Blue Badge Fraud

[stwat]

And here's me thinking it was going to be about fake Mercedes bonnet badges

 

[C180 Chris]

Your right I should have put BLUE BADGE FRAUD in another colour for those whose sight is .......drivel

You should have put Blue Badge Fraud in another thread more like!!
I see you're still at it........"If you had the extreme misfortune to know him..." If i had the extreme misfortune to know who, i thought this was about Blue Badges!
This is a one man mission against a guy who as far as i know may well deserve it OR not, he may have slept with your wife or something. I honestly don't care even if he has, or if he is the sweetest nicest little chappie in the world. If i had seen a thread called "The nasty man i know who has a better car than me and is fat yet still manages to .....with my Wife twice a day ....you get the idea" I doubt i would have responded to it. What i saw was a thread about Blue Badge Fraud, a subject i feel strongly about as i think far too many people get away with it. Then i read a first post that was almost all about some fat, rich twart who by the way you seem to feel about him must have done you a major wrong in the not too distant past.....I couldn't care less fella, tell me about the hard evidence you have that he has a dodgy Blue Badge, or tell me about what you caught him doing with your pet snake, but get the title correct and stay as close to the topic as possible (at least in the first couple of posts man.) Make another thread about him, i may even read it now!
It's like me making a thread called "My W140" Then going on to talk almost entirely about my Ford Escort Estate.....come on chap!

 

[C180 Chris]

I'm confused? Blue badge?

Are you griping because this gentleman drives a Ford?

No, his problem is with a guy he hates and feels the need to tell us all about, but as he thinks that we won't care he has called the thread another name....All about Blue Disabled Permit Badges and if the are being fraudulently used (actually a subject that i would not mind discussing and though i was going to when i clicked on his thread)


....I know, it has headwrecked me too.

 

[Naraic]

Shhhh - it's gone quiet........

...you think?

 

[cleverdicky]

Actually i hate to agree with the problem in general. On a couple of levels. Fat people are fat for one reason. What ever their lifestyle they eat more than their bodies need. Whether a disability forces a constrained lifestyle, or just lazy. Its excess calories that makes you fat. But does being fat alone entitle someone to gaining the disabled status.

A flat i had once in 'town' had very limited parking, but right underneath had 2 disabled bays. I often use to see people park up, whip out the badges, easily get out of the car and trot off to do their shopping, with out any struggle or impairment.

I do know the hoops to get one of these things now. But we're really talking here about the judgments and rewards for being disabled, that many dont realise, compared to humble out of work benefits, can amount to substantial differences. And why fraud is rife. And the merits of ticking those boxes is worth it to many who cant or wont work. To many not working, whether lazy or just overweight generally, ticking the box means a far better payout and some might say privileged than not disabled. It truly does cost the country substantial amounts, whether genuine or not. And i do know a few career scroungers that in a lifetime not working have done well with free living & a good lifestyle compared to some who choose to make an honest living working.

In my mind classification is too complex. To me it should be. -
If someone that has 4 limbs that work, and no illness that impairs judgment or ability. They work. No disability disability benefits of any kind.

Less than 4 limbs or an illness, then they get a choice and incremental support and do some work.
But ban all automatic right to a state paid lifestyle and that includes blue badges, as with free or supported housing costs, council tax and mobility schemes.

And if anyone would like a detailed write up and my experience looking after an elderly lady relative following a bad stroke who cannot walk 10 feet unaided and also suffers with incontinence please ask. Especially regarding car seat and carpet cleaning tips, when there have been no empty bays near to any public loos.

 

[drmw]

Fat people are fat for one reason. What ever their lifestyle they eat more than their bodies need.

nonsense - http://www.thebls.com/

 

[Alex M Grieve]

nonsense - http://www.thebls.com/

In answer to the question "what is lymphoedema" though David, the fact is that it is unusual, except when affecting a specific area of the body, for example women's arms when the lymph nodes have been removed from the armpit at breast surgery.

Generalized lymphoedema of the whole body is not going to happen, or not going to happen for long, so I support Cleverdicky's hypothesis that excess food leads to excess weight. (and I am perhaps a fine example of this myself!).

By and large anything done to you, in the form of massaging or other therapies, is not going to reduce obesity. Anything done by you , such as dietary restraint or exercise will.

 

[cleverdicky]

nonsense - http://www.thebls.com/

HaHa thats only for localised swelling. Not the whole body. You can do better than that. Surly?

Sure there might be 'some' with that. Are saying all of them ?

