prius

[dieselman]

because their business would be more sustainable and last longer,

How do you work that out. They buy in raw materials and turn it into a saleable product. The more they sell the more profit they make.

 

[dbanbery]

How do you work that out. They buy in raw materials and turn it into a saleable product. The more they sell the more profit they make.

in the short term yes. BUT if they sold less then they would charge more and make more money out of less. they wouldnt necessarily earn as much, but it would be a slower more predictible model. Mercedes and BMW used to design a good car, calculate how much it costs to build, add a little on top, then put it on sale. their cars used to be considerably more expensive, but they were considerably better. nowadays its all about shrinking margins - mercs are still better built, but they fall into the category of having silly things go wrong wich cost a fortune

Look at W124s - that old school principle at its zenith. and they are still popular because of this. if more cars were built like the W124 then surely the world would be a better place wouldnt it? i understand that technology moves on, but there is a balance between this and reliability.

 

[dieselman]

I bet Daimler make more money now thant hey did then.

 

[dbanbery]

I bet Daimler make more money now thant hey did then.

Explain. they arent a part of chrysler now are they?

 

[prwales]

you are probably correct but what they concentrated on in the 1970's and 1980's was the engineering and as a consequence they established a reputation. Now they concentrate on electronic gimmickry and as a consequence have lost their reputation. Built in obselescence is a terrible business strategy for the consumer and the planet and can only make short term business sense. Any analysis of what happened to the US car industry makes this clear...reliable basic Japanese cars. Ditto for the UK car industry reliable German and Japanese cars, basic, cheap bye bye BL.

 

[dbanbery]

you are probably correct but what they concentrated on in the 1970's and 1980's was the engineering and as a consequence they established a reputation. Now they concentrate on electronic gimmickry and as a consequence have lost their reputation. Built in obselescence is a terrible business strategy for the consumer and the planet and can only make short term business sense. Any analysis of what happened to the US car industry makes this clear...reliable basic Japanese cars. Ditto for the UK car industry reliable German and Japanese cars, basic, cheap bye bye BL.

yes this is my point which i made rather unclearly.

 

[d215yq]

It's not in the interests of the car manufacturers to make something good that lasts long because the first time buyer (customer who makes the buying decision) does not want to keep it a long time (probably only 3-4years) and only wants image/gimmickery/good mpg.

Also perceptions of reliability are just that, perceptions, and therefore can be altered by the media, etc, and are very rarely correct so even if a reliable car was made its unlikely that anyone but enthusiasts would know about its longevity (e.g. Most people will think a 90's merc is very unreliable simply because it is old and has no warranty).

Whilst the above are just examples of unregulated capitalism giving the planet/the people the wrong result (as is common nowadays!), and not much can be done about it, what is completely absurd is that the governments massively exacerbate the throw away culture by taxing pollution made from using cars (fuel duty) at a hugely excessive rate and yet don't tax pollution made from making cars: If the oil used in vehicle production (plastics, energy in making steel, etc) was taxed at the same rate as that at the pumps I'd bet you a £20k new Merc would probably be way over £40k (in fact I think in some Scandinavian countries they do attempt to factor this in with huge import duties on cars which makes a simple e class or 520 cost £100k)

I actually believe in climate change/energy security/sustainability and also capitalism, and the simple solution to both is to tax ALL oil heavily no matter whether it is used in production, driving, planes, whatever. That way proper alternatives could be found to using less energy. It is a complete disgrace that pollution from my old W124 is taxed at a vastly higher rate than the larger amount of pollution used in making my mates new Golf TDi (which is pretty much the exact same car as the 4year old one he is replacing), and only bought to "keep up with the Jones".

Still, the more new cars are bought the more in debt people will become and therefore the less self-reliant, which in turn makes the Sheeple easier to control, fear and tax, which I guess is all part of the plan.

 

[jasonyw]

it a long way before we get an electric plane

 

[dbanbery]

It's not in the interests of the car manufacturers to make something good that lasts long because the first time buyer (customer who makes the buying decision) does not want to keep it a long time (probably only 3-4years) and only wants image/gimmickery/good mpg.

Also perceptions of reliability are just that, perceptions, and therefore can be altered by the media, etc, and are very rarely correct so even if a reliable car was made its unlikely that anyone but enthusiasts would know about its longevity (e.g. Most people will think a 90's merc is very unreliable simply because it is old and has no warranty).

