722.699 W211 E220 Automatic Transmission Comparison (2002 vs 2005)

[Mughul]

Hello guys, I am new to this forum and I need your professional advice and feedback about replacing and fitting the automatic transmission and torque converter with flywheel from a 2005 W211 E220 (110 kW/150 Hp) CDi (please see picture) into my 2002 W211 E220 (110 kW/150 Hp) CDi.

Please take some time to read the following information of both the cars, received through VIN decoder, and kindly tell me if they are compatible or not? Do I need any other details before I go for my replacement/fitting?

RECEIVER MB details:
E-Class (W211) 2148 cm³ (110 kW/150 Hp) CDi, 2002
VIN code: WDB 211006 1A0 XXXXX
Engine no.: 646.961 30 XXXXXX
Transmission: 722699 03 707 XXX [transmission Type = GA]
Order number: 0 2 523 XXXXX
Car delivery date: 11/06/2002
Market: AG,Europe (LHD)
Original mileage: 234 100 KM

DONOR MB details:
E-Class (W211) 2148 cm³ (110 kW/150 Hp) CDi, 2005
VIN code: WDB 211006 2A8 XXXXX
Engine no.: 646.961 30 XXXXXX
Transmission: 722699 06 176 XXX [transmission Type = GA]
Order number: 0 5 537 XXXXX
Car delivery date: 14/07/2005
Market: AG,Europe (RHD)
Original mileage: 134 566 KM

Other than the above info, I also have the following codes/numbers from my MB transmission:

Transmission/gearbox code: A211 2701 400
Torque Converter code: A211 2500 402 80

The DONOR car gearbox/TC code are unclear to read (that's why I like to know if it will still fit to my car or not?).

When replacing the whole used gearbox, what is more important for me to know before the replacement? do the codes printed on my car transmission/torque converter need to match the replacement gearbox? or is it just the first 6 digits of the engine no and transmission number that matters?).

 

[television]

That must fit perfectly, it will have later part number and any updates.

 

[Mughul]

I knew it!

That must fit perfectly, it will have later part number and any updates.

Hello television, my guts were telling me that you would be the first to reply. I have read countless number of your posts where you have helped people in desperate situation. Thank you for your quickie, indeed!

Rephrasing your reply, you are saying with full confidence that it will fit perfectly and shall have no negative impact whatsoever on my car, right? and I can also use the same replacement Torque Converter and Flywheel from the 2005 W211 E220 CDi, right?

Okay then what about the code numbers that my gearbox and torque converter have? (which are not visible from the used box) when do one need to match those numbers?

AND what do you mean by "it will have later part number and any updates"?

Just one more reply needed from you (to clear my confused thoughts), and I am on my way to order this used Transmission today

 

[television]

The basic numbers are the first ones, the last numbers are the updates, parts get updated all the time, you can use the converter from the later 05 car, they are near enough identical cars.

The chances are that the 05 gearbox will be better and more up to date, though you may not notice any difference.

From the info that you posted they are both the same.

 

[Mughul]

INFO: History behind buying the replacement 722.699 W211 E220 Automatic Transmission!

Thanks, Malcolm. I have placed my order

==============
PROBLEM STATEMENT:
==============

My car is driven a total of 234,100 kilometers and, few days back, I started facing a gear slipping problem with my W211 2002 E220CDi (110Kw/150Hp) auto gearbox (after changing the ATF (4 liter febi nr. 29449 or 236.14), gearbox filter, the electrical plug, seals, oil pan gasket, and the electrical conductor plate). I also changed the motor oil 5W-30, the oil filter, and a bad glow plug (NOTE: one of the RELAY point current shows a high volt so the light does not go off after cold start, but turn off when the engine reaches 20c or above. I need to replace the relay). Total cost EUR 850.