Check this out http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/obesity.html

And one for the trolls to moan about for what seems a very un pc summary (only women though ?) http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fat_disabled_women

 

[drmw]

In answer to the question "what is lymphoedema" though David, the fact is that it is unusual, except when affecting a specific area of the body, for example women's arms when the lymph nodes have been removed from the armpit at breast surgery.

Generalized lymphoedema of the whole body is not going to happen, or not going to happen for long, so I support Cleverdicky's hypothesis that excess food leads to excess weight. (and I am perhaps a fine example of this myself!).

By and large anything done to you, in the form of massaging or other therapies, is not going to reduce obesity. Anything done by you , such as dietary restraint or exercise will.

Alex -you are the clinician - all points accepted (although the incidence of lymphoedema is, I have been told, increasing disproportionately)

I do however have an aversion to sweeping generalisations, particularly when based on physical appearances - my point was simply to highlight that although someone may appear "obese", there can be other causal factors.

The blue badge system is rife with abuse - no debate on that.

Due to my own late son's condition, we had such a badge (orange in those days) for the decade when he was wheelchair bound. I have countless first hand experiences of the frustration when someone appearing able bodied but armed with a blue badge takes a designated parking space so we then could not stop.

The system does need revision

 

[drmw]

HaHa thats only for localised swelling. Not the whole body. You can do better than that. Surly?

A somewhat Freudian slip ?

 

[C180 Chris]

Actually i hate to agree with the problem in general. On a couple of levels. Fat people are fat for one reason. What ever their lifestyle they eat more than their bodies need. Whether a disability forces a constrained lifestyle, or just lazy. Its excess calories that makes you fat. But does being fat alone entitle someone to gaining the disabled status.

A flat i had once in 'town' had very limited parking, but right underneath had 2 disabled bays. I often use to see people park up, whip out the badges, easily get out of the car and trot off to do their shopping, with out any struggle or impairment.

I do know the hoops to get one of these things now. But we're really talking here about the judgments and rewards for being disabled, that many dont realise, compared to humble out of work benefits, can amount to substantial differences. And why fraud is rife. And the merits of ticking those boxes is worth it to many who cant or wont work. To many not working, whether lazy or just overweight generally, ticking the box means a far better payout and some might say privileged than not disabled. It truly does cost the country substantial amounts, whether genuine or not. And i do know a few career scroungers that in a lifetime not working have done well with free living & a good lifestyle compared to some who choose to make an honest living working.

In my mind classification is too complex. To me it should be. -
If someone that has 4 limbs that work, and no illness that impairs judgment or ability. They work. No disability disability benefits of any kind.

Less than 4 limbs or an illness, then they get a choice and incremental support and do some work.
But ban all automatic right to a state paid lifestyle and that includes blue badges, as with free or supported housing costs, council tax and mobility scheme

Indeed, i have seen so many people parking on double yellow lines and pulling out a blue badge, drives me mad!
Years ago, if you were disabled and needed a mobility car, you used to get an INVACAR, these were great little three wheeled cars that had the proper controls for a disabled person to use. The only people that i ever saw driving these cars were genuine disabled people, indeed it would have stood out like a sore thumb if you had seen an Invacar pull up and a person with no apparent disability get out. It was no doubt a money saving scheme that was introduced to use normal cars instead of these purpose built ones, but it seemed that the criteria for getting a car changed at the same time, and all of a sudden it seemed that you did not need to have a major disability to get a car.
The problem as i see it is that if you tell a person who is too fat or too thin or too anything, that they can have a car for free, they will take it, cars are a major purchase and cost a fortune to run, so if you say to a person...we will give you a car and pay for it...odds on they will say thank you very much!
I would make it so that any genuine disabled person got a car, but the rest had to make their own arrangements....As it always was in fact. This would mean a root and branch re organisation of the whole disability gig, but it would get rid of the people who are abusing the system and costing US a fortune.





If i offered you one of these two cars for free, which would you choose?
Now i would say ....If you are disabled and need transport i will give you this blue car so that you can get about for free and i will pay for its upkeep, would you take it if you didn't really need it? In so doing i am living up to my promise to look after the real disabled people, who would be happy to have a FREE method of transport, but i could not imagine too many freeloaders jumping in for one. ( it would no doubt need a re design as this is a 60's or 70's design, but it will still chop the costs for disabled cars massively.
This is the sort of conversation that i though i would be getting myself into when i first replied to the thread, instead i found a personal vendetta against some lazy, fat, possibly wife pinching, snake bothering twart which the O/P wanted to have a free go at, where he would never know and could not defend himself!

 

[television]

I was not going to reply, but I have my own views on obesity.

I can remember the war years very well, the thing is there were not many if any overweight people around then. I think the same goes up to the 50's.

