1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

cl600 in france uneven tickover

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by bouzirouge, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    Hi guys, my cl600 tickover "pulses" on startup. It goes from 0 to 800rpm in a steady rythmic style like someone blipping the throttle in time to music. does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?

    here's a quick update on the progress i've made so far with the indicators, wipers and hrw on all the time. Today, i managed to work out how to remove the ventilation ducting below the steering wheel and changed over the switch -- no change, then the relay -- no change! so it's neither of these parts. The harnesses were replaced a few years ago. i did find a small mouse nest under the dash when i took off the ducting so i guess i'm looking for chewed through wires under the dash? oh joy.

    The mercedes code reader i ordered arrived today. I kind of thought i'd be in a position to take it on the road and drive it once i'd read and cleared the codes but all i managed today was to confirm that the relay and switch are fine. I'll not be taking it on the road till the indicators and wipers work properly so for now i'll just read the codes and see what i learn.

    Any ideas, suggestions, shortcuts, or even better, solutions are welcome.
     
  2. st4

    st4 Banned

    Messages:
    8,624
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny Scotland
    Your Mercedes:
    Disqualified driver
    Have you driven the car? Is it drive able.

    It may well to be with furling but someone who knows more about V12s could hopefully help more.
     
  3. Dec

    Dec Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Your Mercedes:
    W202
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  4. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    hi guys, well bearing in mind mine's is a cl600 w140, my relay looks totally different. it's part no 140 552 00 19. it's in the same place just behind the engine compartment fusebox. i've already replaced it with no difference to the symptoms. i've also already replaced the stalk, same no change.

    i've just finished removing as many of the covers as i can to see if i can locate the problem. with this relay not connected though, i can still hear the indicator relay flashing. sounds like it's below the dash, it's not coming from under the bonnet. is there another?

    anyway a fiddle with the wires under the dash put the left indicator off. it now works with the stalk. nothing at all from the right indicator. hazards work so it's not a bulb problem. i maneged to get the wipers switched off too, but if i turn them on they stay on after i've switched them off. it's raining heavily though so i'm not sure it's not the rain sensor keeping them running. i'll wait for a dry day or until i get some space in my garage. same fiddle about got the engine ticking over smoothly for a while, but another fumble about had it pulsing again. so i think the problem is located somewhere under the dash. a flashlight shows layers of wiring and sockets.

    i'd say i'm making progresss of the two forward one back kind. i've run out of daylight for now. i've taken pics all the way but the won'yt upload to this site. too big. i don't know how to re-size them so you'll just have to imagine it all for now!!

    as usual, any thoughts, inspirations, experiences or suggestionns are welcome. now i think i can use it a little on the road i'll have a go with the new code reader and see how i get on. update to follow.

    290322574477.jpg
     
  5. Dec

    Dec Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Your Mercedes:
    W202
    140 820 24 26 indicator/hazards/rear window heater
    140 552 00 19 ? I don’t think this is an N10 relay

    Dec

    Edit; if you touch the relay while it is clicking you will be able to feel and hear the relay clicking.

    [YOUTUBE]NtjetKWntv8[/YOUTUBE]
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  6. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    i'm coming to the conclusion this part isn't the relay n10. does anyone know where it is on the cl600 w140? it sounds like it's in the dash but i can't see anything looking like a relay in there. under the bonnet it's almost silent, but still audible. i'm sure i'll find it eventually but a pointer might stop me doing any damage in the search.

    i feel i'm on the right track. it's really frustrating not taking it for a drive but i really need the indicators and wipers to go off and on properly before i look into any other problems.
     
  7. Dec

    Dec Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Your Mercedes:
    W202
    What year is the car?

    List faults, what is not working?
    Wipers… speed 1? Speed 2? Speed 3?... have you rain sensing wipers?
    Does the wiper blades park correctly when switched off at the stalk switch?
    Indicators… left and right?
    Hazards warning lights?
    Rear window demister?
    Windows?, Mirrors?, heater blower, dome lights, central locking etc and anything else.

