W210 Front Tyres Worn on Inside - Suspension?

[turbopete]

>>not needing to be loaded up!

The spec varies between cars - some do need to be loaded up.

What doesn't vary is that almost nowhere actually does load the car correctly before taking measurements.

quite correct. to be honest though, in my experience, most places never check camber or kpi (king pin inclination) anyhow, so for just an alignment check it makes little or no difference! its when you get into technical stuff like camber etc things need to be checked under the correct conditions, im sure wheels in motion will agree?!

 

[wheels-inmotion]

quite correct. to be honest though, in my experience, most places never check camber or kpi (king pin inclination) anyhow, so for just an alignment check it makes little or no difference! its when you get into technical stuff like camber etc things need to be checked under the correct conditions, im sure wheels in motion will agree?!

The only load requirement on all MB's is fuel (no additional weights required) other than sundries, like floor mats, spare wheel and alike needs to be respected though.

The addition of fuel is only relates to the castor position (mainly) so that the body rake can be added to the datum.

The problems members have come from different areas.... I'll try and explain..

Most tyre shops will only measure the secondary angles, these are

*Front/ rear, camber/ toe

The Primary angles like
* Castor
* SAI (Steering Axis Inclination)
* Set back (front/ rear)
* Lateral off-sets
* Off-sets
And many more don't get measured and if they do the vital ingredient that's so important to the MB is also missed and that's the "disparities" between the angles....

It's these disparities that hold all the complains causing pulling problems, but due to the shops ignorance this is often overlooked.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>it makes little or no difference!

It depends upon how much bump steer there is, which in turn is down to the relationship between the position of the inner and outer track rod bearings relative to the suspension pivot points.

As on most MBs, the inner track rod ball joint when straight head is very close (in a frontal view) to the inner wishbone bush axes, there's very little bump steer on our cars.

 

[too_juicey]

All very interesting stuff chaps, I will report back once mine has been done next week - camber, load / unload, king pins, pimps and all...

 

[turbopete]

correction to my above post. as has been pointed out by wheels in motion (in a way) and noted by myself, as cars dont have king pins anymore, kpi (kingpin inclination) seems to be known as steering axis inclination nowadays! many thanks for the update! as for set backs and off sets, i dont remember those being mentioned at college. we had castor, camber, kpi (now sai) toe and toot (toe out on turns!) maybe i just need more knowledge updates, whether i use the updates (to my brain) or not!!!

 

[wheels-inmotion]

correction to my above post. as has been pointed out by wheels in motion (in a way) and noted by myself, as cars dont have king pins anymore, kpi (kingpin inclination) seems to be known as steering axis inclination nowadays! many thanks for the update! as for set backs and off sets, i dont remember those being mentioned at college. we had castor, camber, kpi (now sai) toe and toot (toe out on turns!) maybe i just need more knowledge updates, whether i use the updates (to my brain) or not!!!

KPI, AKA SAI, is the same thing, different terminology -v- technology. Areas like set-back, lateral off-set and geometric centre line are used as diagnostic tools (triangulation)

More interesting are areas like toot and Ackerman, plus a smattering of Scrub radius and contact migration in situations like transition and lat acc really play with your mind.

 

[turbopete]

oh well, maybe im not as far out of date as i thought!!! just a few abbreviations have changed! and probably the measuring equipment too, by now!!!

 

[haroonz7]

Does anyone know of any places in west Yorkshire who do the full chamber and 4 wheel alignment?

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Does anyone know of any places in west Yorkshire who do the full chamber and 4 wheel alignment?

That's a hard call because most centres have inconsitant reviews.... let me explain.

Some years back i offered "trusted centres" around the UK. These proven places historically gave good results but!... Policing those centres became a mare because i found the in-house expert would leave and then the junior was doing the calibrations. We would be totally unaware of this development and i would get complaints from owners because we "trusted the centre".

Needless to say we no longer have trusted centres but. If you enter your postcode into this site > http://www.alignmycar.co.uk/ it will find the nearest place to you with the correct type of machine, if you then email me the contact details i will approve the centre and set up a live link to ensure the calibration goes problem free.

That's the best i can offer.

 

[too_juicey]

All Done!

I popped into Wheels In Motion last week and the car was checked over. As suspected the geometry was OUT by a significant amount. On my car this required the fitting of two adjustment bolts, and they did not have them in stock! There was the risk of another 250 mile round trip...

However, the RS4 was fired off to Aylesbury at 4pm on a Monday afternoon and returned with the bolts. Within 30 minutes the car was set up and I was out.

The adjustments have been made, but I was told they were still slightly out as the maximum has been reached, and hence other parts may need to be replaced, but the variation was so small it does not warrant any further expenditure.

As for the difference in driving? To be honest, none, the car is as before with he exception that there is a little less pull to the left. I did not expect to see any difference.

