Uninsured Drivers

[hawk20]

Heard some interesting titbits today on uninsured drivers. Apparently there are now 2 million of them and covering the cost of the damage they do adds £30 to all our insurance policies.

They are nine times more likley to have a serios accident and ten times more likely to be driving over the limit.

Someone needs to come up with ideas on how to reduce this serious problem.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Heard some interesting titbits today on uninsured drivers. Apparently there are now 2 million of them and covering the cost of the damage they do adds £30 to all our insurance policies.

They are nine times more likely to have a serious accident and ten times more likely to be driving over the limit.

Someone needs to come up with ideas on how to reduce this serious problem.

Think positively. Look how much better our statistical risks get having bought insurance. I can't wait to buy some more.

 

[jberks]

Think positively. Look how much better our statistical risks get having bought insurance. I can't wait to buy some more.

Its true. They'll probably have some stats to prove that direct line customers are safer drivers and have less accidents than LV ones so you should insure with DL. Clearly someone who is prepared to drive without insurance is, by nature, less averse to other offences so the lack of insurance will just be one small part of their behaviour rather than causal. I suspect they won't have a TV licence either.

On a more serious note, Hawk asks a very good question. How do we stop them?
Well, most will live in certain areas. We have ANPR so lets be honest, its not hard to sort really. I suspect we could get hand held ANPR systems too so a walk round certain areas with such a device and issuing then to meter maids should result in them identifying lots of the buggers. Given that in almost all cases, there won't be a registered keeper, there is little point trying to trace the owner so the cars are then simply taken away, kept for 60 days to ensure there was no mistake, and then crushed.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Well, most will live in certain areas. We have ANPR so lets be honest, its not hard to sort really. I suspect we could get hand held ANPR systems too so a walk round certain areas with such a device and issuing then to meter maids should result in them identifying lots of the buggers.

Sadly, you are correct. But just find me an enforcement person who is prepared to walk around there in a group of less than 4! I suppose you could form teams, including Child Welfare, Social Security special branch, and a Bailiff?

 

[television]

I am sure that many years ago driving without insurance was a disqualification offence. That would help

 

[RiceBurner]

I am sure that many years ago driving without insurance was a disqualification offence. That would help

They're ALREADY driving illegally - making them even more illegal won't stop them.


Basic 3rd party insurance should be included in the mandatory tax disc purchase. ie insurance is run by the government beauracracy and EVERYONE has it automatically.

Extra insurance (fire, theft, fully comp) can be purchased on the open market, as now, but the basic 3rd party bit should NOT be on an open market.

 

[television]

They're ALREADY driving illegally - making them even more illegal won't stop them.


Basic 3rd party insurance should be included in the mandatory tax disc purchase. ie insurance is run by the government beauracracy and EVERYONE has it automatically.

.

This is a catch 22 situation as many of these cars are not taxed anyway

 

[RiceBurner]

This is a catch 22 situation as many of these cars are not taxed anyway

agreed - but if insurance and tax were affordable, more people would buy it.

 

[bigasotonuk]

I believe Australia do the 3rd party insurance thing when you buy road tax, but for this you buy the rights to a number plate for the vehicle.

 

[Dosco]

Hang 'em High

No doubt the recession has had an impact as well as the cost of insurance, but most of us are suffering on that score so I don't accept that as a sole excuse.

As a JP friend told me the majority of cases that pass through his hands are the no hoper's who never have and never will pay for anything the next group are the immigrants who claim not to understand 'our laws' (in one case the man had been here for 9 years!) and yes this group throw in 'discrimination and their rights' for good measure.

You only have to watch these Police 'fly on the wall' programs to get a fair idea who the miscreants are and you just know they will be back on the road within days.

Solution, I wished I had one. I would 'dob' anyone in who I know does not have either the road fund tax, full driving license and insurance.

Before any of the loony left liberal minded soft shoe shuffle brigade say I have no idea what it is to be like in such circumstances, I do indeed having lost everything couldn't afford to run the car so I took it off the road and used my bike and the bus, got off my arris and did something about it - that's better the spleen has been vented the the groins are ready for action

 

[Alex M Grieve]

No doubt the recession has had an impact as well as the cost of insurance, but most of us are suffering on that score so I don't accept that as a sole excuse.

Before any of the loony left liberal minded soft shoe shuffle brigade say I have no idea what it is to be like in such circumstances, I do indeed having lost everything couldn't afford to run the car so I took it off the road and used my bike and the bus, got off my arris and did something about it - that's better the spleen has been vented the the groins are ready for action

Couldn't agree more Roger. As recently married junior hospital doctor in the 1970s I lived 3 miles from hospital and was resident on alternate nights. I could not afford to run my car and there was no public transport.

So I did what would now be called a SORN. I then bought a Gannex raincoat, a hat, a pair of stout shoes and walked, in the snow, sleet and ice.