    Dec
     
  8. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    hi, it's a 03/08/94 w140 cl600, vin no WDB1400762A213762. been sitting unused for 2+ years.

    hrw is on all the time the ignition is on, or at least the switch is constantly lit. rocking the switch has no effect.

    l/h indicator on all the time from ignition on to removal of key. that is, key in - nothing, turn on ignition, l/h indicator starts. stalk has no effect. won't switch off till key is removed from ignition switch. r/h indicator does not work. hazard flashers work from switch. all indicators flash.

    wipers work on all speeds. no delay as once started they don't switch off. stalk changes speed and washers work. i have changed the stalk to no effect.

    the motor on both belt servers runs but the arm doesn't move.

    only drivers side rear headrest moves. steering wheel adjuster makes rear mirror move (up only). mirror adjuster all works except up.

    seat adjuster works.

    all windows go up and down as they should. front windows have started to "park" as they should. this park feature did not work when i picked the car up.

    central locking still does not lock or unlock doors, but alarm/immobiliser sets ok with the button on the key.

    door mirrors adjust and park on the switch.

    key in and turned once the compressor under the seat kicks in for a few seconds.

    on startup from cold engine pulses rythmically between 800rpm and 0.

    as i've been working on the car things have started to work like the window park. think this is related to the compressor so i take it the pressure is building up and also things are freeing off with use.

    the reason the car was parked up was the indicator and wipers problem. the car has been diagnosed over the phone as well documented harness issue. i found in the history harnesses have been replaced already, so i'm hoping for a relativley more simple and fixable problem.

    if there are any additional gizmo's i've not listed that i should be checking out let me know.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  9. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    heater motor, air con, dash lights, speedo, rev counter, all dials, and lights interior and dash seem to work ok.
     
  10. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    I've driven the car twice. 1st on the original road test then driving it home after i purchased the car.

    it feels down on power. from research on the forum i think it's in limp home mode. 2nd and/or 3rd only. i've bought a code reader to investigate this issue but have been using all my limited free time trying to sort out the indicators and wipers so i can take it on the road with the code reader.

    i've read that i'm to note down the codes stored in the memory now. then clear them. then drive it around for a couple of days before reading the codes again. the results of this second reading is what i work on???

    i'm looking forward to doing this, as by that time the car will have working electrics and all i'm chasing is the missing performance. the car has full service history from a merc specialist in the uk, but not a main dealer. once i can drive the car i intend to have it looked at and fully serviced by someone who knows these cars.
     
  11. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    well another root around under the bonnet this time. removing more covers i found another layer of relays behind the fusebox and under the relay i've already replaced. it's the one. i can feel it and hear it as the indicators flashing. case is broken and loose. someone been here already, or just crap glue? seems i need a140 820 24 26 (07) according to the case. ho hum. feel like i'm learning something.
     
  12. Dec

    Dec Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Your Mercedes:
    W202
    A140 542 0019 is the intermittent wiper relay, it wont play any part in speed 2 or 3, If this relay was/is stuck on then you wouldn’t be able to stop the wipers unless you turn ignition to 0 which is off.

    A140 820 24 26 is blinkers/ hazard warning / Heated rear window and L sender???.

    Given the car was off the road for 2 year , there may be a bad connection that’s feeding those relays or the relays themselves, get some switch cleaner and clean anything in any way connected to these relays in and below the fuse box area… how was the car stored for the 2 years, do you know?

    Dec

    Note the part numbers at the end part of this video.
    [YOUTUBE]mohQhaRlWd8[/YOUTUBE]
     
  13. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    hi, dry stored in a heated garage. i'm cleaning everything as i go. wd40, fine sandpaper where needed. i've notice a few things coming back to life as i go. hardest thing is finding things and working out what does what. seems wiper relay and indicator relay are dodgy. i've got thins wotking a bit better now but the weipers stll stick occcasionally.
     
  14. Dec

    Dec Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Your Mercedes:
    W202
    Do the stop suddenly in mid sweep JUST AFTER you switch them off at the stalk?

