Gearbox Service

[davemercedes]

Yes, that is a good price Bay Leaf. Once it's been done you can relax knowing you're okay for anotherK miles and as far as driving... it will probably make absolutely no difference whatsover! Well, it made no difference on my S203 but at least thanks to the interchange of info on this MB forum, I knew the 'box was NOT sealed for life and had been serviced as it should have!

Interstingly, when I dabbled with the idea of going full service with MB (and that's another story!) none of the quotes I received mentioned a transmission service - even though it was well known by then that the 'box was not "sealed for life". Enter my favourite Indy - Mercland - and it was taken care of at a reasonable price!

 

[Bay Leaf]

I had it done the other day and to be honest I haven't noticed any difference. The gear changes are nice and smooth as they were before. That said Iv'e got peace of mind knowing that the oil is new and running through a new filter.

 

[Jim2]

I had it done the other day and to be honest I haven't noticed any difference. The gear changes are nice and smooth as they were before. That said Iv'e got peace of mind knowing that the oil is new and running through a new filter.

At the end of the day, thats all any of us really want....peace of mind, and smooth driving !!!

 

[Bay Leaf]

Hi My 2013 SL 350 has 34k on-the clock, I know the gearbox will need a service at 40k but that could take me probably two years to get to that milage. So is there a time limit for the box. My previous car was a Jaguar which was 60k or eight years which ever came first.

BL

I know I'm replying to my own post here but here goes. I contacted the Indy who did the gearbox service and this is what they said.
Gearbox drained, Filter replaced and filled with new oil as per MB specifications this is a one off requirement.
The torque converter is not flushed or drained. This would only be flushed if there was any debris or contamination in the gearbox oil removed, or any gearbox performance issues and would be the first step in the repair schedule.

So back to another question in some of my other posts, Do I have a 7G or 7G+ gearbox. I'm also not sure that I would like to leave the oil in for the life of the car. I think I would like to change it again at some point in the future although I only do about 4k per year.

 

[Tony Dyson]

I know I'm replying to my own post here but here goes. I contacted the Indy who did the gearbox service and this is what they said.
Gearbox drained, Filter replaced and filled with new oil as per MB specifications this is a one off requirement.
The torque converter is not flushed or drained. This would only be flushed if there was any debris or contamination in the gearbox oil removed, or any gearbox performance issues and would be the first step in the repair schedule.

So back to another question in some of my other posts, Do I have a 7G or 7G+ gearbox. I'm also not sure that I would like to leave the oil in for the life of the car. I think I would like to change it again at some point in the future although I only do about 4k per year.

I believe the 7G+ is fitted to all cars with Stop/Start

 

[Blobcat]

I know I'm replying to my own post here but here goes. I contacted the Indy who did the gearbox service and this is what they said.
Gearbox drained, Filter replaced and filled with new oil as per MB specifications this is a one off requirement.
The torque converter is not flushed or drained. This would only be flushed if there was any debris or contamination in the gearbox oil removed, or any gearbox performance issues and would be the first step in the repair schedule.

So back to another question in some of my other posts, Do I have a 7G or 7G+ gearbox. I'm also not sure that I would like to leave the oil in for the life of the car. I think I would like to change it again at some point in the future although I only do about 4k per year.

As they’ve not drained the torque converter only ~1/2 of the ATF has been changed. Changing again fairly soon will give a higher new to old ATF ratio

 

[Jim2]

As they’ve not drained the torque converter only ~1/2 of the ATF has been changed. Changing again fairly soon will give a higher new to old ATF ratio

Way I look at it is this. For the 7sp trans with stop /start, its only a little extra work to drain the TC.....the sump pan is already down, just remove the electric auxilary pump ( two bolts ) turn the crankshaft until the TC drain bolt comes into view, remove it, drain the oil, When its drained, replace the pump, then everything else in reverse sequence, and bingo, job done, (of course the radiator and pipes are still full of old oil, but no so much in the overall scheme of things) The 722.6 5 sp is a different kettle of fish...and its pretty common for people to just change the oil and filter, and repeat it fairly often, and gradually the % of new oil will increase )

 

[Tony Dyson]

