C220 52 reg wont start

thus

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Hi

I have replaced my old burnt out loom with a new loom (a611 150 0433).

The car still wont start all it does is make a single click in the fuse box/ecu area and thats followed by another click I assume by the starter motor.

Then for no apparant reason the radiator fan activates.

I checked (I think) all the fuses and I have had to change only one 15 amp fuse last one on the nearside.

The car still wont start.

The battery I think is ok lights doesn't dim when trying to start. There is no malfunctions on the dashboard no warning lights nothing.

I also replaced the fuse and pulled out the red plug I think is the trigger and tried the key the fuse is ok .

Has anybody got any ideas?

Thanks in advance
 
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thus

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I have read on the following post "c220 53 reg not starting" that I could have a problem with the ECU, wiring, earthing or possibly a relay in the fusebox area.

Something to do with the can bus?

Hoping that the ECU is okay which relays should I check, or where would the earth be on the fusebox turret?

The loom has been changed.

Strange thing is that the fan is on even though all the internals controls are off.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
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television

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I have sent you via email the starter wiring diagram such as it is.


On the diagram 50MJ is the wire going to the starter, it is CAN controlled via the N10/1 that Is your front SAM

In the front fuse box you have fuse 52 and 50 amp.
it drives the N10/1 SAM starter section /motor.
Fuse 53 is the starter relay fuse rated at 87 amps.


That is all i have time for today,,I see that the fan and control module is on F51
 

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hello thus, sounds bad. where did the loom burn out, was it the heavy duty cable from the battery?? this would take a lot of current to do...i wonder if your battery is shot.

did you connect both those cables to the 30 (batt +ve) terminal on your starter? i suspect this is a feed to the rest of the cars electrical system so you must have. hopefully the fuse in it is ok? off the top of my head i cannot remember the actual wiring layout as i have shown on your other thread!

the wire to your starter is the purple one leaving the front sam unit. you can power this cable direct to see if the starter is wired ok and there is enough current available. then check the starter relay - you could swap it for one of the other ones. it is possible of course that your front sam has been damaged, this also powers the engine fan i believe.

if you could get back with details of exactly which cables have been overloaded that could help us greatly, thanks.
 

Alex Crow

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thanks for that sam, i guess that IS a fused supply to the alternator then. we really want to see this one to diagnose it huh? i am intrigued as to which wiring is shorted and how, i would have thought this was a case for a legal claim and so forth but thus seems to be taking it on.

also thus says a new ecu is needed, if this has already been fitted but not coded it will not start, and will run the fan flat out...
 
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thus

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Hi


No I havn't replaced the ECU -1500 is out of my budget. If anybody can help me it would be really appreciated. The feed with a fuse on the end of it wasn't even connected when the garage directed it - but the filament in the fusebox looked ok.

I have also noticed that there is some water at the bottom of the fuse box not enough to touch the ecu but some wires are submerged.

When the garage directed the starter the wire which showed most damage such as charring were the purple one from the starter but I could see no damage to the fuse box and a brown wire(where that went to I have no idea)
also pin number number 17 on the plug (MAF?)on the ecu showed a little charring. I have replaced the whole loom (A611 150 0433). But there was intermittent burning throughout the old wire harness the burn was as far as I can see only on the loom A611 150 0433..


Everything else looks ok.

Yes I have put main feeds on to the 13mm point on the starter. I have also put the purple wire onto the 10mm bolt on the starter.

Is there anyway of resetting the ECU? I will change the battery (but at the momment headlights are fine) later and I will flash the starter as advised by SAMUNIT in his other post.

I just want my car on the road I'm driving a primera at the moment!! no joy!! The merc is on ramps!! one thing I have noticed is that the fan seems to be supercharge.

Other thing that isn't not working at he moment windscreen wipers- all fues look ok.

Alexander Patient I don't want to damage the new loom how would I go about powering up the purple wire safely?
 
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Alex Crow

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as long as your purple wire is connected to the correct starter terminal then you should be ok, assuming the starter is ok! first check for an output on this wire when the key is turned though, then disconnect from the sam and power up with a wire from the battery positive, just flashing the power across at first. or even check with a multimeter to make sure it is not a dead short first. from what you tell us it sounds like the front sam has been fried, ie fan on all time, wipers not working and (probably) no output to the starter. better test all the other sam outputs like all the front lighting and indicators, horns, coolant and washer level displays in dash, external temp display in dash etc...

when you say this garage 'directed' the starter, what do you mean??
 
