W211 Geometry/TRacking Issues v Value of Car

[John Laidlaw]

It was at W-I-M. I just dug the invoice out - it was in 2010 so I suppose prices have changed and maybe W-I-M have gone up in the world.

They were regarded as the "go-to" people then though. To be honest, there was no particular "show" (I'm not sure that's the right expression, but anyway) when I took the car there. It was all pretty brief - as said previously, they said it looked pretty good and just adjusted the toe. There was no suggestion of camber bolts etc. It still rolls on lock in whichever direction the road camber is, and it still doesn't feel "planted" on the road.


Basic 4 wheel alignment is pretty cheap bearing in mind the kit and time required - I've used both the place in Liverpool mentioned in the thread for a check on my car after I had new tyres and the place in Ledsham where I got my daughter's car done. Both charged £35+VAT. The owner of the place in Ledsham seemed astonished I'd come so far - I'm 16 miles away, and that's the long way around!


I should say I would cheerfully give someone £300 if my car could be made to track straight on the motorway and feel "planted" (and without messing up tyre wear). I've learned to live with now, but holding the car to right on motorways is quite wearing. Luckily I only use it a couple of times per month.

Yip, it’s the car clinic in Ledsham (or Ellesmere Port it’s in the middle of the country), I did suggest to the OP but a bit late.....

 

[cheshireE220]

Yip, it’s the car clinic in Ledsham (or Ellesmere Port it’s in the middle of the country), I did suggest to the OP but a bit late.....

Yes, sadly, a bit late. But they do not do what WIM do. They offer the same service as a local fast-fit independent here offers - Laser Alignment with a Hunter jig - no parts are stocked, and for a W211, it requires camber bolts at £30 each + VAT. Definitely needs two, maybe more. It may require other bits depending on what else needs adjustment. They will set it as per factory data in the Hunter database. My settings are bespoke to dial out the aggressive castor and staggered toe. WIM have identified the issue with these cars on their website:

https://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/mercedes-pulling-problems.php

No mention anywhere on their website of prices. You have to ring and find out before committing to it.

 

[Rory]

Yes, sadly, a bit late. But they do not do what WIM do. They offer the same service as a local fast-fit independent here offers - Laser Alignment with a Hunter jig - no parts are stocked,

Yes, that's true. The Ledsham place was fine for just a routine wheel alignment, but you need someone who knows what they're doing if they're changing camber bolts etc. Maybe I was expecting too much of WIM as I think the issue of rolling on more and more lock is unique to W203's.

 

[cheshireE220]

My tyres did not arrive today! But hopefully tomorrow and then I will see if it has taken out the wobble at low speed and improved the much slower drifting and pull to the left as WIM stated. As the car is not running factory settings, it will achieve nothing taking it at a future to a fast-fit alignment outfit - they will just adjust back to factory (assuming they enter the correct model - the first guy locoally had put in W210 2000-2003 for my car - of course it was miles out!). For the Porsche I used Centre Gravity:

http://www.centregravity.co.uk/

These guys (Chris and Pete) are superb and set up my Turbo for fast road use. But they would be overkill - they book one car on each of two ramps per day. They can be booked up weeks in advance. Typically the slots start at 4hrs. So looking like £350 - £450 + parts. But very thorough. Unlike WIM, they check in my presence and describe everything they are doing and why.

They check all the steering, suspension and brakes for play and wear anywhere (little point adjusting alignment and geometry with play and wear).

Then road test across several miles with me in it (at which point they already know what is wrong) and the Hunter jig confirms their diagnosis.
Then a discussion around handling characteristics desired (pros and cons of different setting) and then adjustment. Again with me watching it all.

Then a road test after adjustments over several miles on different types of roads with the two of us. Half way through the test he asks me to drive - and I notice the difference straight away. Back to the workshop. Check on the jig again. If I am happy, he raises the invoice. If not, more adjustment to arrive at the characteristics desired. Clearly on a W211 with a We Buy Any Car Valuation of a few hundred pounds, this would be overkill. Some might even say the WIM is overkill. But I like my car to be right or as right as it can be - but cost-effectively. WIM is over-priced versus fast-fit outlets because they complete the work in one hour (90 minutes tops). But they are different - their guys (or the one that worked on my car) seem to know what they are doing and know the theory (as per their website) and the practice of chassis tuning. It is that I guess one is paying for. I did not feel confident with the local fast fit or indeed the MB main dealer saying could be up to 5 hrs!

 

[cheshireE220]

Closing Report:
I had the new tyres fitted yesterday. The steering wheel wobble has completely disappeared as Joe said it would (due to shot front tyres). The car tracks a straight line perfectly and holds it for some time before slowly starting to drift to the left. I rang WIM and spoke to Joe who set the car up (as per his request) and let him know the result with the new tyres. 2 New front Good Year Efficient Grip Performance and 1 x n/s/r Mich Energy Saver replaced with GY Eff Grip Performance - so running GY tyres all-round.
The slow drift to the left is normal - due to the camber/crown of the road. Before the car within 2 seconds hands off the wheel was gonna hit the kerb with a vicious pull to the left if I let go off the wheel. Now it tracks a straight line for a lot longer, no vicious pull to the left. Just a gentle drift requiring minor light touch correction. The wobbling steering wheel has gone altogether. The castor effect is much better - the wheel self straightens coming out of roundabouts with ease if I hold it lightly.

The under tray was checked - it had not lost any bolts. The rear part of the tray was not engaged into the slot pushing the front down. The tyre guy pushed the rear in and the front came back up. I checked the underside of the car. Noticed the trays were secure (got the tyre fitter to check the undertray bolts). I also noticed that the bracket holding the long section of the exhaust pipe had corroded and broken. I took it to a local garage who looked at it and booked it in for next week to get a bracket made up and welded to the exhaust (which is in perfect condition - looks stainless steel or aluminium?).

