Blue efficiency injector problems

[124coupe]

Odd one this. According to the other forum some of those affected have not been contacted. Maybe they will be.

I havent seen anybody post to say they have been contacted proactively (although a few have posted to say dealers couldn't tell them if they were potentially affected) - unless, in Merc-speak, "contacted" means "met at the side of the road by Mobilo"?

 

[tedandmolly]

Hi
Had the problem yesterday morning. Dealer states that it's a 3rd party issue as the injectors where supplied somebody else and MB just fitt them.
They state that they have stopped production until this issue can be resolved. It will take approx 4 weeks to have the new / improved injections fitted in my E250 in the meantime I'll have to suffer a loan S class !

 

[rothbury]

Hi
Had the problem yesterday morning. Dealer states that it's a 3rd party issue as the injectors where supplied somebody else and MB just fitt them.
They state that they have stopped production until this issue can be resolved. It will take approx 4 weeks to have the new / improved injections fitted in my E250 in the meantime I'll have to suffer a loan S class !

No it is most certainly a Mercedes issue! Your dealer's logic would apply to nearly all the thousands of parts in your car. Incidentally I don't suppose the dealer forewarned you in any way before you bought it either.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

MB seem to have production problems with injectors. I don't know whether its MB chasing new legislation on emmissions that is the problem or rushing the design and production process of what are quite complex items. I think if some baffoon told me it wasn't a MB problem, but a supplier problem, I would have had to restrain myself.

These cars are supposed to be tested over millions of miles afer all. Problems like this now appear endemic (Toyota) in the industry, too many new models and not enough quality.

 

[television]

I have just had my C220 towed with injector failures ...
I am wondering if they replace the injectors, as they say they are, does anyone know if the failure of the injectors could have caused other damage that would show up later, or is it a simple replace injectors and your good to go?

Just trying to understand long term implications of fault.

Cheers

Hello and welcome,,, the injector faults will not have any other effect on the engine or car, at least that is one good thing,, the one fitting them needs to be good at programming them to the ECU

 

[television]

MB seem to have production problems with injectors. I don't know whether its MB chasing new legislation on emmissions that is the problem or rushing the design and production process of what are quite complex items. I think if some baffoon told me it wasn't a MB problem, but a supplier problem, I would have had to restrain myself.

These cars are supposed to be tested over millions of miles afer all. Problems like this now appear endemic (Toyota) in the industry, too many new models and not enough quality.

I have just come back from a seminar on this,,it would seem that the cars were all tested on a premium brand of fuel,, a part of this seminar dealt with the manufacturing of feuls, and the is a big difference from the premium brands and some others,, this was also back up by ANSU that rebuild the injectors

 

[rothbury]

I have just come back from a seminar on this,,it would seem that the cars were all tested on a premium brand of fuel,, a part of this seminar dealt with the manufacturing of feuls, and the is a big difference from the premium brands and some others,, this was also back up by ANSU that rebuild the injectors

Were they implying that the thousands of cars that have had injector failures had them because they were using inferior fuel?? Surely the fuel quality in Europe is pretty consistent. Does one have less chance of a problem using BP
Ultimate diesel?

 

[television]

Were they implying that the thousands of cars that have had injector failures had them because they were using inferior fuel?? Surely the fuel quality in Europe is pretty consistent. Does one have less chance of a problem using BP
Ultimate diesel?

This was a supermarket verses say BP or Shell thing. there are various ways of making fuel, the supermarket fuel is a shorter process, and they make up for that with additives.

We had the chance to look at injectors run on different fuels

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

This was a supermarket verses say BP or Shell thing. there are various ways of making fuel, the supermarket fuel is a shorter process, and they make up for that with additives.

We had the chance to look at injectors run on different fuels

I find this situation amazing Malcolm. I thought you designed with lower grade fuel in mind and the fact that better grades of fuel are availalble can only be a plus.

I'm no fan of supermarket fuel and refuse to use it. I'm having a job convincing the rest of the family though, but needless to say only BP passes through the Merc.

I suppose we'll all look back on this and see it as a bit of a 'Toyota factor', too many models and too much development going on which affects quality and in the end your reputation.

 

[television]

I find this situation amazing Malcolm. I thought you designed with lower grade fuel in mind and the fact that better grades of fuel are availalble can only be a plus.

I'm no fan of supermarket fuel and refuse to use it. I'm having a job convincing the rest of the family though, but needless to say only BP passes through the Merc.