After driving approx. 200 kilometers (during 15 days - city driving) my gearbox looses drive on the road and engine just revs (it happened soon after a very slow whining/hissing/whistle type of sound from the engine compartment). I pulled over are parked the vehicle. After some wait I started the car and put the car in D. It moved nicely but the gear power died after a kilometer. Again, the engine was running smoothly but car was not moving in any gear (not even going up+ or down- with the tiptronic function) thus leaving me crying on the road. One strange thing I noticed that when I put the car into R it wanted to move forward. Realizing something seriously bad, I stopped the car and called the towing company who took it to the workshop where they scanned the car via Delphi DS150e and gave me following 3 fault DTCs (P2502, P220A, and P2500).

P2502 - The gear is implausible or the transmission is slipping
P220A - The speed comparison of Y3/6n2 to Y3/6n3 is implausible
P2500 - The transmission has an impermissible transmission ratio

For the last few days I went on to search the entire Google database from top to toe but could not find the exact solution to this problem. There were all sort of mixed and confusing replies. Some people started their thread but then no one was able to solve the issue or people vanished without the conclusion.

My mechanic, who is also a certified local MB tech, said its probably due to the problem related to my Automatic Transmission 722.6 gear box AND/OR Torque Converter (TC). I was asking him if it can be some electrical problem (maybe faulty ECU EGS52, TCU or some other electrical component or sensors (even MAF, burned fuse, etc), valeo radiator, etc), which I was reading online. But due to lack of my evidence, I was in no position to support my DIY online research.

That's why I started to search for a used 722.699 gearbox with TC. Damn, the cost of a used gearbox in Finland goes somewhere between EUR 1500-2000!

=======================
VISIT TO MBS FOR STAR DIAGNOSIS
=======================

Finally, when I was tired of my DIY search, I took my car from the workshop to the MB showroom (my mechanic was in his JEEP following me behind my car with a tow bar ready in his vehicle, if in case we needed the tow). My car was running in Limp Mode (50km/h), so it managed to reach the destination. The MB dealer kept the car for a day, scanned it with SDS and finally gave me their verdict for a cost of EUR 200. They gave me a price quotation of EUR 2000-2500 :evil: And can anybody guess what their verdict was?

 

[alexanderfoti]

This code:

P220A - The speed comparison of Y3/6n2 to Y3/6n3 is implausible

Would tell me that the speed sensor is failing in the electroplate, but, as you say there are weird noses coming from the box as well, it is very possible it could be mechanical, as you say.

 

[Mughul]

Alas! I wish the problem would have been the P220A!

This code:

P220A - The speed comparison of Y3/6n2 to Y3/6n3 is implausible

Would tell me that the speed sensor is failing in the electroplate, but, as you say there are weird noses coming from the box as well, it is very possible it could be mechanical, as you say.

Thanks Alexander, for your comment. The first time I heard this weird noise (just like some air coming out of an empty pipe) from the engine was before I changed the Electronic Conductor Plate (ECP), ATF, filter, etc. The car resisted to move so I had to tow it to the workshop.

But after changing ECP, and driving for another 15 days with freedom, this noise came back. Both these time, right after this noise the transmission stopped acting normally (No power in D or R). I did raised this issue of faulty Speed sensors and TCC solenoid to the MB dealer, but my voice got ignored in front of their STAR diagnosis report, which was indeed not in my favor!

However, one thing I did noticed was when I picked the car in the morning from the MBS, after they did the SDS test and cleared the fault codes, it drove nicely while the engine was cold. But when the engine got warm and the temperature reached between 70c - 80c the same old symptom came back. At that time I was driving at 60km/h and my foot was on accelerator when all of a sudden the RPM needle went high and the car lost the supreme power

So I parked the vehicle in an empty parking space at the roadside, while it was moving slowly, left it there and came back at night. As the engine was cold and temperature was again at 0c, it drove just like a brand new sedan, lol. Now it's parked in my parking place, waiting for the replacement gearbox to arrive and then I will take it to the workshop to get it fixed.

