W210 320 CDi Transmission Nightmare - On its way out??

[Irresistance]

Hello,

I bought my 1999 W210 E320 CDi a few weeks ago and have driven about 5000KM with it since. On my way home from the place I purchased it (about 400km away) I noticed that it ever so slightly had a gentle delay in shifting from 3rd to 4th. I looked the problem up here and on other forums and someone suggested it is a spring on some valve that can be replaced at some laughable cost of 5 quid. Apparently it deteriorates (collapses on itself?) over time and causes 3rd to 4th shift delay, later also 2nd to 3rd) Please note this only becomes apparent once the car is warm, when its cold shifting seems OK.

Anyhow. Now we are 4500KM further down the road and the transmission is starting to behave very evil indeed:

- During a short drive, it popped into Limp mode upon speedy acceleration taking a turn into a street. Shut down, restart, worked ok. After this event I drove about 500KM with the car, fast, slow, city, transmission was acting fine. Until...

- After driving it for said while I noticed that the delay in shifting from 3rd to 4th has increased, it can now be up to 1.5 seconds, with revs going up before it settles into 4th gear.

- Today did some city driving, again on fast acceleration it just completely lost itself, jumped into emergency mode again. However, WITHOUT RESTART, it cleared itself and went back to normal operation! Needless to say I was worried so I started to accelerate fast all the time (for the remaining 1KM to get home) and, yes, just towards the end again it jumped into emergency mode, stuck in 2nd, no response from tiptronic.

I read elsewhere about a battery problem SAM posted about - the battery appears to be fine, and also, this happened after about 30 minutes driving. I do not get any problems with the transmission that are particular to the first 5 minutes.

Some other things I noticed...

1) The ATF does not appear to be the genuine thing - its not red but yellowish.
2) I do not know the level of ATF.
3) Sometimes I feel a strange power drop (very slight, very briefly) when accelerating (modestly fast) like as if its loosing torque for half a second.


Questions
A) Will replacing the ATF and filter etc possibly cure this?
B) Is my gearbox on its way out??

See I dont want to replace ATF only to find it will need a gearbox service anyway and waste 100-200 quid on some ATF that will go to waste once a gearbox rebuild will need to be done anyhow.

Any suggestions greatly welcome. Only thing I can add is that the car had a power-loss problem (some actuator of the Turbo was loose, caused engine to go into limp mode etc) - this has since been fixed but may have caused the transmission to act strangely as it did not get the power it expected.

Many Thanks.....

 

[Irresistance]

I have done some further testing - 1.5 sec delay is definitely an overestimation, its much quicker - but still a delay, and it has increased over the last 5000KM slightly.

Also drove with Tiptronic only - this seems to function fine. Down, up, all works good, doesnt do anything weird. Still the occasional weird momentary torque loss (or so it feels) but rarely. Tiptronicing from 3 to 4 also produced the delay....

 

[rpe2]

The fluid colour is correct, the red ATF is not used in these boxes.

Your best bet is going to an independent specialist to have any fault codes read.

Likely culprits are:

Box electroplate
Battery (as you suggest) only a drop test will give you a relevant reading
Engine air flow sensor
something else!

Before going up any of these routes, get any codes read.

 

[brandwooddixon]

The gearbox can self destruct without fault codes being stored. A check of the amount of metal in theoil is the best indication.

An independent specialist should give you a better answer, but be prepared to pay for them to drop the sump, inspect it and replace the oil.

 

[Irresistance]

I've made an appointment with a Mercedes STAR dude, unfortunately not until Monday... bit of a pain to wait for so long, especially since I got another 400KM trip that I MUST do.. family thing...

Ah well - we'll see what codes he will come up with

 

[Irresistance]

Also, I am curious - what generally are signs that an automatic transmission in this car is on its way out...? Just so I can watch for such signs....

 

[dtaxi]

HI i am new here i am having the same problems with my 01 w210 320cdi as yourself. IT was in main dealers today all day did not get the code off them ,But they said it is the speed sensor that is located over the transmission box.Its on order know and will be done on tue.. they have to drain transmision fluid to get in to it so they will put in new fillter and fluid so hopefuly it will be ok then.Maybe you can ask someone here for the code of the speed sensor and if it comes on monday you will know.