    Dec
     
  15. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    it seem i have two unrelated problems. both concerning relays. in one case the wipers come on but won't switch off. i've not been able to check the intermittant setting as they just keep sweeping. off is when i switch the ignition off. i can speed them up ok. 2 and 3 work fine. no change between 1 and 2 setting. the stalk does nothing except speed them up on 3 or slow them down to 2. first setting is the same speed as 2??

    problem 2 is the left indicators are stuck on. stalk makes no difference. hazards work. all bulbs flashing. hazards off and i'm left with the left hand indicators going. only turn off when i take the key out. hrw is on all the time that the ignition is on. same relay i believe? the one ending 26.

    something is happening as i work on it though. the wipers sometimes work as they should. that is thew switch on then switch off in the proper park position. happened 2 or 3 times today. when i quit for the day they were stuck on again. however the indicator is now off. the rh one does not flash at all but i can turn the left one on and off. seems a good shake up has made the difference.

    i understand it's voltage difference, not two wires controlling left/right so i'll give all the contacts a thorough clean up on my next stint. making progress.

    you guys know your stuff. i hope to have time tomorrow to have another go at it. i feel with your help and guidance it's close to working. just another clean up and fiddle around. i'd really prefer to change the 2426 relay too if i could. the one on the car is cracked. that can't be good. so far i've not been able to track on down. i'm sure one will turn up.
     
  16. Dec

    Dec Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Your Mercedes:
    W202
    2 years is a long time to be off the road so things may well repair themselves in time with a little fiddeling.

    It will be worth opening up the relays and plug them in to there sockets and run them “out of there boxes” to see if you can clean the points of the relays and check for broken solder joints which can cause intermittent faults like what you have at the moment.

    You can also open and close the relay points (Red arrows in picture below) with a cocktail stick, this can help in diagnosing the fault.

    Use switch cleaner on any electrics, example… http://www.maplin.co.uk/switch-cleaner-27515
    Different relay below but you might have same fault, previously posted… http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=62702

    Dec
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  17. Bolide

    Bolide Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,294
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Your Mercedes:
    BMW 525 Diesel Touring
    I think I'd start by putting the newest, biggest battery I could find on the car. Then do what you're doing - chasing connectors, relays and fuses. Scotchbrite pads are good for cleaning contacts if done carefully. I wouldn't use sandpaper as it's too aggressive

    The mouse situation would worry me

    Nick Froome
     
  18. OP
    bouzirouge

    bouzirouge Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    sw france
    Your Mercedes:
    s600 coupe w140
    hi, thanks for all the very helpful replies. first thing i bought was a brand new fully charged 100amp battery. i'm going at it slowly and methodically. i'm learning something new with every fiddle about with it. i'm more worried about damaging something through ignorance than anything else. not knowing where things are or how to get to them has been the biggest problem so far.

    i'll keep at it, cleaning as i go. amazing what a bit of a shake will do for these problems. i know the car was looked after up until it became undriveable because of the indicators and wipers being on all the time, so i'm hopeful the power problem is more of the same. i feel i'm getting close to taking it out for a drive, with my new code reader at the ready.

    i'll take some pictures and post them up. it might even help out someone else too. i rushed to replace the relay by the fuse box too quickly as it turns out that is not the one causing the problem. i don't think i'll get any spare time to work on it tomorrow, maybe wedneday or thursday though.

    update to follow.
     
  19. Dec

    Dec Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Your Mercedes:
    W202
    When you changed the stalk, was it new or used and were the pin lay out on the stalk plug exactly the same as the original stalk?

    If you were to unplug the stalk under the steering wheel and if the wipers then stop working then the existing stalk could be faulty.
    If, on the other hand, the wipers continue to work, with the stalk unplugged, then the stalk is not at fault.

    Dec
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  20. television

    television Always remembered RIP

    Messages:
    164,074
    Likes Received:
    310
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry
    Your Mercedes:
    2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
    As said sand paper is not good as it removes the flash plating. the non drying switch cleaner from Maplins is all that is needed sprayed on the contacts.

    Your fault almost sounds like a missing or poor ground connection somewhere.

    Re the N10, do pull it out, its in the fuse box and spray the contacts, the fault has to be around or in that relay,as all of your faults are on that relay.

    The common link is that the flashers, rear window and wipers all turn on but not off.

    The N10s are becoming scarce now and expensive. they can be opened up and checked, you can send it to me if you wish and I can check it out to a fair degree
     

Share This Page