 

[Mughul]

This actually happened on the Day of Judgement!

Hello members, I took some time to make and then upload a video on YouTube for you to see what actually happened with my W211 E220 in real time. I hope this will tell the exact story and also give people some idea on how to react in such a situation. Please comment if necessary. Thanks!

YouTube VDO!
W211, E220 CDI Avantgarde | Loss of Power and Torque in D & R

 

[television]

Could be the pump or so many things.

 

[Mughul]

How can one be sure of this?

Could be the pump or so many things.

Okay Malcolm, here is the STAR diagnosis report that I got from the MB dealer for your reference. I did the poor translation from FIN to ENG:

===============
Problem: Transmission is not operating properly
> Troubleshooting settlement> universal tester comes to the conductor plate -.> It is reportedly changed by the owner.

The transmission fault codes are not in our SDS tester.
"But the oil was very low."

Performed reset and repair of oil.

> Experience a high-speed pass finds the car rounds rotation. ->
The problem with the car is the turbine/torque converter, which is faulty.

Quick test performance
0054101101
Automatic transmission.
Audit (Following the rapid test)
0027064001
Automatic gearbox oil level.
Inspection and repair of the correct
0027125501
Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF 132 1L S 12
A001989680310

Surprisingly, the following three DTC "P2502; P220A; and P2500" did not came on the SDS, nor they were saved in the TCU/ECU memory

But based on their report the final verdict of the MB tech was that it is the problem with the "Torque Converter." On my request they gave me this part number: A211 250 0402 80!

The MB dealer also gave a quote of EUR 2000-2500 for a new TC in exchange of the old one. On the internet, a re-manufactured TC in Finland is EUR 520 + shipping and from Germany 466 + shipping. A used one on ebay is about EUR 250 to 350 + shipping. That's why I decided to go for a complete used set of 722.699 Transmission+TC+flywheel from a 2005 W211 E220 CDi car that is driven less then 150k km!

Besides, my question is "How much one can trust the STAR report? is it a final diagnosis or is there a room to by pass and find the potential fault through other means?"

By the way, today I started the car and went for a short drive. It is running great. But as I was scared of loosing the power, and standing in middle of the road, so I came back within 10 min and parked it in my parking place :roll: What a nightmare I am having with my W211!

 

[Mughul]

The Basics of Automatic Transmission Troubleshooting

When problems arise in an Automatic Transmission, it’s very important that people should know the proper steps of transmission troubleshooting. Otherwise, they could be guessing at a problem their transmission might not have, wasting both time and money to get it fixed.

Here is a useful chart, that I came across recently during my online research, of common AT problems and what causes them:

Hope this will help other members to troubleshoot their AT problem.

As per the STAR report, it looks like that my problem falls under "Clicking or Whining Noise"

NOTE:
I forgot to mention that few times I also did experienced a light shudder sensation in my vehicle while driving at low speed (I felt this vibration was coming beneath the gear lever and it only occurred when the engine was cold). I was reading somewhere that very often this problem is related to a torque converter.

A torque converter shudder is a brief shake or shudder in the vehicle when internal clutches apply inside the torque converter. This application of clutches is referred as "lock-up." As fluid flows through the torque converter, so if it fails to do that then the transmission will act funny and transmission slipping is often a symptom. Often this problem is mis-diagnosed and sometimes people needlessly rebuild or replace transmissions as a result.

Hmm :-? I guess it's time to think more deeply and to do more research!

 

[television]

One still must not forget the effects of glycol, this can raise the faces of the clutches causing judder, this could be down to the fact that the car once had the leaking radiator problem. Often the rad got changed, but nothing else.

The glycol does not affect the changes.

 

[Mughul]

One still must not forget the effects of glycol, this can raise the faces of the clutches causing judder, this could be down to the fact that the car once had the leaking radiator problem. Often the rad got changed, but nothing else.