Why do the current generation who say they can not afford it (but seem to afford alcohol and tobacco) feel that they have "the right" to do for free what you and I have to pay for.

I suppose they would think that what I did was "character building". Perhaps, without the basic ingredients that would not work for them?

 

[Rory]

While it seems attractive, I think adding basic 3rd party insurance to road tax or petrol etc, would result in absolute carnage amongst young lads (and the people they crash in to). Many of them would rush out and buy the biggest engine car they could lay their hands on - and plenty are available. The results don't bear thinking about.

Also, as hawk20 notes, the problem is with drivers, rather than cars - many of the uninsured cars are actually insured hence they don't come up on ANPR. The main problem is that they're insured in someone else's name and but the actual driver isn't covered. This has been noted to be a huge issue in areas such as Bradford, for obvious reasons.

Penalties could be greater - the current typical fine vs the cost of insurance is ridiculous. And then having a no-insurance conviction just makes the drivers premium higher, so makes it even more unlikely that they'll buy insurance.

 

[HJHPH]

They're ALREADY driving illegally - making them even more illegal won't stop them.


Basic 3rd party insurance should be included in the mandatory tax disc purchase. ie insurance is run by the government beauracracy and EVERYONE has it automatically.

Extra insurance (fire, theft, fully comp) can be purchased on the open market, as now, but the basic 3rd party bit should NOT be on an open market.

Not sure I would like to give the Government the option of using the motorist as even more of a cash cow, it would lead to things like further insurance premium tax and any other extras they chose fit. Plus I think the insurers would jack the price right up to some one size fits all premium to cover the miscreants poor driving records.

Why don't we have a visual display like a tax disc to identify insurance details? People could then report cars seen without insurance as well as traffic wardens and police on the beat being able to spot uninsured cars.
Paul.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Not sure I would like to give the Government the option of using the motorist as even more of a cash cow, it would lead to things like further insurance premium tax and any other extras they chose fit. Plus I think the insurers would jack the price right up to some one size fits all premium to cover the miscreants poor driving records.

Why don't we have a visual display like a tax disc to identify insurance details? People could then report cars seen without insurance as well as traffic wardens and police on the beat being able to spot uninsured cars.
Paul.

Some years ago the arguments against this were based on the fact that so many cars were not sporting current tax disks and there seemed to be no remedy for that problem, so adding an insurance element would not have helped.

Surely it is time for this to be revisited now that automatic disk recognition (and prosecution) are now realities?

 

[television]

In Sweden the tax disc is in the middle of the rear plate, the same in Germany, and that even gives the town, simpler that could not be

 

[Dosco]

W

Penalties could be greater - the current typical fine vs the cost of insurance is ridiculous. And then having a no-insurance conviction just makes the drivers premium higher, so makes it even more unlikely that they'll buy insurance.

Totally agree IMO it should represent at least treble the full cost of insurance for the particular vehicle. As far as the car being insured but not covering the driver then the same fine should be applied a triple whammy might just deter all but those who are up to no good anyway.

 

[D1gger5]

My 2p worth:-

1. The cost of insurance for a 20 year old of a £500 Corsa is say >£1k.
- So you buy a cheap legal car and then spend more on insurance than the car is worth.
- Yes I bought a cheap 2nd runabout and it cost 8 times the purchase price to insure it AND I WAS 30!!!
- My friend/neighbour is 25 and has 3 years NCB yet still has to pay over £800 FC on a 7 year old Peugeot diesel.

2. Yes the penalty for driving without insurance is a joke.
- I agree with Dosco but these people will spread the fine out at £5 a week or less and then pay as and when they want.
- I remember a local muppet sliced two brand new tyres on my first car, I HAD TO replace both tyres in order to use the car at a cost of £30 yet he took a year to repay this.

3. ANPR is not the 100% perfect system they make it out to be. Some insurance policies are not on the system, dodgy MOTs at legit garages are and the information they use may noy be the most up to date (being pulled by an unmarked car the day I had re-taxed the car for 12 months).

Introducing ANPR at petrol stations sounds like a good idea but the system is open to fraud (number plate stealing, out of date vehicle data and petrol theft from owners vehicles by the pond life to keep their illegal car going).

Whatever the government do to try and address this will cost us and my concern is more money to fill their coffers with no perceived benefit to Joe Public.

Diggers

 

[DAVE HULL KR]

This is a great site, try it
http://www.askmid.com/ownvehicle/

 

[Blobcat]

This is a great site, try it
http://www.askmid.com/ownvehicle/

My Caravelle isn't on the system, although it is on the DVLA database

 

[PanzerMcGrory]

Someone needs to come up with ideas on how to reduce this serious problem.

We could Zyklon B them with all the other "Useless Mouths" and then they could be useful as we could make lampshades with their skin, boil off and use the fat from their bodies and make charcoal from their incenerated bones.

Or am i being a bit liberal?