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thus

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Hi

There is definitely no power coming through the purple wire. I accidently touched/brushed the live (the direct feed from the battery connected at the top of the solenoid) with something ( I assume the purple wire) the starter cranked several times. But I didnt start it, I didnt let it continue long enough.

The only things wrong with the car at the moment apart from no feed to the starter is the windscreen wipers an wash.

Do you thing it is the SAM, can I remove the SAM and test it? Or is it the ECU? I have looked at the relays and the yellow relay at the back of the fuse box is the radiator fan control I replaced it with another no difference -the fan still comes on when I try to start the car.

The garage replaced the starter but the car wouldn't start so they touched the live to the body of the starter ( I think) and started it but by the time I got home it caught fire burnt all the loom.

Upon inspection the second feed on the starter ending in a fuse wasn't even attached and secondly all the wires above the starter were burnt - I have been told one possibility is that they must have caught the wires and shorted them whilst trying to start it- but the car wouldn't start b'cos they left a main feed off.

If I brush the live to the purple wire and start the car do you think I may burn out the loom again?

But I definitely need to sort out the no power in the purple wire. But I think your right bcos that purple wire connects directly into the fuse box rather than the ecu?

Thanks for your help
 
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Hi

There is definitely no power coming through the purple wire. I accidently touched/brushed the live (the direct feed from the battery connected at the top of the solenoid) with something ( I assume the purple wire) the starter cranked several times. But I didnt start it, I didnt let it continue long enough.

The only things wrong with the car at the moment apart from no feed to the starter is the windscreen wipers an wash.

Do you thing it is the SAM, can I remove the SAM and test it? Or is it the ECU? I have looked at the relays and the yellow relay at the back of the fuse box is the radiator fan control I replaced it with another no difference -the fan still comes on when I try to start the car.

the fuse box and the sam are one and the same thing, about £250 for your car
If I brush the live to the purple wire and start the car do you think I may burn out the loom again?
i DOUBT it, but then i am still unsure as to how this purple wire has been burnt out, i doubt even more that it would start but it may - probably worht a shot but i cannot guarantee your wiring will be unharmed, obviously
But I definitely need to sort out the no power in the purple wire. But I think your right bcos that purple wire connects directly into the fuse box rather than the ecu?
the starter is actuated by the sam unit as you can see, having recieved the start signal from the ecu. the ecu sends the signal to the sam if it recieves a signal from the eis (ignition switch) and the gearbox module says it is in P/N
Thanks for your help

good luck thus, tell me you are persuing the garage with a claim? please?
 
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thus

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Thanks

I am definitely going to pursue it with the garage -the bill is adding up - one garage has estimated the damage at 2500. By the looks of things I maybe replacing more than I hope I have to.

But I do appreciate your help.

Last couple of questions is there no way of testing/fixing the old SAM once I get it out? or is it a case of swap it and turn the key?

I assume I may have to change the ECU or reprogramme it? Are all the SAMs the same on these cars whether they are petrol or derv?

Is it easy to change the SAM?

One other explanation is that they were just incompetent -and that they had been trying to start that car ( I had left it for several hours before I collected) before I had got there and that shorting/directing the starter took its toll on the loom immediately above the starter where the seat of the fire has been confirmed. Just simply through careless direct contact with the live feed with either a spanner or something with the purple wire directly on the solenoid.


regards
 
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Alex Crow

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thus, forget changing any modules, they need coding. your next step i am afraid is professional help. post a threadasking for recommendation sin your area, you should get a good response...
 
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thus

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Hi

Sorry I'm a bit confused, I was geared up to remove the front SAM - So if I got this correct I maybe able to start the car by getting it reprogrammed?

I thought the previous threads were tending to lean towards a fried SAM? The evidence being no power to purple thread and windscreen wipers on the blink.



regards
 

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Any programming is done on the car, and the front N10/1 SAM will need to know what the car has,,all done on STAR
 
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thus

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I'm happy to reprogramme the car - but I thought with the radiator fan activating after I turn the key also indicated a fried SAM unit?
 

television

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I'm happy to reprogramme the car - but I thought with the radiator fan activating after I turn the key also indicated a fried SAM unit?

More than likely yes,, though the fan does have its own controller
 
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c220 non starter

Hi

where would I find this controller?
 

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Thus,

I dont mean to be cheeky but i feel you are missing a few major points.

1) It seems to me that the fault on your car is the result of bad workmanship at the garage you used therefore they should be responsible for making it good.
2)It appears that your SAM is u/s therefore you really need to find a good mercedes specialist to diagnos it using STAR.
 
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c220 wont start

Hi

No your not. I've booked it in for tomorrow and I hope he is good. I also try/enjoy broadening my limited knowledge.
 


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