Way I look at it is this. For the 7sp trans with stop /start, its only a little extra work to drain the TC.....the sump pan is already down, just remove the electric auxilary pump ( two bolts ) turn the crankshaft until the TC drain bolt comes into view, remove it, drain the oil, When its drained, replace the pump, then everything else in reverse sequence, and bingo, job done, (of course the radiator and pipes are still full of old oil, but no so much in the overall scheme of things) The 722.6 5 sp is a different kettle of fish...and its pretty common for people to just change the oil and filter, and repeat it fairly often, and gradually the % of new oil will increase )

The way I look at it is if I'm paying for an ATF change I would expect a complete change of fluid in the entire system, in every single YT video I've seen of an ATF change the sump magnets have been contaminated with ferrous particles, I cannot believe a professional motor engineer would not drain the TC and heat exchanger in an ATF change?

 

[steveq]

I agree that draining the TC should be part of a gearbox service.
About half the A4TF is in the TC so it will increase the amount of oil required and the effort (slightly) so it would increase the cost.
That said, I understand that the main dealers don't drain the TC when doing a gearbox service - no idea why it is excluded.

Also, make sure they are using the correct 236.15 spec ATF -- it is a blue/green colour.

 

[Jim2]

The way I look at it is if I'm paying for an ATF change I would expect a complete change of fluid in the entire system, in every single YT video I've seen of an ATF change the sump magnets have been contaminated with ferrous particles, I cannot believe a professional motor engineer would not drain the TC and heat exchanger in an ATF change?

I was replying to another post where only a partial change was done, and saying I couldn't understand why it was done like this, given the small amount of extra work involved..even if the radiator and exchange pipes were not done. Personally, its either a 100% fluid and filter change, or its not a change at all. That's my modality on this kind of job.

 

[Bay Leaf]

The way I look at it is if I'm paying for an ATF change I would expect a complete change of fluid in the entire system, in every single YT video I've seen of an ATF change the sump magnets have been contaminated with ferrous particles, I cannot believe a professional motor engineer would not drain the TC and heat exchanger in an ATF change?

This is probably the reason it only cost me £180.00

 

[Tony Dyson]

This is probably the reason it only cost me £180.00

Now that would Pi$$ me right off! If they didn't make it clear to me at the time of the quotation that they were only going to replace the fluid that fell out of the pan, I would expect a complete change of ATF in exchange for full payment of the quoted price. Not a partial change and they weren't going to even bother with the remaining used fluid in the TC and Heat Exchanger (Where it sounds as though they also haven't addressed) unless "This would only be flushed if there was any debris or contamination in the gearbox oil removed," Really? they didn't find any contamination on the magnets in the sump pan? I don't consider £180 a good price for half a job! and frankly speaking I would be wondering if they followed the correct procedures in doing half the job they quoted for? I don't have any means of measuring the level of fluid in my auto box there is no dipstick neither is there any means to fit one, if you have, or can interrogate yours electronically I would do so and confirm they have at least put the right amount back in?.

 

[Chrishazle]

Depends on the box. The 5 speed box on my S203 had no drain point for the TC, so to also drain that meant something like disconnecting a pipe to the cooler and somehow getting the fluid to pump out that way. Other boxes have a drain point for the TC so are much easier to fully drain. A decent indie like AMF would no doubt explain it better than I can - but £180 only covers changing the filter and ATF on the box, that's what I paid at a decent indie on my S203 10 years ago!

Also getting the re-fill level correct requires knowledge, to do with getting the new fluid up to correct temperature (?80C) and only then checking the level is correct. Hence knowledgeable indie required!

 

[Jim2]

Depends on the box. The 5 speed box on my S203 had no drain point for the TC, so to also drain that meant something like disconnecting a pipe to the cooler and somehow getting the fluid to pump out that way. Other boxes have a drain point for the TC so are much easier to fully drain. A decent indie like AMF would no doubt explain it better than I can - but £180 only covers changing the filter and ATF on the box, that's what I paid at a decent indie on my S203 10 years ago!

Also getting the re-fill level correct requires knowledge, to do with getting the new fluid up to correct temperature (?80C) and only then checking the level is correct. Hence knowledgeable indie required!