I suppose we'll all look back on this and see it as a bit of a 'Toyota factor', too many models and too much development going on which affects quality and in the end your reputation.

Well I have always argued that all fuel is the same, with just some differences on the additives.

I learnt today that supermarket fuel must have the additives, due to the quicker refining process to compensate.
I saw injectors that have only been used on branded and super market fuel, and there was quite a difference

 

[MB partsman]

Thats very interesting Malcolm, I have always held a theory that the BE problems were due to fuel quality issues, I know from what MB say internally that during testing no problems happened, it was only once the cars reached the wild.....
as a slight aside, you should see the boxes that the injectors arrive in!
very large, as the injectors are packed in masses of foam rubber, Im sure they are better protected than the rarest Ming vase!

 

[television]

Thats very interesting Malcolm, I have always held a theory that the BE problems were due to fuel quality issues, I know from what MB say internally that during testing no problems happened, it was only once the cars reached the wild.....
as a slight aside, you should see the boxes that the injectors arrive in!
very large, as the injectors are packed in masses of foam rubber, Im sure they are better protected than the rarest Ming vase!

It was an interesting day today, and many things changed my past thinking over fuels fot the past few years,, yes it all fitted into place, and made sense.

One thing for sure was that MB could not take on the supermarkets,,but now we know more about what is going on

 

[dieselman]

you should see the boxes that the injectors arrive in!
very large, as the injectors are packed in masses of foam rubber, Im sure they are better protected than the rarest Ming vase!

That's because the Piezo crystals are very fragile so could readily suffer transit damage, which also makes me wonder if the sudden failure is also sudden crystal failure.

 

[dieselman]

It was an interesting day today, and many things changed my past thinking over fuels fot the past few years,, yes it all fitted into place, and made sense.

One thing for sure was that MB could not take on the supermarkets,,but now we know more about what is going on

I'm not convinced about the fuel lubrication issue being the reason for sudden failure, but it has always been known that multi firing injectors will only achieve a short life relative to single firing ones.

 

[television]

I'm not convinced about the fuel lubrication issue being the reason for sudden failure, but it has always been known that multi firing injectors will only achieve a short life relative to single firing ones.

This was not so much about the lubrication as to the other contents of the fuel, It was all going to quick to make notes that make sense at home, I will wade through all of the paper that I brought back

 

[MB partsman]

That's because the Piezo crystals are very fragile so could readily suffer transit damage, which also makes me wonder if the sudden failure is also sudden crystal failure.

Exactly!
the fact that something SO fragile is used in a road going internal combustion engine does make me wonder how long the parts life will be at best!
after all, there is a far old explosion happening regularly within said engine......

 

[television]

They only open and close 7 times per stroke,, should last for ever

 

[rothbury]

This was a supermarket verses say BP or Shell thing. there are various ways of making fuel, the supermarket fuel is a shorter process, and they make up for that with additives.

We had the chance to look at injectors run on different fuels

Sorry Malcolm you reply was not very clear. Maybe you can be more specific when you've read your wadge of papers. Is someone (and if so who) saying that the injector problems are being caused by additives in the supermarket fuel?
Persoanlly i don't believe that as mercs are designed to run all over the world and in places where low grade fuel is used, and after all they were tested thoroughly. i thought that it was an ECU /injector issue where a rogue spark fried the injector. If it was fuel issue wouldn't we at least all be told not to use supermarket fuel?
incidentally what did the injectors look like which had used all the additives?

 

[Ted Harris]

Sorry Malcolm you reply was not very clear. Maybe you can be more specific when you've read your wadge of papers. Is someone (and if so who) saying that the injector problems are being caused by additives in the supermarket fuel?
Persoanlly i don't believe that as mercs are designed to run all over the world and in places where low grade fuel is used, and after all they were tested thoroughly. i thought that it was an ECU /injector issue where a rogue spark fried the injector. If it was fuel issue wouldn't we at least all be told not to use supermarket fuel?
incidentally what did the injectors look like which had used all the additives?

Since getting the car back I've only filled up at Esso, which is near to home, or once at Shell near my mother's house. Should I now avoid Asda which is near to work?

 

[Xtractorfan]

I think the fuel issue may be a red herring to try and shift the blame to a third party where no one without proper lab equipment can contradict the theory.. What would you do if your reputation was at stake.. and remember a few years ago supermarket fuels did get a bad press...
Whilst I dont like supermarket fuels.. I would doubt that any supermarket would mess with additives just to make fuel a few pence cheaper.. Now if Lidl were doing fuel I could believe it..