The workshop, team, and the tools are first class - no doubt about it. The science is confusing and I do not understand the printouts, but they seem to know their stuff. Price was £120+VAT for the adjustment and 2 bolts - bargain.

Thanks, recommended to other MB owners.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>The science is confusing and I do not understand the printouts

While I'm sure Wheels in Motion do a good job, have good kit, etc, etc, there is a tendancy to baffle and confuse the technical issues at every possible opportunity rather than to really explain what's going on in a transparent and meaningful way. You can read it clearly in the posts above.

This is meant as helpful feedback WIM - please back off the faux technical BS - for those who don't know about the technical aspects of cars, it's simply baffling and off-putting, and for those who do..., well they'll form their own opinions.

The "science" such as it is is bluntly simple - all that's going on is the relative position and angles of the four wheels are checked and adjusted - no more, no less. It just happens that there aren't many places who consistently do this work correctly.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

>>The science is confusing and I do not understand the printouts

While I'm sure Wheels in Motion do a good job, have good kit, etc, etc, there is a tendancy to baffle and confuse the technical issues at every possible opportunity rather than to really explain what's going on in a transparent and meaningful way. You can read it clearly in the posts above.

This is meant as helpful feedback WIM - please back off the faux technical BS - for those who don't know about the technical aspects of cars, it's simply baffling and off-putting, and for those who do..., well they'll form their own opinions.

The "science" such as it is is bluntly simple - all that's going on is the relative position and angles of the four wheels are checked and adjusted - no more, no less. It just happens that there aren't many places who consistently do this work correctly.

"faux technical BS" that's a bit strong isn't it..... Historically MB make cars that pull, historically we stop that, i'm sorry if my explanation's how are BS.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>Where are you surfing this from ?

I'm "surfing" nothing.

 

[EGBM]

I don't think it's faux technical BS, N_C, wheels in motion know their stuff.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

I don't think it's faux technical BS, N_C, wheels in motion know their stuff.

Yes, I'm not saying they are poor at their work, I'm not saying that they aren't one of the few places that can make MBs go in a straight line. The practical aspects of what they do are beyond reproach.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Yes, I'm not saying they are poor at their work, I'm not saying that they aren't one of the few places that can make MBs go in a straight line. The practical aspects of what they do are beyond reproach.

Then why do you kick wim at every opportunity? I dare not post without legal advice...

I confess my grammar construction is poor but nevertheless i do try to explain things as best i can, chassis dynamics could never be an easy read however dumb the explanation.

I'm some 30yrs in this field, have a million pound centre and always worked for the common man (us) I was associated with TDi-PLC and gained Pro-Drive credits. I have wim calibrated race cars in BDC, EDC, Pro-Drift, Time attack, Toyota sprint, two second places in last weeks T/A.

I've had several centre profiles including Lotus and Ferrari, I set the lead car for Japanese Performance Magazine and a few for the canon ball run USA.

Well all that's just dandy but what really matters is that i do "try" and help members here with a difficult topic, few others in my industry would bother to be interactive.

Gallery> http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/simplegallery.php?id=3&button2=View+Gallery

 

[television]

Then why do you kick wim at every opportunity? I dare not post without legal advice...

I confess my grammar construction is poor but nevertheless i do try to explain things as best i can, chassis dynamics could never be an easy read however dumb the explanation.

I'm some 30yrs in this field, have a million pound centre and always worked for the common man (us) I was associated with TDi-PLC and gained Pro-Drive credits. I have wim calibrated race cars in BDC, EDC, Pro-Drift, Time attack, Toyota sprint, two second places in last weeks T/A.

I've had several centre profiles including Lotus and Ferrari, I set the lead car for Japanese Performance Magazine and a few for the canon ball run USA.

Well all that's just dandy but what really matters is that i do "try" and help members here with a difficult topic, few others in my industry would bother to be interactive.

Gallery> http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/simplegallery.php?id=3&button2=View+Gallery

I think that you do a great job, and most of us feel that way. I got a little upset at NC on some post and did feel the same way at some stage, but like all of us here, he tells things the way that he see's them. With many post, there must be a within reason applied to them, setting up a car is no mean feat and not easily explained, you could spend hours writing something out only to find that it is not understood by the OP.

Please just carry on as normal, your post are very much appreciated

 

[wheels-inmotion]

@ television

I understand members frustration, it's a hard call, i could explain the topic and lose the viewer or remain vague and be deemed as a fool.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>few others in my industry would bother to be interactive.

Yes, that's appreciated, but, fundamentally, what you're up to is advertising your business.

>>chassis dynamics could never be an easy read however dumb the explanation.

I think that's true if you need to describe the detailled mathematics, or abstract concepts which have no tangible aspect - roll centre, for an example. However, most of the basic wheel angle settings which form the bulk of the discussion on sites like this aren't too difficult to describe.

 

[roofless]

I don't care who's right or wrong but i still enjoyed this thread :lol: