Mercedes Diesel software update.

[js190d]

my daily is a bicycle....

I do less than 4k miles a year in a vehicle and pay in the region of £1000 road tax, yet many scum bags in tractors do 60k miles a year, paying 23 quid road tax to spend their life puking out death from the exhaust, whilst causing congestion and accidents on the M25 - the world's gone mad, not to worry it'll end soon

I too am a cyclist or mtb'er to be precise. Some great trails here in Northumberland and in Southern Scotland, easy to get to in a big diesel estate. Ride a Nicolai Helius. Hand made in Germany from finest Easton Aluminium.

Remember never to buy a carbon fibre frame. Bad for the environment as they cannot be recycled and when cut the dust causes respiratory issues.

 

[LostKiwi]

I too am a cyclist or mtb'er to be precise. Some great trails here in Northumberland and in Southern Scotland, easy to get to in a big diesel estate. Ride a Nicolai Helius. Hand made in Germany from finest Easton Aluminium.

Remember never to buy a carbon fibre frame. Bad for the environment as they cannot be recycled and when cut the dust causes respiratory issues.

http://www.materialsforengineering....rials/features/recycling-carbon-fibre/160324/

Looks pretty recyclable to me.

 

[js190d]

http://www.materialsforengineering....rials/features/recycling-carbon-fibre/160324/

Looks pretty recyclable to me.

Jolly good, however this process creates something that is not the original grade of carbon hence to make for example a Santa Cruz Megatower frame you would need to use original carbon lay up materials once again not this new inferior grade of material.

An alloy, steel or titanium frame can be melted down, processed and reused.

Not really recycling imho because to make the original product again you have to use the original production materials not this bi-product. More a way of getting something rather than nothing from an end of life carbon composite which is good but does not stop the original materials having to be produced again.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I think this thread might have been derailed.

 

[Graeme755]

I think this thread might have been derailed.

My thought exactly. I have phoned MB UK and visited the Dealership and given them a written list of questions regarding the recall. I await their reply.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

My thought exactly. I have phoned MB UK and visited the Dealership and given them a written list of questions regarding the recall. I await their reply.

How did you get on with the call? What did they say?

The person that I've been dealing with has been very rude/defensive/useless. The last correspondence was via email and he basically said 'you signed the contract so you have no leg to stand on' and 'contact the dealer'. Basically 'stop contacting us'.

His name was Thomas Briody - Customer Service UK

 

[Graeme755]

How did you get on with the call? What did they say?

The person that I've been dealing with has been very rude/defensive/useless. The last correspondence was via email and he basically said 'you signed the contract so you have no leg to stand on' and 'contact the dealer'. Basically 'stop contacting us'.

His name was Thomas Briody - Customer Service UK

The call to MB UK was not too useful. The chap I spoke to was civil enough but didn't seem to know about the recall initially then looked it up. Wasn't aware of any reported problems. Gave me a case reference number and suggested I should contact the dealer. (I wasn't aware that MB UK is apparently in the Netherlands.)

I had already arranged to see the dealer and I briefly met a chief technician after handing in my list of questions to the service advisor. No answers given at the meeting but I wasn't really expecting any.
Will wait and see if they reply in writing. Will follow it up if I don't hear anything.

 

[Gazwould]

Waste of time as you'll be met with a brick wall .

 

[Blobcat]

Waste of time as you'll be met with a brick wall .

Probably glass and chrome but I know what you’re getting at

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Well, if you can stay calm and level headed, it's sometimes good to poke the beast to see what can happen rather than just roll over and accept defeat.

Best case scenario would be a revised/silent ECU update at the next service to ease the 7th/9th gear issue for UK users. They literally might not have even considered the issue as it probably wouldn't bother most European users. So, let's let them know rather than just accept defeat.

It's also worth letting them know that at least a few users don't consider their actions acceptable. I think I saw someone on Facebook initiate a lawsuit about it...

 

[Graeme755]

Waste of time as you'll be met with a brick wall .

Maybe so. I'm retired and am more than happy to put a bit of time and effort in even if it doesn't get anywhere.

 

[Winstanley]

Hi All,

It would be ever so kind if you could remove any off-topic posts.

I just wanted to offer you the official written statement from Mercedes Benz UK.

They will not admit that the gear is redundant to the car within legal maximum speed limits, and as a result, safety has been reduced for passengers and other road users.

I have contacted "The Motor Ombudsman" on 0345-241-3008 and they have said that it falls out of their remit and are unable to help.

The have said I should contact the "Citizen's Advice Bureau" on 0808 223 1133

Kind Regards

Steve

----

13th February 2020

Ref: PB-1-25906028206

Dear Mr Winstanley,

Mercedes-Benz Model: C-Class C 250 d 4MATIC
Chassis No: WDDxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Registration: xxxxxx

Thank you for contacting Mercedes-Benz Customer Service.

As per our recent phone conversation, the following is written confirmation of our final statement with regards to your complaint case. Based on the concerns you raised regarding the change in gear shifting since a software update was applied, I raised a complaint case and conducted an investigation.