 

[Cole@MBS]

Common fault im sorry to say, happens across the whole range.

Welcome to the forums

 

[television]

Its not that expensive,,at around £325 all in with new fluid and filter

 

[Irresistance]

Hi DTaxi, thanks for your post. I hope that is all that there will be to it. It also seems to sort of make sense when I think about the symptoms and the assumed function the speed sensor has...

Please keep me posted on the result of your repair. Monday I'll post all the codes I am getting so we can be sure. Certainly beats a rebuild! Many thanks...

 

[Irresistance]

Hey.... just thought of something. About a week ago my rear-parktronic stopped functioning. I had it checked by the MB workshop but they told me that this was an aftermarket solution and so they could not fix it but...

Could this be an indication theelectroplate is indeed on its way out? Does it control the "I am now going backwards, engage rear parktronic"-sensor?

I am almost starting to hope that this is the problem coz it would neatly fix everything and basically make my car fault-free

 

[rpe2]

No, no connecton.

 

[Irresistance]

Allright well - did a transmission service, turns out the oil in it was total crap... so they had to flush it and get rid of the old gunk... anyway - also replaced the sensor electronics, and must say transmission is better but still not optimal. When warm it still has a delay shifting from 3 to 4. However it revs higher on accelerating fast, and overall seems to work better.

A part of me cant help but think the improvements are mostly due to the oil being correct, although the fact it revs higher and seems to accelerate smoother seems like something that is helped by correct/working sensors... so I am trying to convince myself the repair was correct and needed. The codes I got were 110 (times 14) and 146 (not sure how many times)

There was absolutely NO metal in the oil at all by the way, they checked it.

My MB computer guru told me that 110 indicates possible sensor failure (unplausibel drehzahl or something or other) whereas 146 apparently is a more evil codes indicating transmission is not happy and may need a rebuild. However he also said I would first need to address 110 to make sure the sensor failure does not subsequently cause 146.

Anyways. Its still not optimal. I did not get any transmission limp modes anymore although I havent REALLY pushed it by doing foot down crash speed accelerations. I have purchased a new MAF (only 60 quid here, pretty good!) and will be fitting it shortly. Later today going for another analisis as the engine DID go into emergency mode twice after a 100KM 150KM/h+ drive on the freeway here.

My thoughts at the moment are faulty MAF or stuffed catalysator... the latter would also fit nicely with the fact the car "only" does 220-225 KM/h and not 245.... we shall see...

 

[dtaxi]

Hi DTaxi, thanks for your post. I hope that is all that there will be to it. It also seems to sort of make sense when I think about the symptoms and the assumed function the speed sensor has...

Please keep me posted on the result of your repair. Monday I'll post all the codes I am getting so we can be sure. Certainly beats a rebuild! Many thanks...

Well little up date been off the road for the last few weeks sick so went to the garage last week to fit speed sensor and service the box got a big shock aluminium filings in the sump cleaned them out put box back together with new sensor everything 100% till the oil warms up then back to same old problem went to main dealer no choice know but to get the box and torque converter reconditioned,so me not a happy camper

 

[television]

Well little up date been off the road for the last few weeks sick so went to the garage last week to fit speed sensor and service the box got a big shock aluminium filings in the sump cleaned them out put box back together with new sensor everything 100% till the oil warms up then back to same old problem went to main dealer no choice know but to get the box and torque converter reconditioned,so me not a happy camper

Shame sadly these things do happen

 

[dtaxi]

Tell me about it but how and ever we will march on.

 

[turbopete]

if that ever happens to mine its getting converted! surely a manual box from a 270cdi or something similar will fit a 300td engine and be able to take the strain!

 

[OlafMaxwell]

I have 160k up now and no complaints about the transmission. it has had two fluid changes though. I have been told that the frequency of changes should increase as it gets older and I think the next change for mine is now 40k miles.