The glycol does not affect the changes.

Thanks for your reply, Malcolm. I wonder why the MB dealer did not mentioned anything in their report about the glycol contamination? Were they not supposed to check that part or at-least recommend me for a Glycol test?

Well before fitting the replacement gearbox, do I need to change this radiator, even if it does not leak?

 

[television]

The symptoms for glycol are a humming or droning when pulling lightly in top at engine RPM of between 1500 and 2500. Many would get the new rad and have the gearbox flushed, hoping that the converter clutches would settle down.

 

[Mughul]

I don't hear any such noise, but I am not sure!

The symptoms for glycol are a humming or droning when pulling lightly in top at engine RPM of between 1500 and 2500. Many would get the new rad and have the gearbox flushed, hoping that the converter clutches would settle down.

Malcolm, I know this glycol contamination is caused by Valeo radiator and my car built date is June 2002, so it might have such a radiator (unless replaced by previous owner). But still I can't confirm as the serial number sticker has faded. Is there any other way to identify about the make?

With regard to the noise, is it audible only while driving or one can hear at idle speed as well? please see my Youtube video and notice if there is any kind of noise (or any other noise) that I should be worried about? Thanks!

Sound of CDI Engine

 

[television]

Nothing to detect in idle, only when driving. though the rad had been changed and the fault cleared not all cars got a new converter, so in a way without any history its very hard to know. The dealers were told to re adapt the converter as the clutch plate surfaces have raised. Some were OK but some were not, and the car owner put up with it. Since then we can get re con converters at £200

 

[Mughul]

PROBLEM SOLVED / CASE CLOSED!

It's time to thank you all for your advise and valuable input that really helped me to learn a lot about the MB 722.6 transmission. A very special thank to Malcolm for giving me confidence by saying that "the 2005 gearbox must fit perfectly and will be better and more up to date." And he was right on spot

Last month, instead of replacing the faulty torque converter, I made a decision to replace my 2002 transmission (driven 234 100 km) with another used 2005 transmission (driven 134 566 km) that I mentioned in the beginning of this thread. Luckily the replacement gearbox was in very good condition and there was no apparent wear and tear. After draining the oil and dropping the valve body, I found no debris or visible machining swarf deposits on the magnet or any sign of metal flakes/pieces in the pan. The fluid color of 2005 transmission was dark reddish and still somewhat translucent (no sign of overheating/burnt smell). It was not thick as compared to my 2002 transmission fluid.

However, one thing I did noticed was a few tiny little shinny dots of aluminium inside of the pan, but not on the bottom of the filter, and not large enough to become splinters in your finger. After reading a lot about ATF color and metal particles, I believe this is pretty normal?. I will perform another ATF change after 5000km, just to make sure that the gearbox remains in good condition.

I swap the Conductor/Sensor plate from my old transmission (which was already new as I fitted in my old tranny). But I used a new plug adapter, O-rings, pan gasket, filter, and about 7 liters of ATF fluid (MB 236.10). P/S: I did-not used the flush system. To be on the safe side, I also added a bottle of LUBEGARD® Automatic Transmission Fluid Protectant and a tube of Dr. Tranny® Instant Shudder Fixx™.

After this change, the car started smoothly in just one click and did not throw any P type of fault codes. I also performed the STAR transmission adaptation, and now it drives even better with a smooth shift (no noise, no shudder). The labor time was around 4 hours and of course I paid 495 Euro (incl. VAT) for the whole work.

Now I need to fix one old bug, which is the Thermostat, because everyday after driving an hour or so I still get a max. temperature of 60C. Whereas, I think normally it should be somewhere between 80-90C, AM I RIGHT? Well, this job seems to be an easy DIY and I can follow this Youtube video "2005 E320 CDI Thermostat Replacement".

 

[television]

Pleased it all went how you hoped. Yes its running far too cool, change that thermostat and get the temp back up to 90C