I contacted Mercedes-Benz of Southampton for feedback regarding your issue. The Retailer have confirmed they contacted our internal technical specialists who have advised that it is impossible to reverse the software update. As discussed, 9th gear is still reachable by manual gear shifts at a lower speed. However, I can appreciate taking into account influences of road inclination and load, that the car can shift quite easily back to 8th gear. Having been in contact with our trained technicians I can confirm that the car cannot be returned to its previous state.

I trust this finds you well and should you have any further requirements, please do not hesitate to contact me or any of my colleagues.

If you are unhappy with this final decision or feel this matter is unresolved, you can seek advice with an CTSI Certified Alternative Dispute Resolution provider. We are prepared to engage with The Motor Ombudsman to resolve your dispute. Further details can be found at www.themotorombudsman.org, or alternatively their telephone number is 0345 241 3008 selecting option 1.

Yours sincerely

Paddy Byrne
Customer Service UK

Mercedes-Benz UK Customer Service can be contacted by telephone on 008 009 777 7777 or 0207 660 9993, Monday - Friday between 08:00 & 18:00.

Mercedes-Benz Customer Assistance Center Maastricht N.V. Gelissendomein 5, 6229 GK Maastricht , Netherlands. Register No.: K.v.K. Limburg 33014909

If you are not the addressee please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete it. We thank you for your support.

Mercedes-Benz collects and processes your personal data as necessary for the provision of our services.
If you would like to know more about your general privacy rights, we refer you to the privacy statement on the following website: www.mercedes-benz.co.uk

[ACTIVITY ID:1-BYU0C0U][CASE ID:1-BWFS3AM]

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Same here. Useless.

 

[davidsl500]

I've read the letter from Mercedes and it appears to me that it is a letter of admission of guilt - anyone else think the same. They say your car was updated and cannot be reversed and no longer works as it previously did.... I'd put in a small claims court claim for a calculated amount of the cost of fuel, inconvenience and possible loss of resale value due to the car no longer performing as it should... This is where there needs to be a group of complainants to go to court and make MB do something.

I don't believe the software update is non reversible either. An ECU replacement would fix that surely?

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Well, I think it's an admission that the car does indeed change gears different, but I wouldn't use the word 'guilt'. They have simply confirmed that the car is operating correctly/as expected after the software update. That's it.

I'm sure they could simply update the software again to do whatever they want it to do. But what they're saying is that they're not going to do it - so in that regard, it is 'not reversible' because 'we are not going to do that'.

I suspect that they had a certain amount of R&D budget to 'fix' this emissions 'problem' and the fact that it annoys some customers is a calculated price they're happy to pay. They probably won't get any lawsuits and any costs from them will be insignificant compared to the VAG group level of lawsuit that they're trying to avoid with this 'voluntary measure'.

Most people will trade up to a newer diesel or not even notice it because a 10-20% fuel bill increase is not on their radar as they are well off enough to buy a Mercedes.

That it affects UK customers in particular (due to a lower speed limit) is again something that I think would be very low on their priority list.

Further, unlike Winstanley, my car is from 2009 and I didn't purchase it directly from MB, so although I've given the servicing and parts department a couple of grand in the 12 months, I imagine they care very little what I think and feel.

 

[LostKiwi]

They will not admit that the gear is redundant to the car within legal maximum speed limits, and as a result, safety has been reduced for passengers and other road users.

Why is safety reduced? There is no correlation between safety and whether a car is in in 9th gear or 8th gear or even 7th gear. Comfort may be reduced but safety is a function of road speed, conditions and driver ability rather than which gear a car is using at a given road speed (as long as it's not at the upper or lower limits of that gear). It could be argued 8th is safer due to making the vehicle more responsive to driver needs.

Certainly I never feel at risk as I drive my r129 through France in 4th.

 

[js190d]

I don't believe the software update is non reversible either. An ECU replacement would fix that surely?

I would have thought for a loyal customer unhappy with the current update a replacement ECU would be your goal. Only problem is of course come next service etc they will update again, so you would have to use an non MB dealer for service to avoid this.

Also in the next 15 years (run up to electric sales only) with emissions legislation getting tougher and tougher i cannot imagine this will be the last "detuning" car owners will see.

Moral of the story stop using Mercedes dealers to service your car. They don't give a stuff!

 

[Winstanley]

New ECU... Yes, but they are infected with the NoX upgrade too.

 

[Winstanley]

Safety, as one wants to operate the car most efficiently by moving to higher gears, meaning the optimum point to be in top is ~76mph. Normally the flow of traffic is around 70mph, hence your are shunting in to the car in front or tailgating until they get out of the way. We all seen it happen.

 

[js190d]

New ECU... Yes, but they are infected with the NoX upgrade too.

Maybe ask Mercedes benz uk the question.

Personally if i was that unhappy with a relatively new car i would just sell it. Older Mercedes are far better cars than the modern junk anyway.