Whilst the above are just examples of unregulated capitalism giving the planet/the people the wrong result (as is common nowadays!), and not much can be done about it, what is completely absurd is that the governments massively exacerbate the throw away culture by taxing pollution made from using cars (fuel duty) at a hugely excessive rate and yet don't tax pollution made from making cars: If the oil used in vehicle production (plastics, energy in making steel, etc) was taxed at the same rate as that at the pumps I'd bet you a £20k new Merc would probably be way over £40k (in fact I think in some Scandinavian countries they do attempt to factor this in with huge import duties on cars which makes a simple e class or 520 cost £100k)

I actually believe in climate change/energy security/sustainability and also capitalism, and the simple solution to both is to tax ALL oil heavily no matter whether it is used in production, driving, planes, whatever. That way proper alternatives could be found to using less energy. It is a complete disgrace that pollution from my old W124 is taxed at a vastly higher rate than the larger amount of pollution used in making my mates new Golf TDi (which is pretty much the exact same car as the 4year old one he is replacing), and only bought to "keep up with the Jones".

Still, the more new cars are bought the more in debt people will become and therefore the less self-reliant, which in turn makes the Sheeple easier to control, fear and tax, which I guess is all part of the plan.

as i said before its greed paying into the hands of greed.

 

[d215yq]

Its irrelevant if there is an electric plane possible or not, tax fuel at the same rate wherever it is used in and then this will in turn raise the price of any activity that is unenvironmental/unsustainable/a problem to our finite energy resource.

That way people can still fly but the true price of flying will be paid, so they'll do it less or only when necessary and also the market wont be prepostrously encouraging people to do things which are not in the interest, ie, buy new cars every 3-4 years.

With all the extra money raised by taxing all fuel at the same rate as VED reduce/scrap income tax altogether (particularly for those who aren't rich) to start incentivising work and self reliance again! I'd imagine some of the deficit could be paid off too...simples !

 

[jasonyw]

this sums up, happy reading http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article6294116.ece

hydrogen seemed to the be solution but then...

the utimate solution is on your push bike or public transport when the oil runs dry.

 

[rf065]

I actually believe in climate change/energy security/sustainability and also capitalism, and the simple solution to both is to tax ALL oil heavily no matter whether it is used in production, driving, planes, whatever.

And the day that happens will be the day that 99% of the population can no longer afford to buy fuel, cars, houses, clothes, food etc and will be living in cardboard boxes on the street, there is only so much tax you can levy before civilisation as we know it cannot be sustained anymore. I think we are almost there already.

Russ

 

[dieselman]

there is only so much tax you can levy before civilisation as we know it cannot be sustained anymore. I think we are almost there already.

Russ

Yet we still manage to buy Mercedes, overpriced houses, luxury goods and take foreign holidays...

 

[dbanbery]

Yet we still manage to buy Mercedes, overpriced houses, luxury goods and take foreign holidays...

i dont know about you but i think we have quite a way to go before civilisation collapses due to over taxing.

anyways, massively off topic. who knew such a mediocre car could prompt such political discussion. i think the general consensus is to not buy a prius.

 

[television]

Yet we still manage to buy Mercedes, overpriced houses, luxury goods and take foreign holidays...

Do not Women come into your reckoning, or do they come under luxury goods

 

[prwales]

Do not Women come into your reckoning, or do they come under luxury goods

they are not commodities, perhaps they should be allowed to decide for themselves

 

[jasonyw]

a hybrid is like sitting on the fence, with two engines that why it so expensive even though they used cheap light components to lower the cost.

this is not the answer.

what will happen to you analogue tuner in your tv when they finally switch off the analogue signals? the tv is still useable.

the hybrid will be useless, without the combustion engines, so why the bureaucrats are encouraging the purchase of hybrids with nil roadtax and congestion charges? there is something lunatic about the bureacrats.

 

[mercmadjim]

Well I have just bought my wife a Prius...a belting car...more legroom than my BMW, very economical...50 - 55 mpg (real world) and £10 a year road tax, and no congestion charge.....and I personally think its very nice to drive....but hey ho...plus it has Toyota build quality....

 

[dieselman]

Well I have just bought my wife a Prius...a belting car...more legroom than my BMW, very economical...50 - 55 mpg (real world) and £10 a year road tax, and no congestion charge.....and I personally think its very nice to drive....but hey ho...plus it has Toyota the Vmax accelerator pedal....

....:lol:....

 

[television]

.

what will happen to you analogue tuner in your tv when they finally switch off the analogue signals? the tv is still useable.

Simple you buy a digi box for about £20, if you TV is so old that you have no scart, get one with a modulator and then you can still use the tuner in your old TV