15 mins (broken rear springs).

Assuming you're in the UK (the reference to $ confuses me):
Sale of Goods act might help you - things have to last a reasonable length of time. Reasonable can be a bit vague, but, for examples, it's generally considered to be 5 years for domestic appliances.
One problem with going down the SoG route, is that legal liability rests with the supplier who sold you the car. If you bought new, and the dealer is still in business, then that's fine - in any other circumstances it's less straightforward. See here: http://www.consumer.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

Thanks for that. Well I did ask my dealer (nicely) if MB would pay. He said he would get back to me today but I am not optimistic as he's already told me the car is outside the warannty period (by 6 months) and therefore I'd have to pay.

I'll keep you posted.

It would be useful to know if there any precedences in the case of gearbox destruction due to coolant and ATF mixing. Still sounds like a design fault to me.

As an aside, I had a friend who had a 1995 BMW 328i from new. After 6 years and 95k miles the dealer told him the engine was burning excessive oil. which was a known fault with that engine and BMW replaced the whole engine free of charge! He didn't even have to ask.

 

[pathelo]

Just heard back from MB and they are not prepared to pay anything towards the cost of repair. I questioned if it was a known design fault on the new CLK and was told that they had not heard of it.

 

[Rory]

What's the history of the car - have you had it from new, dealer serviced etc?

Is the repair going ahead anyway?

Try talking to MB directly - tell them you're disappointed etc etc, but without getting emotional. Always difficult to know how best to handle these things but I wouldn't say things (at this stage) like the cars is 'a total lemon'.

May be worth talking to your local trading standards people, unless you have a pet solicitor on hand.

 

[pathelo]

I've had the car from new. It's 3.5 years old. I've always had it serviced by Mercedes. The reason they didn't want to contribute is the mileage (115k). What nobody will ever know is whether the fault developed while the car was in warranty or after it ran out last October. The virbation has been getting worse over the past few months (I first reported it back in March) and the crack may presumably have happened some time before that.

As strange as it sounds I cannot see customer service contact details on the Mercedes Benz web site!

 

[pathelo]

I haven't gone ahead with the repair yet, due to the cost and unaffordibility.

 

[Rory]

Could this be considered to be a mileage related fault? I don't know, but I wouldn't have thought that this was a 'wearing' part?

On the MB website,cContact details are at Passenger cars > Purchase tools (top right). Phone 00800 1777 7777.

 

[pathelo]

Could this be considered to be a mileage related fault? I don't know, but I wouldn't have thought that this was a 'wearing' part?

On the MB website,cContact details are at Passenger cars > Purchase tools (top right). Phone 00800 1777 7777.

Exactly. I'll give them a call and see what the response is. There is another thread here and the unfortunate owner had the same problem on the same model after 2 years and 30k miles!

 

[dougtsc]

Email Address is:

CustomerService.UK@cac.DaimlerChrysler.com

I sent them an email about a catalytic converter breaking up after only 4 years and received a very quick reply which eventually led to Mercedes paying 50%.

Full address is as below.....don't know why they are in Holland ?

Customer Service
DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center N.V.
Gaetano Martinolaan 10
NL-6229 GS Maastricht, The Netherlands

Phone Nr: 00800 1 777 7777

Best Regards
Doug

 

[pathelo]

Well, I rang 00800 177 7777 yesterday and spoke to a nice lady called Dominique who took all the details and said she'd need to speak to the dealer for information but would hope to have a decision early next week. She has emphasised that she can't make any promises as to whether there will be any goodwill coming in my direction. I'll let you know what they say.

Later I rang my dealer back to say they would be calling. In fact they had already done so by the time I called. What I discovered though from Dave, the service guy I have been dealing with, is that when they approach Mercedes Benz about thes sorts of things, the do so via computer i.e. there is no human contact! I was surprised about this as there is nothing better than one human to another in disputes like this. Going the extra mile to 'fight my corner' is all part of customer service in my opinion and I am disappointed that the whole thing is automated . They just don't seem to want the hassle.

If nothing comes of this I'll write - thanks for the address.

 

[Blobcat]

Well, I rang 00800 177 7777 yesterday and spoke to a nice lady called Dominique who took all the details and said she'd need to speak to the dealer for information but would hope to have a decision early next week. She has emphasised that she can't make any promises as to whether there will be any goodwill coming in my direction. I'll let you know what they say.

Later I rang my dealer back to say they would be calling. In fact they had already done so by the time I called. What I discovered though from Dave, the service guy I have been dealing with, is that when they approach Mercedes Benz about thes sorts of things, the do so via computer i.e. there is no human contact! I was surprised about this as there is nothing better than one human to another in disputes like this. Going the extra mile to 'fight my corner' is all part of customer service in my opinion and I am disappointed that the whole thing is automated . They just don't seem to want the hassle.

If nothing comes of this I'll write - thanks for the address.

They probably automated it as they did not have enough people to answer all the calls from the dealers

 

[Rory]

What I discovered though from Dave, the service guy I have been dealing with, is that when they approach Mercedes Benz about thes sorts of things, the do so via computer i.e. there is no human contact!

This was the same situation with my wife's Renault. Both rear springs had broken - I asked the dealer if Renault would pay, and was quite surprised that they bashed away at a keyboard and said 'Computer says no'.
What alerted me to this being a common issue was that the dealer blabbed that they had 10 rear springs in stock. When I called Renault I ever so gently suggested that they should replace the springs FOC otherwise I would take the matter further and they may not want to recall *every* Clio in Europe to replace their rear springs!

 

[Uncle Benz]

I am concerned about this problem. I have a 2003 C32 AMG which at the moment only has 25000 miles under its belt. A lot of the US sites have been talking about "glycol contamination" in auto box. Apparently only the Valeo rads are affected but I have not seen an alternative make fitted. I would gladly replace my rad if an alternative was available. When I spoke to my local dealer they said they have never heard of the problem. Are they lying???? Would it be acceptable to fit a seperate transmission cooler?? Does putting the cooler in the rad act as a pre-warmer as well??? Please would one of the very kind and experienced techs advise me. Thanx

See here

http://www.amgpower.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=1628

 

[panason1c]

Would it be acceptable to fit a seperate transmission cooler?

The tranny oil cooler radiator on my 2002 ML is a relatively compact 'stand alone' unit situated below and in front of the coolant radiator......might be worth 'modifying yours using an ML trans' cooler?

 

[pathelo]

The computer says no

Got a call back from Customer Services today. MB are not prepared to pay one penny towards the cost of this repair. I am disappointed and will have to pay up but will still write a letter to see if they will have a change of heart. All those with CLKs, be warned!