On the 722.6 trans, in some ways, the atf change, inc the TC. If you have done it once, even easier 2nd time around. No fiddling around with pumps and special fittings etc. Plus easier to check the level as it has a dipstick, and the heat exchanger + feed pipe fluid will be changed as part of the process. Dropping the sump off and replacing the filter is pretty much the same operation in both the 722.6 & 722.9 boxes. For the 722.6 TC, you disconnect one of the exchanger pipes, pump out 2 litres of old fluid, replace with new fluid. Repeat until the new fluid appears. Job done. For the 722.9 TC, after removing the sump, the auxiliary pump has to be removed to expose the TC drain stud. Then it will drain itself manually. As for the exchanger and feed pipes, they're a separate job. I have not done it yet ( its in the pipeline) but I imagine that opening both pipes on the exchanger where they enter transmission housing, and pumping new fluid in until it appears out the other end is the way to do it.

 

[mioba]

Deepends on the garage and if they are a high end merc indy with the correct workshop apparatus, some garages do a full flush by connecting to the inlet and outlet and literally pumping through the entire system to replace all the fluid.

 

[Tony Dyson]

On the 722.6 trans, in some ways, the atf change, inc the TC. If you have done it once, even easier 2nd time around. No fiddling around with pumps and special fittings etc. Plus easier to check the level as it has a dipstick, and the heat exchanger + feed pipe fluid will be changed as part of the process. Dropping the sump off and replacing the filter is pretty much the same operation in both the 722.6 & 722.9 boxes. For the 722.6 TC, you disconnect one of the exchanger pipes, pump out 2 litres of old fluid, replace with new fluid. Repeat until the new fluid appears. Job done. For the 722.9 TC, after removing the sump, the auxiliary pump has to be removed to expose the TC drain stud. Then it will drain itself manually. As for the exchanger and feed pipes, they're a separate job. I have not done it yet ( its in the pipeline) but I imagine that opening both pipes on the exchanger where they enter transmission housing, and pumping new fluid in until it appears out the other end is the way to do it.

Hi Jim, Agreed, the Haynes Manual provides the complete procedure for the 722.6 box but for the 722.9 states, "We recommend this task is entrusted to a Mercedes Dealer or suitably equipped repairer". and the only video I've ever found that details the full fluid change to include the contents of the TC and HE for the 722.9 box is herewith FYIP, where the poster also quotes required temperatures and torque settings, it's one I've been keeping for the next time mine's due: ETA The HE starts at around 10:24.

 

[Jim2]

Hi Jim, Agreed, the Haynes Manual provides the complete procedure for the 722.6 box but for the 722.9 states, "We recommend this task is entrusted to a Mercedes Dealer or suitably equipped repairer". and the only video I've ever found that details the full fluid change to include the contents of the TC and HE for the 722.9 box is herewith FYIP, where the poster also quotes required temperatures and torque settings, it's one I've been keeping for the next time mine's due: ETA The HE starts at around 10:24.

Hi Tony. Thanks for the video. Will be very useful when actually get to do the change...time wise, I'm running a few mths late, but mileage wise, I still have a good few thousand to go, so safe enough for now I think. The bugger with the 722.9 is the rigmarole you have to go through just to check the level and condition of the fluid. After going that far, you may as well go the full hog and do a change. Thanks again for the VID.

 

[Bay Leaf]

The Indy I used has a very good reputation and came highly recommended, So I wouldn't have thought they would have done a inferior job. There are videos on YouTube that show the exact procedure that they have done. However I would of liked to have had a complete fluid change which I can always have done in the future, but in the Indy's defence he was only carrying out the procedure recommend by MB

 

[Mr Greedy]

This is probably the reason it only cost me £180.00

Well it's only about £200 from a well respected Indy for the full fluid change, so for the sake of saving £20, I would not be happy one little bit and I wouldn't use the garage ever again.

 

[steveq]

Even paying £200 it is a bargain.
The filter, rubber seal, sump pan bolts, magnets, standup pipe and TC drain bolt are about £60.
The correct ATF is about £180 for 20 litres (enough for 2 cars).
That is about £150 for consumables and labour is on top of that.
By the time the car is on a hoist, undertrays are removed, sump drained and removed, TC drained, sump cleaned, all put back on the car and torqued correctly, ATF pumped in, temp raised, and level corrected, I really doubt if it could be done in an hour. I would guess that the car would be on the hoist for closer to two hours.

I know that trade prices for the parts & ATF are probably lower but still that isn't much of a margin.