No I cannot comment on all cases, but the majority are overweight because they keep putting food in their mouths.

We have lots of info in the media these days, about the damage and the years it can take from you. Some hospitals refuse to operate till some weight has been lost, are they wrong to do so ??.

I do my best in life using by keeping as fit as possible on the menu side side. Just walking from the shops to my house all up a steep hill with 4 litres of milk takes its toll on me, and I think "I wonder what is like to have the equivalent of 8 litres strapped around you waist for life"

Many of us do have the thing "choice" built in us, no other species has that..

Yes Lilian has a Blue badge, but on mental grounds for some days you can hardly get here walk at all.

I do hope that I have not offended anyone,,, that is just the way I feel about it, yes the are some poor folk tied to a wheel chair for life, and that must be the hardest thing in the world to try and control your weight

 

[Naraic]

Indeed, i have seen so many people parking on double yellow lines and pulling out a blue badge, drives me mad!
Years ago, if you were disabled and needed a mobility car, you used to get an INVACAR, these were great little three wheeled cars that had the proper controls for a disabled person to use. The only people that i ever saw driving these cars were genuine disabled people, indeed it would have stood out like a sore thumb if you had seen an Invacar pull up and a person with no apparent disability get out. It was no doubt a money saving scheme that was introduced to use normal cars instead of these purpose built ones, but it seemed that the criteria for getting a car changed at the same time, and all of a sudden it seemed that you did not need to have a major disability to get a car.
The problem as i see it is that if you tell a person who is too fat or too thin or too anything, that they can have a car for free, they will take it, cars are a major purchase and cost a fortune to run, so if you say to a person...we will give you a car and pay for it...odds on they will say thank you very much!
I would make it so that any genuine disabled person got a car, but the rest had to make their own arrangements....As it always was in fact. This would mean a root and branch re organisation of the whole disability gig, but it would get rid of the people who are abusing the system and costing US a fortune.

View attachment 17466

View attachment 17467

If i offered you one of these two cars for free, which would you choose?
Now i would say ....If you are disabled and need transport i will give you this blue car so that you can get about for free and i will pay for its upkeep, would you take it if you didn't really need it? In so doing i am living up to my promise to look after the real disabled people, who would be happy to have a FREE method of transport, but i could not imagine too many freeloaders jumping in for one. ( it would no doubt need a re design as this is a 60's or 70's design, but it will still chop the costs for disabled cars massively.
This is the sort of conversation that i though i would be getting myself into when i first replied to the thread, instead i found a personal vendetta against some lazy, fat, possibly wife pinching, snake bothering twart which the O/P wanted to have a free go at, where he would never know and could not defend himself!

The problem with Invacars was that they were self driven by the disabled. that presumed that the disabled person had a driving licence, and that the disability allowed them the ability to drive. But the Motability scheme (for that is what we are talking about) allows a qualifying person to have a car to drive/be driven in...so no need for a licence, and no need to be fit enough to drive.

My SIL qualified due to severe illness (but died before she could avail of it). She was severely immobile and ill...an Invacar would have been useless in this case.

Diabetics can be obese...through no fault of their own.

 

[cleverdicky]

Well there is a genuine case for carers needing to drive a disabled person that doesnt require special adaptions. So a normal car makes sense in that regard.

I forgot to mention a mate i worked with on commercial and industrial air conditioning that had only one arm. Not only did he work but did a better job than most of us normals. Refused to even have an adaption in the stock work van, but even scarier he still used to lug a full dumpy (gas cylinder) up a ladder on to roofs. Woe betide if you offered to help. Ive no idea if he claimed any benefit or support, no one would dare ask. But i very much doubt it.

And the same goes to all those 'poor' disabled soldiers. Both physically and mentally injured. Some even cant get decent adaptions or housing. wtf!
Because they persevere to strive or aspire with their impairment, they dont qualify for the help or support these usless or just fat scroungers get instead.

But i myself did once try and claim when i couldnt work. Years suffering with a bad back after an accident moving a horse trailer and barely able to walk with not a shred of help. I had to crawl out of A&E on my hands and knees in screaming agony for my taxi home, as i couldnt stand, never mind walk. When after years i eventually got a professional diagnosis and found that years of graft had also taken its toll. Yet couldnt get any sympathy never mind help after being laid off work when they could no longer tolerate my inability to move heavy machinery. Only taking 2 years rest and my own daily physio and inversion therapy can i now walk and move about virtually pain free. But the damage is done.

It seems those determined to abuse the system still manage to for whatever reason.