All told, WIM advice and promise were spot-on. He could fix my car in 90 minutes tops. He actually did it in 65 minutes. I was out in 90 mins after the car was put on the ramp. Why MB thought it could take as long as 5 hrs and require cutting other bits is a mystery. I asked if he thinks we should check the setting again again with new tyres. Joe stated he does not need to see the vehicle again to check after the new tyres. The settings are geometry and would not change with tyres. The tyres could prevent the settings having the desired correction created by the bespoke settings.

He suggested getting an annual check - which I will do. I don't mind the drive - as long as I am dealing with people who know what they are doing - which WIM definitely do.

I recommend them:

https://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/wheels-alignment.php

The price ain't cheap - but a one-stop fix is worth it. I'll have the exhaust bracket sorted next week and the car is good to go for many more miles - its only on 138.6k.

I will look to have it serviced and maintained by an independent specialist (@£70/hr labour) as well as my local garage (@£45/hr labour) from now on - aim is to have cost-effective motoring and maintenance. I won't skimp on having it done properly.
I still tend to go for MB parts and the indy specialist will use MB parts for servicing as well as MB fluids for Brake Fluid change (SBC system) and ATF and MB diff oil. The diff oil has never been changed. Might look into having that as well as the auto box fluid changed later this year.

 

[JBell]

I will look to have it serviced and maintained by an independent specialist (@£70/hr labour) as well as my local garage (@£45/hr labour) from now on - aim is to have cost-effective motoring and maintenance. I won't skimp on having it done properly.
I still tend to go for MB parts and the indy specialist will use MB parts for servicing as well as MB fluids for Brake Fluid change (SBC system) and ATF and MB diff oil. The diff oil has never been changed. Might look into having that as well as the auto box fluid changed later this year.

Sounds a good plan moving forward, search E-Bay for MB oil, it is staggeringly cheap

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-L-Gen...039105?hash=item1c6d8cf701:g:4n0AAOSwy-5b0CEg

Also keep your eye out for deals by Grangemouth Mercedes a forum sponsor, they often do deals on genuine filters etc

 

[cheshireE220]

I thought Mercedes only recommend Petronas lubricants? The link takes me to some generic lubricants branded as Mercedes genuine. But MB dont make lubricants - they use Petronas and that's what they sell as top-up oils.

 

[LostKiwi]

I thought Mercedes only recommend Petronas lubricants? The link takes me to some generic lubricants branded as Mercedes genuine. But MB dont make lubricants - they use Petronas and that's what they sell as top-up oils.

If it comes from a Mercedes dealership I'm happy enough to use it (and that eBay seller is MB Newcastle).

 

[Wighty]

I thought Mercedes only recommend Petronas lubricants? The link takes me to some generic lubricants branded as Mercedes genuine. But MB dont make lubricants - they use Petronas and that's what they sell as top-up oils.

Fuchs do an oil for the rear diff , about £11-12L ish , you will need two 1L bottles , apparently factory fill when they are new

 

[JBell]

If it comes from a Mercedes dealership I'm happy enough to use it (and that eBay seller is MB Newcastle).

Exactly, it is in my car, my mothers car and many more cars on this forum. The service from Merc Newcastle has been excellent

 

[cheshireE220]

If it comes from a Mercedes dealership I'm happy enough to use it (and that eBay seller is MB Newcastle).

I'd be surprised that MB dealers would be selling it on ebay......

 

[cheshireE220]

Fuchs do an oil for the rear diff , about £11-12L ish , you will need two 1L bottles , apparently factory fill when they are new

Fuchs lubricants are of the highest quality - they gte many mentions on the Porsche forum. Is the diff lifetime fill or o they recommend change fluid at certain intervals for a W211?

 

[JBell]

I'd be surprised that MB dealers would be selling it on ebay......

Prepare to be surprised!!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/mercedesbenzofnewcastle?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

 

[cheshireE220]

Prepare to be surprised!!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/mercedesbenzofnewcastle?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Suprised indeed!

 

[JBell]

Suprised indeed!

I bought the Air filters from Mercedes Benz Edinburgh E-Bay shop:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/mercedesbenzofedinburgh?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754

£65, MB Exeter want £180, took 5 mins to fit them, genuine MB parts

 

[Wighty]

Fuchs lubricants are of the highest quality - they gte many mentions on the Porsche forum. Is the diff lifetime fill or o they recommend change fluid at certain intervals for a W211?

It’s only a listed change on the 6.3L type cars , but it’s such a cheap job if the cars on a ramp already . I do it as a diy job on my cars roughly every 40k when the gearbox atf and filter are done . I think any oil should be changed at some point

 

[cheshireE220]

I bought the Air filters from Mercedes Benz Edinburgh E-Bay shop:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/mercedesbenzofedinburgh?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754

£65, MB Exeter want £180, took 5 mins to fit them, genuine MB parts

I have all my invoices from MB Macclesfield and I have never been charged £180 for an air filter....

 

[Wighty]

I have all my invoices from MB Macclesfield and I have never been charged £180 for an air filter....

He has the 350cdi engine , twin air filters . The £180 is for MB do do it , they use Star to inform the car it has new filters

 

[JBell]

He has the 350cdi engine , twin air filters . The £180 is for MB do do it , they use Star to inform the car it has new filters

They are quite large

 

[Wighty]

Slight thread resurrection , but does anyone have a link (or part numbers) for the W211 camber bolts , I might buy some if I can get them cheaper than WIM supply them .
Might take a drive to see them at some point .