 

[C180 Chris]

The problem with Invacars was that they were self driven by the disabled. that presumed that the disabled person had a driving licence, and that the disability allowed them the ability to drive. But the Motability scheme (for that is what we are talking about) allows a qualifying person to have a car to drive/be driven in...so no need for a licence, and no need to be fit enough to drive.

My SIL qualified due to severe illness (but died before she could avail of it). She was severely immobile and ill...an Invacar would have been useless in this case.

Diabetics can be obese...through no fault of their own.

Indeed, As i said, a re design would be needed..maybe a two seat four wheeled version........never convinced of the three wheel idea anyway

As you say, diabetics can be obese through no fault of their own....no problem if you need a car, then you get one...but it has to be a standard design and it should be recognisable as what it is ..a free car to get a disabled person about. I feel that if i needed a free car, i would be happy to take one of any design, if i want more, then i can buy a Rolls Royce myself and have it adapted at my own cost. Like the old NHS glasses, they were a standard design, if you wanted dolce whatever ones....get your wallet out!

We do not need to stop disabled people from getting help, god it is hard enough for them as it is having to suffer ill health. We do need to stop abuse in the system though, as well as making the cost that we pay go down it would improve the deal that the real disabled people get from the system.

I would fight against anything that takes away help from real genuine cases.

 

[television]

Just clearing one little point, diabetics are not overweight through their diabetes, it is the overweight that gives you more chance of getting diabetes in the first place, or just another side effect from being overweight.

 

[d215yq]

Sadly we hear a lot about conditions, low metabolisms, etc but the fact is that you can't create fat (a source of energy) out of nothing.

The human body cannot create fat out of nothing, so if obese people did not eat much then they would eventually become thin. Sure some conditions and metabolisms create more fat per pound of food eaten than others, but that just means they should eat less.

 

[C180 Chris]

Maybe not initially, but if they have reduced mobility, then weight gain could be a problem.

I am not sure why, but overweight people seem to fall in for a fair bit of "stick"
If we cleared up the abuse in the system we would have no reason left to hate the overweight anymore...as they will not be seen to be taking anything from us for free. Most overweight people are not freeloading off anybody! As far as the argument that they cost the NHS more than a person of the correct weight....Rubbish, because as we know they die years sooner.
It just seems that people want to hate the overweight, it is their choice and they have to live with the consequences and it is them that will die sooner, smokers will also die sooner(probably, not counting the obvious exceptions of course) If we had the system sorted so that the crazy abuses that we read about could not happen, we would be left not caring at all if a person is fat or a smoker or whatever, it would be back to freedom of choice again as it used to be. If i like to eat until i pop open, nobody will care if i am not perceived to be taking anything from anyone. If i want to smoke myself into oblivion, who will care if it costs them no more than if i never touched one? It is indeed up to me how i live my life!
There are a couple of things that have changed (not for the better IMHO)
Another emotive subject at the moment is council houses.....
As long as there is a subsidy, and the people who live in a council house are not paying full rate for it then they should be subject to certain rules and boundaries as they are now. In the past a council house was not free or cheap, it was just a straight choice for most working people if they could not afford a mortgage. It was like this in lots of areas of the country, you were paying full rent and not getting anything from anyone at all...just paying your way, your choice..mortgage or rent. Now however, you are automatically a scrounger if you live in a council house.....Not true, just the way people now see things as they are told that council tenant= scrounger I am sure that there are still people who pay FULL rent in council houses, and who work and owe nobody anything at all.
Society has given so many subsidies to so many people, then made all of us hate those who get them.
Can you blame someone who is told he can have a house, car and money for doing nothing when they take you up on your kind offer? In some cases they are better off than we are.

 

[C180 Chris]

Sadly we hear a lot about conditions, low metabolisms, etc but the fact is that you can't create fat (a source of energy) out of nothing.

The human body cannot create fat out of nothing, so if obese people did not eat much then they would eventually become thin. Sure some conditions and metabolisms create more fat per pound of food eaten than others, but that just means they should eat less.

...As above
At least this guy has done something to prevent himself ever getting fat........

He left a well paid job in England to take up a poorly paid job in spain... so he should not be able to afford to eat enough to ever get fat!

Well done fella.

 

[d215yq]

...As above
At least this guy has done something to prevent himself ever getting fat........

He left a well paid job in England to take up a poorly paid job in spain... so he should not be able to afford to eat enough to ever get fat!

Well done fella.

Oh come on...

You attack the OP rather personally and now are having a go at me bringing in stuff based on a different thread. A lot of my English friends are bankers, lawyers, accountants and as you can imagine we disagree on some things but this doesn't and shouldn't spill into others.

I'm sure there are many things we do agree on, your era of Mercedes cars for example....so let's leave the points on which we disagree in the appropriate place.